Ron Paul Breaks With Mitt Romney: Corporations are Not People!
Submitted by bobbyw24 on Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:30in
Late last week, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (R) told Iowa fair-goers during a question-and-answer session about his belief that “corporations are people.”
[Watch: Mitt Romney: "Corporations are people."]
Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), who placed second in the Ames Straw Poll over the weekend, took a far different view when speaking with ThinkProgress. Unlike Romney and his own son Rand, Ron Paul argued that corporations are “obviously” not people. “People are individuals,” Paul affirmed. “They’re not groups and they’re not companies.”
Source: http://thinkprogress.org/...
Romney Stands Firm:
Romney Stands Firm: ‘Corporations are People’
Republican presidential front-runner Mitt Romney took a lot of flak from Democrats last week after he said that “corporations are people.” In a new web ad, the former Massachusetts governor sticks to his guns, Politico reports.
“Businesses are comprised of people,” he said in the video. “I'm talking about repair shops, and gas stations, and beauty salons, and restaurants. I'm talking about Apple computer, Facebook, and Microsoft. I'm talking about businesses that employ people.”
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/mitt-romney-corporations-...
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www.twitter.com/AbolishTheFed
What is ‘corporate personhood’ and why does it matter?
‘Sorry, you are not people, corporations. You do not have First Amendment rights of free speech. Get out of our political lives and our political world.’ It’s time to bring politics back of, by and for — to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln — we the people.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/what-is-corporate-...
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www.twitter.com/AbolishTheFed
The corporation
The text of the District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871. This is where congress most illegally formed unto themselves, a corporation. The rest is shall it be said; history....
http://www.nikolasschiller.com/blog/index.php/archives/2009/...
Corporations Are Legal Persons
However they are not people who have natural rights. Giving corporations the name people is just retarded. A legal fiction may have certain legal rights but it does not possess any lawful natural rights.
A corporation owes it's very existence to the people who created it by the movement of their hand on paper (signatures) and then filled it's hold with valuable goods (a corporation is a ship, that is their origin). A corporation is lent everything it has and owes it all back to it's creators/creditors. Any rights granted to a corporation are derived directly from it's creators rights and loaned to it from it's creators.
(It), a corporation, cannot ever become equal to it's creators (someone, people) to whom (it) owes everything.
A corporation is a derivative, a copy of a man's rights. However it is not the original Man and can never be. A corporation or other legal persons should not be given rights equal to a man and a man should never allow himself to be classified as a corporation (NEO ANDERSON, MR. ANDERSON) possessing only those limited legal rights dictated by another corporation. (unless of course you enjoy being felt up at the airport MR. ANDERSON)
To say that corporations are equal to their creators (people) is absolute blasphemy and idolatry to worship the creation of one's own hand.
This is THE problem we face from the Statists. They worship corporations/lies/make believe. They are out of touch with reality. People like Romney and the other Statists worship their fictions/lies/corporations, mere figments of their imaginations. If you worship lies you worship the father of all lies, Lucifer.
Romney is a nut.
Idolators, the whole lot of them.
A corporation is never equal to it's creator, man, period
God forbid the last Man on Earth should ever forget that. Best we all remember real quick who we are before the Romneys of this world eat us alive with their artificial nonliving/dead "people".
Does anyone else get the feeling this place is becoming the United States of Zombieland?
Debt is Money
Debt Slavery is Freedom
War is Peace
Corporations are People?
WTF is their world coming to? (IT'S) end?
The Oracle
Freedom a function of Law, not Politics.
I believe the principle you are referring to (several times in your post) is that the created can never be greater than the creator.
If in deed there is still a court of law based on the fundamental principles of law (common law court) in America, then in deed THE problem is the failure of the people to properly employ the court as remedy against unlawful intrusion by the state.
Remember, just because you think you know something about the law, and rant at the judge about it (and often patriots shoot themselves in the foot by making issue with the court, and not the prosecutor's position), will not get you anywhere but in trouble. Simply put, most don't know what constitutes admissible evidence, and how to move the court. Most, in deed, sight the constitution in their defense... This is a fundamental error, as the constitution is the law book for the state, not the people. Our fundamental rights are merely recognized by the constitution... not granted to us by the constitution. As such, the constitution is not our source of rights and freedom...
