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Christianity and War

by Laurence M. Vance | Via LewRockwell.com

This talk was given on August 20 at the Florida Liberty Summit 2011 in Orlando, Florida.

Thank you Campaign for Liberty for the opportunity to speak about a subject I feel so passionate about. I would like to speak to you today about Christianity and War. Although I am a Bible-believing Christian and a theological and cultural conservative, I write extensively about the biblical, economic, and political fallacies of religious people, and especially on the topic of Christianity and war. This is a subject where ignorance abounds in both pulpit and pew, and most of it willful ignorance. This is a subject that exposes Bible scholars as Bible illiterates. This is a subject that turns Christians into disgraceful apologists of the state, its leaders, its military, and its wars. This is a subject that reveals pro-life Christians to be two-faced supporters of wholesale murder.

If there is any group of people that should be opposed to war, torture, militarism, the warfare state, state worship, suppression of civil liberties, an imperial presidency, blind nationalism, government propaganda, and an aggressive foreign policy it is Christians, and especially conservative, evangelical, and fundamentalist Christians who claim to strictly follow the dictates of Scripture and worship the Prince of Peace. It is indeed strange that Christian people should be so accepting of war. War is the greatest suppressor of civil liberties. War is the greatest destroyer of religion, morality, and decency. War is the greatest creator of fertile ground for genocides and atrocities. War is the greatest destroyer of families and young lives. War is the greatest creator of famine, disease, and homelessness. War is the health of the state.

But modern-day Christianity is in a sad state. There is an unholy desire on the part of a great many Christians to legitimize killing in war. There persists the idea among too many Christians that mass killing in war is acceptable, but the killing of one’s neighbor violates the sixth commandment’s prohibition against killing. Christians who wouldn’t think of using the Lord’s name in vain blaspheme God when they make ridiculous statements like "God is pro-war." Christians who try never to lie do so with boldness when they claim they are pro-life, but refuse to extend their pro-life sentiments to foreigners already out of the womb. Christians who abhor idols are guilty of idolatry when they say that we should follow the latest dictates of the state because we should always "obey the powers that be." Christians who venerate the Bible handle the word of God deceitfully when they quote Scripture to defend the latest U.S. military action. Christians who claim to be dispensationalists wrongly divide the word of truth when they appeal to the Old Testament to justify U.S. government wars. Christians who claim to have the mind of Christ show that they have lost their mind when they want the full force of government to protect a stem cell, but have no conscience about U.S. soldiers killing for the government.

Many Christians have a warped view of what it means to be pro-life. Why is it that foreigners don’t have the same right to life as unborn American babies? There should be no difference between being for abortion and for war. Both result in the death of innocents. Both are unnecessary. Both cause psychological harm to the one who signs a consent form or fires a weapon. Why is it that to many Christians an American doctor in a white coat is considered a murderer if he kills an unborn baby, but an American soldier in a uniform is considered a hero if he kills an adult? In January of every year, many churches observe Sanctity of Human Life Sunday. Fine, but we need ministers who are as concerned about killing on the battlefield as they are about killing in the womb.

Much of the blame for Christian support for war must be laid at the feet of the pastors and church leaders who have failed to discern the truth themselves so they can educate their congregations. They are blind leaders of the blind. It is tragic that many so-called Christian leaders moonlight as apologists for the Republican Party. Many pastors are cheerleaders for current U.S. wars. We hear more from pulpits today justifying American military intervention throughout the world than we do about the need for missionaries to go into all the world. Our churches have supplied more soldiers to the Middle East than missionaries. It is appalling that instead of the next U.S. military adventure being denounced from every pulpit in the land, it will be conservative preachers who can be counted on to defend it.

If there is any group within Christianity that should be the most consistent, the most vocal, the most persistent, and the most scriptural in its opposition to war and the warfare state, it is conservative Christians who look to the Bible as their sole authority. Yet, never at any time in history have so many of these Christians held such unholy opinions. The association they have with the Republican Party is unholy. The admiration they have for the military is unholy. The indifference they have toward war is unholy. The callous attitude they have toward the deaths of foreigners is unholy. The idolatry they manifest toward the state is unholy.

