2 votes

Argument against the TSA

Here's my suggestion for how to argue against the TSA. The apologists for the TSA always make the argument that if we take away the gropers and electronic strip machines and later a terrorist attack succeeds, the people will rightly blame those who tied the hands of the TSA. What we should do is:

1. Acknowledge that indeed there will be some small increase in the probability of a successful attack if we get rid of the airport Gestapo.

2. Argue that it is a price that is well worth paying.

First, remind your audience of the Fourth Amendment, a crucial bulwark against a police state:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Now, ask members of the audience to raise their hands if they would be willing to see the 4th Amendment struck from the Constitution provided that such an action reduced the number of auto fatalities each year by 2%. Hopefully very few people would raise their hands. (If many do, we are lost.)

Generously assume that the current airport Gestapo is sufficient to absolutely prevent any terrorist attacks. Now suppose we reverted airport security back to what it was in 2000, plus a no-fly list of people with clear terrorist connections. Assuming you're not on the no-fly list, you just go through the metal detector, that's it. You do not take off your belt or shoes. You don't go through a porno scanner or get groped. You can even take any size toothpaste tube or shaving cream can you want. With these reduced security measures I think it's fair to say that in the worst case we could imagine seeing one successful attack on commercial jets per year. (This is a generously high number, remember that both the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber were miserable failures.) One big jumbo jet going down is about 800 people dead, or 2% of the number of auto fatalities the U.S. has each year. So, AT BEST, throwing out the 4th Amendment at our airports has reduced fatalities by the equivalent of 2% of deaths due to automobiles. But the audience has already conceded that it isn't worth voiding the 4th Amendment for such a modest gain in safety.

Of course if this country had Ron Paul's foreign policy we would be far less likely to be the target of terrorist attacks in the first place. You may have noticed that the terrorists aren't trying to blow up Swiss planes.

Finally, if people still insist that any improvement in safety, no matter how marginal, justifies any action by our government, then ask them why they don't demand that the TSA do full body cavity searches of all airplane passengers? After all, the obvious way to get a bomb past the porno scanners is to stuff it up the terrorist's rectum or vagina. If a terrorist brings down a plane with a bomb secreted such in such a way, then surely those opposed to a full body cavity search will be held responsible for letting the terrorists get their way!




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People won't listen to reason

unless they see how the TSA fits into the larger context of moving America toward a closed, totalitarian society where they will personally suffer some kind of horrific experience.

To me, the TSA is mostly about compliance training and the calculated stripping of dignity. That's what they did in concentration camps to break down the will of the prisoners.

The TSA

is violating the Constitution in all kinds of ways already.
Even its very existence is a violation. Congress had no authority to create it.
It's all "color of law" usurpations.

The TSA needs to be abolished immediately, and I don't care what sort of whining and moaning comes out of it. If people don't want to fly without the TSA, then don't fly. I won't fly with it.

All this "everything is different in a post-9/11 world" is all horse-crap. Nothing is different, except that the tyrants have used the incident(which appears to even have been perpetrated by them) to further their abrogations of the Constitution and further tyrannize the people using fear-mongering tactics that they'll "die if they don't submit to the tyranny".

The politicians and bankers and MIC people running this scam need to be unceremoniously booted out on their collective asses, pronto. And if they refuse to go, more persuasive methods are in order.

The TSA incites violence.

Recall the Asian lady who twisted the breast of the TSA agent?
As tempers fray, there is likely to be even greater backlash against the TSA and some will prefer vigilante violence to faith in our fixed system of justice.

Cost/benefit

Fifteen thousand people die on America's highways every year, and no one flips out. But when a lot of people died spectacularly in one place on one day, murdered at the urging of an ex-CIA asset, the whole country went insane. It does not add up.

If terrorists crashed a fully loaded 737 every week, the average American would still be more likely to die an automobile accident than in one of the planes.

Think of how much the roads could have been improved with all the money that was wasted by the TSA and all the other War on Terror nonsense. Besides, just as poor generals fight the last war, the TSA is fighting the last terrorist attack. Now that the cockpits are secure, and passengers know not to sit and let bad guys have the run of the plane, what is the point? Underwear bombs? Shoe bombs? The TSA did not stop them, but they went pfffft anyway.

The tiny bit of extra security is simply not worth the cost in dollars, dignity, and Liberty.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

I want immediate Congressional Hearings on TSA operations!!!

It seems to me that the ‘nuts’ have taken over in DC and that’s no small exaggeration, when you think about how an Agency charged with protecting the population has turned their resources on that same population to humiliate and demean them into submission through invasive security scans and groping sexual assaults.

They should all be arrested!!! I’m asking for a full Congressional Investigation and Hearings to justify TSA operation and questionable behavior and demand immediate cease and desist of that Agency until their methods have been fully investigated and approved by Congress!

Their operating procedures violate numerous Bill Of Rights protections, especially the 4th amendment against “unlawful search and seizure without a warrant.... ". Our enemy is outside the US borders, yet the scrutiny by TSA is not on profiled terrorists from Arab countries, but directed inward focusing on innocent American citizens traveling domestically with no demonstrated profiled behaviors of a terrorist. So why are we suffering such abuse?? I want to know why TSA's Napolitano hasn't been challenged on this and the only way to do it is through Congressional investigation. They are not protecting America and that is their Prime Directive, is it not else why does TSA exist???