And so... freedom is not a product / function of politics, but a function of law. And thus the problem is not "Statists", but our own ignorance of the proper relationship between the 3 branches of government.
Ok, but you can't draw the conclusion from this that
Paul thinks corporations shouldn't be protected from government intrusion. Or that he opposes the Citizens United decision which allowed corporations such as the non-profit corporation Campaign for Liberty to have free political speech rights. When the left says "corporations aren't persons" they're trying to use that to justify government control over business. Paul should be more careful, unless there more at the end that's edited out.
You've been ZAMPED!!!!!!!
why should
C4L (or any other) have to "file" for anything? Why should my local churches have to "file" for special status"?
Because They Are Using Fed Notes
End the fed.
The Oracle
Belief vs Knowing
I believe you have commented before that the use of FRNs gives the government jurisdiction to mingle in our private affairs. I am well familiar with that supposition, but have never been given the justification/explanation/principle, let alone sources of authority that makes this so... I would be delighted if you knew the truth of your statement, rather than just believing it and then passing it off as being necessarily so.
The Jurisdiction Is Simple, All Creators Have Jurisdiction Over
Their creations. So the federal reserve notes are loaned to corporations, trusts, or other legal entities to provide capital and facilitate commerce. If you have a federal reserve note in your hand then the government presumes you are acting as an officer of the United States conducting official business as a government contractor.
If you are using another private monetary system like stamps, gold, silver, corn, then you are not using their monetary system and are not subject to it's jurisdiction.
It is the monetary system that determines who has jurisdiction.
Once private money (coin) was run out of circulation by fed notes everyone had to form a corporation to handle the public debt as a form of currency. No man can use debt as currency because it has no value to the holder who borrowed it only to the lender who lent it. So only a corporation can hold debt as a currency. So one by one the States set up federal corporations as they were simply conquered by the bank of England's debt based currency. Then eventually the last of the companies dealing in substance switched over to corporations using debt as a means of exchange until even the churches had to join the dead and form corporations to handle the shares of flesh.
It is all about capacity. You can act in a dejure capacity as a private man/woman and use your own credit or coin as a means of exchange. Or you can act as a public official disbursing the debts of the United States upon unwary inhabitants of North America to gather up goods and services for The Crown Corporation.
I hear they plan to send out 2.4 trillion more warrants into the land to gather up supplies.
When are the Amerucan people ever going to wise up that others debts are not money.
Hope my explanation helps. You want proof? I will try to get a transcript of a court case I just went through on what is money where they tried to get jurisdiction over me by asking if I use their federal reserve notes. That would have made me a federal employee in their fictional world subject to their fictional color of law statutes.
The Oracle
Loan?
If I have a hammer, and I loan it to you, it is indeed implied that you are to return the hammer to me in good condition. I don't know, but believe the Fed demands the same.
I am by all means permitted to place additional criteria (i.e. pay me 5c every time you swing the hammer - or you may hit as many nails as you like, but no glass) on the use of the hammer. However, such cannot be presumed. It must be so stated explicitly. I have not seen or been presented with any evidence that the temporary use of FRNs is subject to conditions over and above that of returning it in good condition.
I did read your post a few weeks ago where you posted a series of questions and answers, as it happened in the court. However, none of that suggested to me that the Gov had jurisdiction over FRN transactions. Perhaps I missed it...
The Federal Reserve IS The Creditor To The United States
Therefore the Federal Reseve grants the U.S. Government jurisdiction over it's currency and all "business" using those notes..
Pretty simple. You got it in your hand, you borrowed it along with all the unknown terms and conditions (all acts of congress).
The monetary system creates the jurisdiction, like it or not the U.S. Economy is a private merchant association and if you use their currency you subject yourself to their laws unless you can establish a variance in commerce.
The Oracle
Burden of Proof
Forgive me, but I don't believe you have addressed my point/challange. If there be conditions, they must be so explicitly disclosed. I have not seen nor been presented with any material evidence that the conditions you suggest are in fact attached to the use of FRNs. Please remember the legal maxim that the burden of proof fall upon him who affirms, for by the law of nature he who denies cannot provide any proof. And so... I deny that the conditions apply, as you suggest. And thus the burden falls on you to prove.