The result of Christian support for war reminds me of a story in the Old Testament about two sons of the patriarch Jacob. In order to avenge the rape of their sister by some foreigners, the sons of Jacob told their leader that if his people consented to be circumcised, then both groups of people could intermarry and the rapist could have their sister to wife. However, after all the foreigners were circumcised, when they were sore, two sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, came and slew all the men who were incapacitated and spoiled their city. When their father Jacob heard about this, he told his sons: "Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land."

Christian armchair warriors, Christian Coalition moralists, Religious Right warvangelicals, reich-wing Christian nationalists, theocon Values Voters, imperial Christians, Red-State Christian fascists, God and country Christian bumpkins, and other Christian warmongers have made Christians to stink among the non-Christian inhabitants of the United States. After almost ten years of the senseless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, some of the greatest defenders of these wars continue to be Christians. The morality of going to war in the first place, as well as the number of dead and wounded Iraqis and Afghans, is of absolutely no concern to most American Christians. Every dead American solider is, of course, a hero, no matter where he fought, what his motive was, or how he died.

Support for the war on terror among Christians remains so pervasive that I’m inclined to agree with Mark Twain in saying that "if Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian." I’m sorry to say that blind acceptance of government propaganda, willful ignorance of U.S. foreign policy, persistent support of the Republican Party, and childish devotion to the military are the norm among the majority of conservative Christians instead of the exception.

Non-Christian Americans should know that Christian enthusiasm for war and the warfare state is a perversion of Christianity, an affront to the Saviour whom Christians worship as the Prince of Peace, a violation of Scripture, contrary to the whole tenor of the New Testament, and an unfortunate demonstration of the profound ignorance many Christians have of history and their own Bible.

The early Christians were not warmongers like so many Christians today. They did not idolize the Caesars like some Christians do Republican presidents. They did not make apologies for the Roman Empire like many Christians do for the U.S. Empire. They did not venerate the institution of the military like most Christians do today. They did not participate in the state’s wars like too many Christians do today. If there was anything at all advocated by the early Christians it was peace and nonviolence.

Aggression, violence, and bloodshed are contrary to the very nature of Christianity. There is nothing in the New Testament from which to draw the conclusion that killing is somehow sanctified if it is done in the name of the state. As explained by the famed nineteenth-century British Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon: "The Church of Christ is continually represented under the figure of an army; yet its Captain is the Prince of Peace; its object is the establishment of peace, and its soldiers are men of a peaceful disposition. The spirit of war is at the extremely opposite point to the spirit of the gospel."

There has, unfortunately, persisted throughout history the theologically schizophrenic idea among some Christians that mass killing in war is acceptable, but the killing of one’s neighbor violates the sixth commandment. I have termed this the Humpty Dumpty approach. But as the aforementioned Spurgeon said: "If there be anything which this book denounces and counts the hugest of all crimes, it is the crime of war. Put up thy sword into thy sheath, for hath not he said, ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ and he meant not that it was a sin to kill one but a glory to kill a million, but he meant that bloodshed on the smallest or largest scale was sinful."

Back before the so-called Civil War in the United States, a Baptist minister writing in the Christian Review demonstrated that Christian war fever was contrary to the New Testament: "Christianity requires us to seek to amend the condition of man. But war cannot do this. The world is no better for all the wars of five thousand years. Christianity, if it prevailed, would make the earth a paradise. War, where it prevails, makes it a slaughter-house, a den of thieves, a brothel, a hell. Christianity cancels the laws of retaliation. War is based upon that very principle. Christianity is the remedy for all human woes. War produces every woe known to man." There is nothing "liberal" about opposition to war. There is nothing "anti-American" about opposition to militarism. And what could be more Christian than standing firmly against aggression, violence, and bloodshed?

So when did the early church go astray? Undoubtedly, it was the accession to power of the emperor Constantine. When the empire allied itself with the church, it was the church that changed more than the empire. Instead of spreading Christianity by persuasion and being persecuted for it, some Christians began persecuting those who could not be persuaded. This Constantinian mindset is alive and well today. When Jerry Falwell said that America should chase down terrorists all over the world and "blow them all away in the name of the Lord," he was expressing a sentiment widely held by conservative Christians.

After Constantine came just war theory.

War is mentioned over two hundred times in the Bible. The overwhelming majority of these instances concern in some way the nation of Israel. This fact is extremely important, because the president of the United States is not God, America is not the nation of Israel, the U.S. military is not the Lord’s army, the Christian’s sword is the word of God, and the only warfare the New Testament encourages the Christian to wage is against the world, the flesh, and the devil.

