11 votes

Delegates?

Ron Paul's campaign without a doubt has more momentum this run than in 2008. One thing the good Dr. suggested and campaign for liberty is suppose to be working on and promoting is the political process. While we get upset at

the Lame Stream Media and their reporting, or lack of reporting when it comes to Dr. Paul and his campaing, how is the Ron Paul revolution doing in the delegates process? Do we have any gauge on that, any way of telling how the "foot soldiers" are doing? Which states are lacking delegate support? Which states have strong delegate support?

Without ballot access and delegates, or knowing how we are doing with those two issues, we have no real way of knowing how RP R3evolution will do this election, am I wrong?

Please advise.




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Idahoans need to be alerted: The process has changed.

TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE AND IT IS LIMITED:
They closed the primary, and have instituted a caucus. It is in Boise on January 6 and cost $30 to get in. It is a non-binding straw poll, but I think it affects the delegate selection.
I am NOT involved this time, I moved so can't run for anything anyway. If someone is working the process this time, please feel free to correct me.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

So what your saying is if Ron

So what your saying is if Ron can get the majority of the primary votes then we can go in and vote for Ron no matter how the Rep. party tries to tell us or force us to vote...!?

In primary states...

if Ron Paul gets a majority of votes in the primaries he will get either a majority or all of the delegates. No forcing involved. It's the rules.

A few states have hybrid systems combining in different ways primary results, caucus results and various other delegate distribution schemes (for example, in Pennsylvania a sizable portion of delegates are chosen in local public elections -- you have to run a public campaign to become one of these delegates).

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I'm taking weebles' side on this one...

Sandra and others accusing weebles of being an anti-become-a-delegate mole are off your rockers and I can say with a very high degree of confidence that it is YOU who are misinformed about the delegate system.

Now, I'm not just some random person on the internet who just woke up this morning and decided to get involved in Paul's campaign. I was an activist in 2007/2008 while living in Texas. I attended my local GOP meetings... many, many of them. I shook a lot of hands. I didn't brandish my Ron Paul paraphernalia at the meetings, but rather, engaged in intelligent and respectful dialogue about the issues and the candidates. I asked "loaded questions" in an effort to help long-time GOP'ers to think about who they were supporting and why.

I then went on to run for precinct chair. This is the lowest level elected position within the Texas GOP. Being elected as a precinct chair guarantees you a seat at the senate district convention where you will be interviewed by a committee who recommends you to become a delegate to the state convention. I was recommended as such and both my wife and I became delegates to the state convention. It is at the state convention where national delegates are chosen; an extremely competitive and political process that yes, very few are able to maneuver through. Neither my wife nor I made it as national delegates.

It is no matter though, because in the end, just as weebles asserted, had we been chosen delegates to national, we would have been compelled "by law" to vote for the candidate receiving the majority of the votes in the primary during the first round of delegate voting. Needless to say, there was only one round of voting at the national convention and all votes for Texas went to McCain.

weebles is absolutely correct in his assertions.

weebles is also correct (and in fact if you were paying any attention to his posts rather than just shouting back at him about being an insurgent) that being a delegate is not for everyone. Being a delegate IS very important however and you DO have a great degree of influence within your particular states GOP party politics. This is the true motivation behind why a Ron Paul supporter should want to become a delegate... to be a voice in the party for liberty and a return to truly conservative and constitutional principles. Becoming a delegate absolutely cannot be about mounting some kind of hostile takeover at the GOP national convention to nominate Ron Paul. Doing so would be a violation of at best, GOP party bylaws (this will get you blacklisted forever by the party) and at worst , your state's statutes (this could get you fined or jailed).

So yes, strive to become a delegate if you have the time, resources, commitment level and political stamina for it. But if you're just hoping to get to the national convention and then shout that you are nominating Ron Paul when the election results have shown that "the people" don't want him, then please... just stay home and go knock on your neighbors doors and talk to them about Ron Paul... that will do the movement more good than anything else.