If in deed the prosecutor is proceeding under the auspices you suggest, then the burden falls on him (or her) to present the necessary evidence and laws to the court. Again, I have not seen nor been presented with any evidence that any prosecutor has ever explicitly proceeded on the idea that it has jurisdiction because of the use of FRNs.
I appreciate that it is common place among the "patriots" / "freedom fighters" to read into circumstantial evidence, (fringe around the flag, signing in purple ink, mannerisms of the Judge, etc.). However, it has been my experience that such only create conspiracy theories which might in fact not exist. I am well aware that there are conspiracies against the people. I am not naive. However, the administration of law should be objective.
Again, if you could sight an authoritative source identifying/articulating the conditions associated with the use of FRNs, I would stand corrected.
Quite Frankly I Am An Authority On This!
Commercial law is not common law. It is based upon fraud, deceit, fiction, coercion, violence, acquiescence. They use the pirate code.
So no they don't have to prove anything in their internal courts because they are courts of fiction and were the truth introduced then the lies would dissipate. These courts are not courts of record (public record) but private employee tribunals whereby you are presumed to be a federal officer distributing the debt notes in the conduct of your duties as a government employee.
If you show up there then they presume you are a government employee.
Yes it is all nonsense but that doesn't change the fact that they have been getting away with telling us lies for 30,000 years!
Go ask Julius Bragg, he can probably dig up something in the CFR or the UCC.
I know from experience and from years of research how monetary systems determine the jurisdiction.
Substance money means common law, debt dealing means corporate/commercial law applies.
This is why if you want to have common law rights restored in America you have to End The Fed and the use of commercial paper which is conveying the fictional corporate officer jurisdiction on everyone who touches that crap. I was once arrested with only a twenty DOLLAR bill to create imagined jurisdiction. You may say this is all nuts and I agree completely. Doesn't change the fact that is how U.S. Government operates, on presumptions. Every passenger going past the TSA is presumed to be a federal officer which can be searched or ordered about.
Until you rebut these presumptions without the United States the lies will stand.
Today I helped a friend write one such affidavit to rebut these presumptions. Then I wrote an avertment or negative asservation to rebut fictional charges made against me claiming I was acting as a federal officer on the public road. It is all make believe and they are experts at making you believe it. Lies if told over and over can create reality from a non reality. Imagine how many people have sacrificed their entire lives working for free thinking federal reserve notes were money!
Soon, when the global reserve currency is revalued billions of people will discover that they were only loaned the food, shelter, cars that the rulers provided to their debt slaves while they were needed to perform their "work". The debt slaves own nothing and are about to find that out.
The reality check the slaves are about to get is going to be beyond any nightmare before experienced by human beings.
The Oracle
Court Perspective
It is obvious that you are conceited. How you sign of as "The Oracle" is already clearly indicative of that fact.
My question to you, for which I don't need an answer, is: Does the court accept your self appointed authority as carrying any such weight in the administration of civil justice?
In deed, verbatim quotes from court judges might prove beneficial, but please spare me your "read between the lines" interpretation / make belief of court proceedings.
Blessings...
The Oracle Is A Name Given To Me Before I Even Heard Of DP
Because of my knowledge and insights into The Matrix. It is just a title for a character from the movie The Matrix which parallels our predicament and tries to explain it in an art form. If you read the script from the movie you get a whole different idea what it says without the "music video" to distract you.
You are still asleep if you are looking for answers from some sort of civil authority.
Do you even know where the one supreme Court from Article III in The Constitution For The United States Of America meets? The other bazillion courts out there are only for federal employees, no one else.
Find the one supreme Court if you want some "authority" because that is the only judicial court U.S. Government operates!
You are the authority.
There is no government in America.
There is no money.
There is no Law.
There is only a giant international gang of pirates and they only have power over those who think they have power over them.
Like my Oracle said to me, once you know, you know!
Those who don't know don't know and will fight you to stay ignorant.
I cannot help you unless you can find the one supreme Court.
The Oracle
Comments lost?
I had posted several comments on this post. However, all but one appear to have vanished... Grrr. And the one remaining reply comment is not associated to the correct comment. Is there a bug in the software, or???
Never Mind...
Never mind... They seem to have re-appeared...
Not all Mitts are people
and, not all Mitts respect individuals.