But just war theory has nothing to do with war in the Bible. Christian just war theory began as the attempt by Augustine to reconcile Christian participation in warfare with the morality of New Testament Christianity. In its essence, just war theory concerns the use of force: when force should be used and what kind of force is acceptable. The timing of force relates to a country’s justification for the initiation of war or military action; the nature of force relates to how military activity is conducted once a country commits to use force. The principle of the just war is actually many principles, all of which must be met for a war to be considered just. A just war must have a just cause, be in proportion to the gravity of the situation, have obtainable objectives, be preceded by a public declaration, be declared only by legitimate authority, and only be undertaken as a last resort. A war that is not justifiable is nothing short of mass murder.

Yet, just war theory is untenable because it is difficult to know with sufficient confidence whether all of its conditions have been met, because some of its tenets are impossible to realize, because the criteria of just war theory are too flexible, because it contradicts itself in that it sanctions the killing of innocents, which it at the same time prohibits, and because it is used to justify rather than to prevent war. Indeed, just war theory can be used effectively by all sides to justify all wars. Every government, every ruler, every soldier, every citizen – they all think their country’s wars are just.

Just war theory says that a war is just if certain conditions and rules are observed. But how can you make rules for slaughter and mayhem? By sanctifying war while attempting to curtail its manner and frequency, just war theory merely allowed Christians to make peace with war. That just war theory is used to defend the war in Iraq shows just how useless it is. Waging the war in Iraq is against every Christian just war principle that has ever been formulated.

But not only is just war theory not based on Scripture, it is rooted in blind obedience to the state, which, the last time I read my Bible, is not a tenet of New Testament Christianity. War is nothing but a form of state-sponsored violence. It is the state that decides to go to war, not the people, most of whom want nothing to do with war. The state always claims that it is acting defensively, has the right intention, has the proper authority, is undertaking war as a last resort, has a high probability of success, and that a war will achieve good that is proportionally greater than the damage to life, limb, and property that it will cause. What good is just war theory if it can be used by both sides in a conflict?

After just war theory came the Crusades, where conquest was conflated with conversion, followed by the continual wars of religion among European Christians. The ultimate picture of the folly of war is the bloodbath perpetrated by the Christian nations in World War I. From 1914 to 1918, in battle after senseless battle, Christian soldiers in World War I shot, bombed, torpedoed, burned, gassed, bayoneted, and starved each other and civilians until twenty million of them were wounded and another twenty million lay dead. The conduct of Christians in the United States before and during the Great War was shameful.

But even without the massive government propaganda campaign that was undertaken during World War I, we see the same shameful conduct among Christians regarding the war in Iraq. When Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq in March of 2003 with the announcement that our cause was just, Christians lined up in droves to support their president. They enlisted in the military. They put "W" stickers and yellow ribbons on their cars. They implored us in church to pray for the troops. They began reciting their patriotic sloganeering, their God-and-country rhetoric, and their "obey the powers that be" mantra. They dusted off their books on just war theory. They denounced Christian opponents of the war as unpatriotic, anti-American, liberals, pacifists, traitors, or Quakers.
Why? Why have so many religious people gotten it so wrong? As I have explained in many of my articles on Christianity and war over the years, there are many reasons: thinking that the war in Iraq was in retaliation for the 9/11 attacks, believing that Saddam Hussein was another Hitler, supposing that Iraq was a threat to the United States, seeing the war in Iraq as a modern-day crusade against Islam, assuming that the United States needed to protect Israel from Iraq, viewing Bush as a messiah figure, equating the Republican Party with the party of God, blindly following the conservative movement, deeming the American state to be a divine institution, failing to separate the divine sanction of war against the enemies of God in the Old Testament from the New Testament ethic that taught otherwise, having a profound ignorance of history and primitive Christianity, reading too much into the mention of soldiers in the New Testament, possessing a warped "God and Country" complex, holding a "my country right or wrong" attitude, and adopting the mindset that brute force is barbarism when individuals use it, but honorable when nations are guilty of it.

I believe the two greatest reasons religious people have gotten things so wrong are American exceptionalism and American militarism.