Thank you..

for the affirmations from the land of reality... :)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

We were Ron Paul bound delegates to the RNC

And Idaho sent 6 of us. (8 really, we had 2 alternates.) McCain had 26. When Jim Risch announced our delegation, he acte4d like we were not there. (With the blessing of most of the other RP delegates.)
I went through that entire process, spent all that money, to not even be acknowledged as an RP bound delegate as the VOTERS HAD DECREED.
I tried to make the best of it and realized the State Central Committee is a feel-good prestige thing that accomplishes NOTHING. When the Lt Gov announced that they had control of the "Tea Party" I gave up on Idaho's GOP.
For what it is worth, I see almost no sign of RP support in Idaho, where he garnered 26% of the vote last primary - his best showing in any state, if I am not mistaken.
Sorry, reality is.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Idaho delegate selection rules for 2012....

"Tuesday 6 March 2012: All 32 of Idaho's National Convention delegates are pledged to Presidential contenders based on the vote in today's County Caucuses."

"Any candidate winning 60% or more of a county's vote will be awarded that entire county's share of National Delegates.

When neither candidate wins 60%, the candidates split the county's share of National Convention Delegates, in proportion to the candidates' county vote totals [Rules Article VI Section 4:]."

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/ID-R

How do these rules compare to the ones in 2008?

Were you from a county that McCain got less than 60%?

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

It's absolutely false.

A law can't compel anyone to do anything. All it can do is proscribe what will happen if you DONT do what it says.

In other words, do whatever you want at convention and then face consequences when you get home. Which, GUESS WHAT, there wont be any, because you'd win in court against prior restraint, despite what the law says.

So you are absolutely incorrect in your assessment above.

That said, what's more likely to happen is you will be in a minority of national delegate in the Texas state delegation. The delegation will select a chair and will select the chair from the majority.

Should you happen to be in the majority you will control the delegations vote. If you are in the minority, then you have a minority fight just like you do any any parliamentary meeting when you are in the minority. If you're any good, you'll win 1/3 to 1/2 the time.

Same thing would happen in the state delegation to the RNC.

The RNC will record as the delegation chair reports.

Simple as that.

The only relevant law in this case is based upon the fact that

the GOP is a private organization and as such can do whatever the hell it wants to in respect to nominating its candidates.

What you are describing is only useful where delegations are uncommitted or "soft-pledged" and where officially, you are free to vote how you want. THEN and ONLY THEN should you use procedure (by following it, not manipulating it) to win over more people for Dr. Paul from your state delegation.

Under no circumstances should you, or will you, be allowed to thwart their rules if you are a "bound" delegate. If you live in such a state, get active in party politics and get them to unbind the delegates. The solution is not to flout the rules.

You're missing a crucial point.

It's not the RNC that binds the delegates.

But...

the RNC approves each state's submitted rules and it is the RNC that runs the show at the RNC and they have the power to enforce the rules as they see fit.

The RNC is not at anytime bound or compelled to recognize any vote from any delegate that breaks the widely published and widely known pre-approved rules. And for most states it is trivial to immediately recognize the presence of even a single mutineer vote.

The RNC has full power to exclaim, "The rules are being broken. All Convention processes are immediately halted until the rule breakers either become compliant or are replaced with compliant alternates.".

There is no rule or law anywhere that forces the RNC to recognize or begrudgingly accept rogue rule-breaking votes. And a delegate that unbinds themselves contrary to the rules is breaking the rules. Plain and simple...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

You're right, it's the state legislatures, but who serves in the

legislature? Republicans and Democrats.

Many states even pass different laws for each party.

Some even run elections FOR the parties for their internal offices. (Louisiana is one such state)

(personally, there should be NO law governing the internal workings of any party - they are private organizations)

Getting involved in local and state Republican politics - either directly in the Party or via the State legislature will be the door you need to open to changing the law. Running for and winning political office is quite a task, and is likely already too late for this election cycle. But in some states, it is still possible to change the law for this cycle. The only way to do that is to have the ear of the legislature and the ear of those who already have their ear and who hold influence in the party.

In order to do that, you have to get involved.