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"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself." - Thomas Jefferson
corporations are "persons",
corporations are "persons", obviously they are not physical human beings but they are entitled to certain "privileges" that all "persons" are entitled to under our current system of law. Its actually very detrimental to the philosophy of freedom, personal property and liberty, unfortunately.
Corporations a Product of Liberty
Yes, corporations are persons, and persons are corporations. At its most rudimentary level, they are in fact synonymous terms.
A fundamental principle (legal maxim) of civil justice is that "every person is a human being, but not every human being a person".
The existence of corporations are simply a product of liberty. A person is a persona. A persona is a role/act, and resides strictly in our mind. It is, if you will, a mental position. And our human mind can entertain multiple persons. Hence we have the right to construct for ourselves more than one legal entity by which we conduct our affairs.
i meant mostly the fact that
i meant mostly the fact that they have created the "U.S. citizen" entity thats been detrimental to our libertys and freedoms. I guess I should have elaborated more.
Yes. Thanks
Thanks for clarifying your comment. And yes, I totally concur with you!
But was that you that voted my comment down?
nope wasnt me
nope wasnt me
New video link
Hello all, since the video is unlisted and not easily visible I uploaded it to my account under public viewing. Hopefully this will help spread the video and possibly get it viral:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfTM8zc9jME
Shared
on Twitter...
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Corporations are not mere fictions
This topic of what is a corporation actually calls for a much deeper discussion. A sound bite labeling it one thing, or being something else simply does not suffice. If I may, I will touch on a couple of things.
First of all, one has to understand that the created cannot be greater than the creator. A corporation is created. You and I can, in our head, conceive of, and state the parameters of an entity (a unique persona). Identifying and giving the boundaries to a legal entity might be called a charter. By virtue of liberty, and our right to associate, we have unlimited capacity / right to create as many corporations for ourselves as we like. And so, whereas I create a corporation, it is not a product of the state. It is my creation. And I may, if I so choose, register it with the state for the purpose of obtaining legal standing in the court for civil remedy.
Now, unless the constitution prohibits it, the state also has the liberty to create subservient entities. And these entities might just as easily be called corporations. In this case, the state issues the charter. It is these corporations which the state has a right to regulate, tax, and otherwise limit their liberties.
The following is not a topic I have seen covered here at DP (I've been reading the DP 2 or 3 times a day religiously for 4 years now). However, I would strongly suggest that the essential legal point which is the current bane of the American people, is that US citizens are corporations created by Washington DC. To really understand this, one has to realize a few things: Sovereign states have a corporate body politic called the "public". The several states are Sovereign and that Washington DC is only a servant entity of the several states. As such, Washington did not have a citizen base until they introduced "US citizens" in the early 1900's. American nationals are the sovereign. And so... every US citizen is an American national, but not every American national is a US citizen.
Now, the next, and most important point to understand is that corporations are not, and cannot be mere fiction. A corporation consists of one (sole) or multiple (aggregate) individuals. Most corporations we relate to are aggregate. Walmart, for example, is a corporation aggregate, and it consists of numerous individuals. All the people together action as employees, comprise the real. That each employee acts (mental role/position) is the fiction. In deed, a corporation is the blending of the real and the fiction, giving the individual legal standing in court to obtain a civil remedy. If this point is a challenge, I would recommend you do a word search (including their etymology) on "corporation", "corpus", "incorporate" and "person".
If there be interest out there, I am more than willing to expound...
I make a distinction between
I make a distinction between what the State defines as a corporation and what a group of people working together to create a good or service is.
The State has created the concept of 'corporation' to be able to classify, regulate, and tax a particular group of enterprising individuals. The State has co-opted the idea of corporation.
If there were no legal thing called a corporation, people would still associate together to produce stuff. They would do it through some form of contract. One for shared ownership, one for employment, and so on. The State should then enforce the terms of the contract. So far, no need for a legal construct called a 'corporation.'
Now that this entity is in operation, the State has a vested interest. It wants to tax it and to regulate it. The State needs to define this thing first, so it calls it a 'corporation.' It also has other categories like nonprofit, small business, sole proprietor... The more distinctions it makes, the more control it has.
So, the corporation is a useful vehicle for the State to impose its will on individuals. And the more distinctions the State can make, the more the State can grow and justify itself.