Many Christians are guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry. They have bought into a variety of American nationalism that has been called the myth of American exceptionalism. This is the idea that the government of the United States is morally and politically superior to all other governments, that American leaders are exempt from the bad characteristics of the leaders of other countries, that the U.S. government should be trusted even as the governments of other countries should be distrusted, that the United States is the indispensable nation responsible for the peace and prosperity of the world, that the motives of the United States are always benevolent and paternalistic, that foreign governments should conform to the policies of the U.S. government, that most other nations are potential enemies that threaten U.S. safety and security, and that the United States is morally justified in imposing sanctions or launching military attacks against any country that refuses to conform to our dictates. These are the tenets of American exceptionalism.

The result of this American exceptionalism is a foreign policy that is aggressive, reckless, belligerent, and meddling. This is why U.S. foreign policy results in discord, strife, hatred, and terrorism toward the United States. We would never tolerate another country engaging in an American-style foreign policy. How many countries are allowed to build military bases and station troops in the United States? It is the height of arrogance to insist that the United States alone has the right to garrison the planet with bases, station troops wherever it wants, intervene in the affairs of other countries, and be the world’s policeman, fireman, social worker, security guard, mediator, and babysitter.

The other reason religious people have gotten things so wrong is American militarism. Americans love the military, and American Christians are no exception. There is an unseemly alliance that exists between certain sectors of Christianity and the military. Even Christians who are otherwise sound in the faith, who treasure the Constitution, who don’t support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and who oppose an aggressive U.S. foreign policy get indignant when you question the institution of the military. It doesn’t seem to matter the reason for each war or intrusion into the affairs of another country. It doesn’t seem to matter how long U.S. troops remain after the initial intervention. It doesn’t seem to matter how many foreign civilians are killed or injured. It doesn’t seem to matter how many billions of dollars are spent by the military. It doesn’t even seem to matter what the troops are actually doing – Americans in general, and American Christians in particular, believe in supporting the troops no matter what. Americans are repulsed by the serial killer who, to satisfy the most basest of desires, dismembers his victims; but revere the bomber pilot in the stratosphere who, flying above the clouds, never hears the screams of his victims or sees the flesh torn from their bones. Killing women and children from five feet is viewed as an atrocity, but from five thousand feet it is a heroic act. It is sometimes suspicious when a soldier kills up close, but never when he launches a missile from afar.

Christians of all branches and denominations have a love affair with the military. To question the military in any way – its size, its budget, its efficiency, its bureaucracy, its contractors, its weaponry, its mission, its effectiveness, its foreign interventions – is to question America itself. One can condemn the size of government, but never the size of the military. One can criticize federal spending, but never military spending. One can denounce government bureaucrats, but never military brass. One can depreciate the welfare state, but never the warfare state. One can expose government abuses, but never military abuses. One can label domestic policy as socialistic, but never foreign policy as imperialistic.

It is the U.S. government that is the greatest threat to American life, liberty, property, and peace – not the leaders or the military or the people of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, or Yemen. And as James Madison said: "If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." Christians should vigorously dissent the next time some warmongering politician says there is some great evil in the world that must be stamped out by the U.S. military. As John Quincy Adams said: "America . . . goes not abroad seeking monsters to destroy." Christians should stop regarding the state’s acts of aggression as benevolent. Christians should stop presuming divine support for U.S. military interventions. And because just war theory merely allows Christians to make peace with war, they should reject it just as they would any theory of just piracy or just terrorism or just murder. It is Christians that should be leading the way toward peace and a foreign policy of nonintervention. It is Christians that should be leading the way toward the ideas of Ron Paul.

Copyright © 2011 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.

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He failed to mention the main factor

leading many Christian's to support unjust war, their being manipulated by their minister's use of the fraudulent Scofield Reference Bible. This anti Christian fabrication ties the Old Testament teachings with the New Testament, that a well rehearsed minister can use to sell unjust war and the scam of Zionism. What most Zionist Christian's fail to do is research how these teachings came about or who Cyrus Scofield really was. If someone has enough snap to question what they are being taught, the minister will sell them on another Scofield creation of dual prophecies by use of dispensationalism. This had to be sold to the seminaries in order for Scofield's fabrication to seem logical. However, even if they question the method, they fail to research Scofield and who was backing him. Scofield was a lifelong con artist who claimed to be an attorney, who went to prison for forging documents in a railroad scam. Now, we look to who was behind his Bible fabrication and how it was pushed into prominence. Hint, it was done by the same banking cartel behind the Fed. It was the House of Rothschild and their agents Uttermeyer, Schiff, Baruch, Morganthau and clan who funded, aligned Scofield with the major Christian associations, washed his background, made him a minister, and got the most respected publisher Oxford to sell it. Zionism was created by Theodore Herzl as a political movement to make a homeland for the Ashkenazi Jews, and Palestine was only just one of several places he came up with. Actually, before the Rothschild's stepped in thinking how much money they could make from the eternal conflicts by establishing Palestine as the homeland, Herzl was building the Uganda Plan. So, as research shows, Zionism is just as big of a sham as the Fed, and also plagues our nation as much.



they have many documents that support what you have written above. hear the 5 minute show -
"Cause of our conflict - -"

about $cofield

thanks for your informative post.