Maybe you can't get it done this time around. But it doesn't hurt to get in there and plant the seed.

Of course, you don't do it while saying it helps Ron Paul. You do it because it is the right thing to do.

Eventually, you will secure the change of unbinding the delegates if you fight well and hard and true, maybe not in all states, but in some.

If you get really involved, you can make your way to national GOP leadership roles where the By-laws are written. Even if you have to go as a pledged delegate for someone else, going to change the by-laws so someone like Paul in the future has a shot via the delegate process might be worth it to you.

This problem will never go away unless good people get involved and try to make it happen. Use the process available. Crying and complaining solves nothing.

Dude.. wake up.. you're snoring...

The RNC is a real event in the real world. It's not a movie, tv show or a dream.

The leadership of the RNC is neither compelled nor bound to recognize the actions of someone who is breaking the rules of the convention. If you break the rules of bound voting they are not required to acknowledge it. No ghostly invisible force will move their muscles and vocal chords against their wills to tally or announce your rebellious vote. They know who is bound and who isn't and they instantly know you are breaking the rules if you deviate. It's not rocket surgery.

You recommend voting the way you want to despite it being a violation of the rules and then just face the consequences in court later. Well that is silly because they can do the SAME THING by just ignoring or replacing you and then later if it goes to court they will win amidst chuckles and laughter in the courtroom.

Worst case for them they can just call a halt to proceedings until the rule-breaking is resolved and have you escorted out of the building. Again, wake up from your dreaming. This is real life you are operating in not a Hollywood fantasy.

Last go-round Ron Paul said he would NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE any delegate vote of convention mutineers and asked kindly that his supporters who were predisposed to such nonsense to please cease-and-desist.

Anybody who defies the bound delegate rules of the RNC will just make themselves and Ron Paul look like buffoons who are trying to "hijack the democratic process" (what the national media accused Ron Paul of during the last election cycle concerning this matter) and it would be the OPPOSITE of Ron Paul's wishes.

Ron Paul believes in fairness and the democratic process. I find it frustrating and sad that you mutineering delegate-crazed zombies don't. And that you all seem incapable of snapping out of your delusions and apparent lack of a sense of ethics...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I'm fully aware.

And it's a numbers game.

Please read my reply again before responding.

The RNC will record the delegate vote as reported by the state's delegation chair.

Work backward from there using your knowledge and logic.

So..

you are saying that the delegation chair will report a vote for the bound delegate in compliance with the rules despite mutineers?

If so then my apologies for directing my screed in your direction. I redirect it to any of those who think they can get away with having their vote recorded for a candidate other than the bound pledge candidate in the first round. :)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I didn't say any of the above..

The bottom line is, whether inside or outside of your own delegation, if you have the numbers you win, if you don't you lose.

A crucial point I think you are missing is that it is NOT the RNC that binds delegates. Nor is the RNC a law enforcement agency of the states the delegations are from.

Honestly, take some time to actually read the rules. They're on the RNC site.

In most states...

the party nomination process is made part of state civil statutes/code by proxy statements contained in the state statutes/codes. Not true in every state but the majority of them.

At any rate, the RNC is not bound to recognize or tally votes at the Convention that break the party rules. Simple as that.

Perhaps the RNC doesn't directly bind delegates but they approve each states guidelines and rules and have full power to enforce them at the Convention. No state delegate of any rank can force the RNC to recognize votes that break the rules.

A "delegate" by definition represents a third party not themselves personally. And the overriding intention of the majority of states is for the delegates to represent the results of the wishes of the voters/participants of the primaries and caucuses.

I've slogged through every single state's statutes/codes sections regarding presidential party nomination processes and have also perused the RNC rules on the RNC website. Thank you very much. :)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Appreciate the info

I'm a young professional in Sugar Land looking to get involved in the local GOP. I believe we need to find a way to convert this grassroots cynergy into political will power. How can I best get involved?