I have researched the x-ray equipment from a health and safety angle online and with colleagues, I’m a Safety Engineering Consultant whose worked over 30 years in Aerospace Engineering. The x-ray machines are known to expose passengers directly and indirectly to excessive health risks by subjecting them to 20 times the normally permitted levels for safe radiation dosages; Here is a report on such X-Ray equipment safety http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1290527/Airport-bo...

I refuse to be subjected to TSA's intrusive and dangerous health risks both from radiation and communicable diseases being spread from person to person during genital touches they call ‘pat downs’. We've been taught and teach our young not to allow strangers to touch us in a manner that is uncomfortable and we are protected by law against sexual predators; so any reasonable person would object to such searches if they were subjected to them any place other than being forced upon them as a condition to travel by air, where such refusal is also penalized with threats of fines of $10,000 and arrest, and TSA plans to expand their horror show into all public travel unless we stop them now!!!

The physical ‘pat down’ amounts to nothing less than SEXUAL ASSAULT that would be a FELONY CRIME if done anywhere else, so why is it permitted by TSA agents of questionable backgrounds and intelligence who may also be sexual predators masquerading within the protections of TSA.

Who are these people that would take such a job and what screening and training have they gone through???!!! Touching people's private parts unnecessarily is morally objectionable on any rational grounds, but equally as important issues of health and safety through unchecked contact with bodily fluids that raises the risk of transmitting highly contagious and communicable and sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS or Herpes to innocent travelers by TSA Agents. Only rats and cockroaches operate in the dark and run at first sign of scrutiny when the lights are turned on and that's exactly the behavior demonstrated by TSA; just try and film their 'pat-downs' and see what happens!!!!!

We demand accountability and oversight from Congress or immediately shut them down! We've had enough of their abuses.

I will not travel by air nor any public conveyance that TSA may choose to survey, because it infringes of my rights to travel freely and conduct my business as a professional where I cannot perform my fiduciary responsibility to protect and safeguard private materials in my possession from unauthorized agents. My work requires me to have NSA security clearances and all others I work with to have equal or higher clearances. TSA is NOT in that circle of cleared personnel or in other words they have NO NEED TO KNOW and that is the basis for all security issues no matter what level.

This situation is beyond unconscionable on so many levels it borders on insanity to even put up with this!!!

Stop TSA invasions of our privacy immediately!!!!!!!!!

could an underwear

bomb really bring down an airliner? just breaching the cabin won't do it. how big would a bomb need to be? seems to me a suitcase would be more likely. what happens when it becomes easier to blow ones self up in line? how many terrorists have been foiled by the tsa so far? i thought the point of suicide bombers was the "it could happen any place" factor. at the grocery store, the mall or a restaurant. i can think of only one group that subscribes to the "shock and awe" doctrine.
lastly, your right to be a COWARD does not supersede my right to travel unmolested.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

"Your right to be a COWARD"

"Your right to be a COWARD does not supersede my right to travel UNMOLESTED." Did you just coin that? Let's make it a bumper sticker.

I don't know whether a bomb

I don't know whether a bomb small enough to put in your shoe, underwear, or rectum could actually bring down an airliner. Of course, for Chertoff & co. all that's necessary is for people to believe that it's possible.

I agree 100% with your last sentence.

Is there any politicians or

Is there any politicians or non-airlines employee really in favor of the TSA.

The question I have for people, what if the TSA was a completely private organization hired by the airlines, as a group measure, to help protect flights? Would you be opposed to it then?

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

I would be opposed to a

I would be opposed to a private security organization if it in any way violated our Fourth Amendment rights. A privately owned corporation that simply does what the TSA currently does would be no improvement. Now if each airline chose its own security procedures, that could be an improvement. At least one airline might choose the "don't treat your customers like convicted felons" approach I described above. It would be the only airline I'd fly. I'd pay twice as much for the tickets.

You ask if there are really any politicians in favor of the TSA. Obviously, the answer is "Yes". I've only heard Ron and Rand Paul speak out against its abuses. Last year Ron Paul proposed a bill that would make it possible to sue TSA agents if they do anything that would be illegal if you or I did it. The bill did not pass -- obviously plenty of politicians are happy with the TSA. Indeed, apparently most of them are.

Sorry, what I meant was, is

Sorry, what I meant was, is there anybody BESIDES politicians or airlines-people who are "for" the TSA.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Unfortunately there are --

Unfortunately there are -- including one of my own brothers. While my sister and I won't fly until the 4th Amendment is restored in our airports I have one brother who is perfectly happy to stand with his arms raised and his legs splayed apart in front of the porno scanners. When shown the video of the 6 year old girl being molested by the airport Gestapo he said it was her parents' fault for not taking her to the scanner and letting the government goons see her naked.

There are a depressingly large number of people like my brother, who really believe the bullsh*t that we have to embrace a police state to save us from The Terrorists (TM).