AND JEWS wrote

the old testiment, Don't forget that fact. I bet you trust KING JAMES too. GEE who can you trust?
Guess what; Jews pay taxes and they are citzens with a vote.
Cry me a river, you got Scofield on your brain .
The term dispensation is in the Bible and I'm not giving the verses again. So, quite lieing.

VERY good post...

he puts into words the things that I have been thinking about and wondering how this could be.

I never understand why

Christians during the Bush-presidency supported him so much. Obviously not all of them did, but I was always urked that so many did. I just couldn't believe it. I am not a Christian nor do I believe in a god - but these people said they did and still supported Bush and the wars he started (with the people behind him pulling the strings).

I really hope the Christians do the Christian thing this time around and vote for the only peace candidate in the race. If you actually believe this Jesus stuff, then I can't see how you can vote for any other candidate.

You can have Christian Just War Theory and Fatwas

but you've never heard of anything of the like coming out of a the "Deist" or "Taoist" or Anarcho-Atheist realms of thinking.

This is why I say only Deist-like or Taoist-like or Anarcho-Atheis-like people will raise an individualist-society; they are free from organizationalism.

A Christian-Individualist who is church-based and denominational oxymoronic or ignorant of church history and how so often was on the "wrong-side" of liberty -- whereas a Deist is almost certainly an individualist (if not) he is amendable.

But a chruch-going-Christian has their "faith" tied to their denomination as the premise of each denomination is that they are "more right" and thus "more certain" to getting into Heaven.

You can't have "more right" attached to dogmatic absolutist philosophies and not believe the opposite -- that the "other guys" are off-basis and thus going to hell. An absolutist philosophy is just that -- absolute.

Catholics believe all other Christians are "off" that you can only get to God by way of the Church -- do you "respect" someone who you believe is going to hell, who you believe is following an anti-christ founder; just because he also wants zero-taxes, hahahaha?

The only way you can be "cool" with that guy is to not think about him, ignore the call to conversion, or not be "serious" about your faith. Summertime-Christian.

Martin Luther -- Father to all Protestantism "hated" the Jews (as have most Popes) and thought the Pope to be the anti-christ. Catholics thought just as foul about Luther.

Pope is supposed to be the "Vicar of Christ" -- that's a pretty powerful statement -- metaphysically speaking. Who is Martin Luther if he knows in absolute terms that the Pope is the Anti-Christ, hahahaha. He must be of "higher" certification, right?

Having an absurdist base of reasoning does not lead "fully" to a free-market thinking mindset -- thus the thought that "voting and lobbying" could possibly ever bring about "liberty?"

I have voted 3 times (or will) since '88 -- RP, RP, and RP. I vote for nothing or no one else; my purpose of lobbying and voting for this man is "educational" not electoral.

We now have the tech to have "rule" in Open Source and in Real Time. Eventually people will be tech-savvy enough to realize this. Logic-minded enough.

Which is why I say -- Deist-types, Taoist-types, and Atheist-types will be the founders of the free-society in "real" (non-voting / non-lobbying) terms.

Everything I just said is supported by all human history -- with a little observation and extrapolation based on Mises Consumer-Sovereignty and the works of other "good" men (non-heroworship).

Blessed are the peacemakers

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” Who are these? Those who imitate the Divine love of others, who show forth in their own life the characteristic of the Divine energy. The Lord and Giver of good things completely annihilates anything that is without affinity and foreign to goodness. This work He ordains also for you, namely to cast out hatred and abolish war, to exterminate envy and banish strife, to take away hypocrisy and extinguish from within resentment of injuries smoldering in the heart. Instead, you ought to introduce whatever is contrary to the things that have been removed. For as light follows the departure of darkness, thus also these evil things are replaced by the fruits of the Spirit: by charity, joy, peace, benignity, magnanimity, all the good things enumerated by the Apostle (Gal 5:22). How then should the dispenser of the Divine gifts not be blessed, since he imitates the gifts of God and models his own good deeds on the Divine generosity?