Go visit your local GOP office

Your Fort Bend GOP county website is: www.fbcgop.org Go to their office and get to know their secretary... this person needs to come to know you by name as he/she will be your go to person to get things done. Tell them you want to get involved... that you want a list of GOP clubs in the area and that you want to know who your Precinct Chair is. You may get lucky and find out that you don't have one, in which case, you can put your hat in the ring to run for that office. That's how I became Precinct Chair and it's your foot in the door to the senate and state conventions.

Then just start going to all the GOP meetings that your schedule will permit and get to know people. You don't have to keep your Ron Paul preferences a secret but if you go in there with Ron Paul guns blazing, you are immediately going to lose credibility with the establishment old-timers.

Once you get involved, you will start to see ways to keep getting deeper and deeper in. Your first step is to hit that local GOP office.

Good luck!!

Thanks

I've toned down a little bit over the last few months. I just joined the movement around April, and was very angry for awhile. Once you actually see how much our constitutional republic has been undermined, you can't help but blow off a little steam.

I changed geers recently to start debating the issues instead of pushing Paul. Most people are supporters of Paul's policies...they just don't know it.

Appreciate the advice.

Think about who you are debating with.....

...are you trying to get them to vote you into a delegate slot? Then why debate?

People vote for people they KNOW AND LIKE.

Let that sink in.

People vote for people they KNOW AND LIKE, not people who win debates.

Let your ACTIONS speak for you, not your words.

My comments

were more about overall involvement, not so much becoming a delegate. If the goal were just to be a delegate, then affecting long term change (and thus, debating)wouldn't be much of a concern.

Frankly, I view getting involved in the GOP as a side job. My primary focus is the community I live in, as that is where I can make the most tangible difference.

another

bump

Hoot

There will never be any textbook type answers because every GOP group is it's own microcosm. There may be committees at tiny precinct levels where the selection process is done. First contact your county GOP persons, tell them how badly "you want participate in the defeat Obama" (never mention Ron Paul in any way). They will be accommodating in pointing you in the right direction.

If you are relativly young, the older members that have to be delegates are more than happy to get younger folks to take their place as long as the believe you'll tow the party line.

Sandra

I appreciate your knowledge and insight into the delegate process. I hope others are able to take from it and use it. I didn't think there would be a text book answer, I was really trying to get a basic idea of how many RP people might have got involved in the process this time compared to last time. I understand that last election, time was short and in many states it was too late for people to get involved. I was just wondering if we are still sign waving and texting our votes to MSM outlets or if we were actually involved and making progress. A gauge to measure that progress would be nice but seems it is hard to obtain. As stated before, from this post I am encouraged by what I hear about Nevada, Iowa and Louisianan, I hope that is a good indicator of the rest of the states. I am not as involved as I'd like to be and was hoping the rest of the RP supporters weren't as lame as me!

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The best thing to do is to join the republican comittee or volunteer for the RP party and go to their meet and greets. You will get more info on the process that way and you may help persuade comittee people who get automatic delegate status.

Yes, register Republican and

Yes, register Republican and attend local events.

In caucus states ATTEND CAUCUS and try to become a delegate to the state convention! This is the only thing that matters.

Seems no one is willing to answer the question, Hoot

I have emailed Campaign for Liberty, emailed RonPaul2012, asked several people, searched and searched on Google on how to do this, where to go - nothing.

I am ready, willing and able. Someone, anyone just please tell me how.

Thanks.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. ~J. Swift

I didn't think there was

a place to go to find that answer. That there would be any published data of who the delegates support. Who they are is public record from what I have been told on this thread. I was hoping however that people (RP supporters on this forum) would come here and maybe gives us an update. It wouldn't be scientific but perhaps encouraging. At least we would have an idea. Just hearing that Nevada, Iowa and Louisianan are looking good for RP was very encouraging. If you read below Sandra has been giving some good information on the process and how to take part in it. I still would like to hear from fellow RP supporters what they know about their state as far as how RP is doing, not the process itself. But it is good to have discussion about the process as well so as long as it is positive, I welcome it!

This is not known until the

This is not known until the state convention. Until then, keep recruiting grassroots to vote in primary / attend caucus.