But perhaps the beatitude does not only regard the good of others. I think that man is called a peacemaker par excellence who pacifies perfectly the discord between flesh and spirit in himself and the war that is inherent in nature, so that the law of the body no longer wars against the law of the mind but is subjected to the higher rule and becomes a servant of the Divine ordinance.

– St. Gregory of Nyssa

Nothing is so characteristically Christian as being a peacemaker.

– St Basil the Great, Letter 114

Peacemakers follow Christ

they hear HIS Voice and they follow HIM; because Christ is in their HEART, they are PEACEMAKERS.
Without Christ in your HEART, you are not a Peacemaker, nor do you hear HIS voice, nor do you follow HIM. Therin, if you are not making Peace you better check your HEART.
Christ is the PRINCE of PEACE towards all mankind. HE also is NOT slack conserning HIS promises. The backslider shall be RESTORED.You have to be HIS to be a backslider. Israel is in a backsliden condition untill Christ restores them at the last trump. The Nation has some Chastisement to endure.
At the same time, Nations shall be judged on how they treat those who are GOD's. The land has NOTHING to do with it. The LAND is Christ's by inheritance as KING. The whole EARTH is HIS. HE created it.

Good article

Jesus was pretty clear on this topic...

"Turn the other cheek" and all that...

YES but

only untill the LAST TRUMP. Then HIS Mercy ends. The Father then judges the NATIONS. And all judgement has been given to the SON. His reward will be with HIM. What will your reward reap? Every believer and unbeliever reap a reward.
A reward for the law, or a reward for GRACE. Noah found GRACE. That was long ago, but you can find it TODAY.

That's a powerful article....

...perfectly targeted, and loaded with potential. What a great piece to reproduce, fold into leaflets, and deliver to every car windshield in every church parking lot on a Sunday morning. That kind of action/distribution on a major scale would open the eyes of countless people.

What does this have to do

What does this have to do with the election?

This thread has everything to do

with the election. This thread is bringing people together, peacefully, with civil discussion. Dr. Paul's message has been one of peace, understanding, and rational exchange - which is what has been happening here. May it be an example for those who are still unsure of Dr.Paul and his supporters.... Are there really so many other places where such sensitive topics are discussed in such a reasonable manner? Just a thought.


Ya, I think I disagree with

Ya, I think I disagree with this article. I think there is a Christian Just War theory, though it sure ain't the war in the Middle East, if a nation attacks us, I have a duty to protect my family and property.

"You must be frank with the world; frankness is the child of honesty and courage...Never do anything wrong to make a friend or keep one...Above all do not appear to others what you are not" - Robert E. Lee, CSA

The Middle East wars certainly are NOT Christianities WARS.

They are NWO and NATO WARS. Has nothing to do with Christ.
Christ is NOT afraid of terroists or terrorism.



Self defence and/or private defence

This issue should be viewed upon at this principle imo. I really do not think the debate should be around Christianity as so much but common sense.

A strong defence makes a good peace.

ie. modern day countries like Switzerland, Taiwan, Israel, and North and South Korea, and Afghanistan. These countries could not possibly take a war to another country except for perhaps Israel for a short time, but whomever attacks them is going to pay a hell of a price.

This is why the US should bring its forces home like RP says and focus upon more national defence.


Two points of contention.

Two points of contention. The first, that the Just War theory is not based on Scripture. Unless you are rooted in the Sola Scriptura Theory, you realize that every situation that presents itself today is not addressed in the Bible. There is no mention of stem cell research. These situations need to be deduced based on what is in Scripture (and Sacred Tradition, unless you follow Sola Scriptura - in if you do, where do you find Sola Scriptura in the Bible?).

The Just War Principle is valid. The problem today is that we have allowed our public servants to keep us in the dark. We have allowed them to use the idea of "national security" to mask their words and deeds. In this nation, we the people are in charge, not our public servants. The idea that THEY have some sort of mandate to rule in our place is an assault on our Constitution. They work for us, not the other way around. We need to know everything they do because history has shown that they cannot be trusted.

The second point is the idea that the US Government is somehow at fault. The US Government's actions are defined by the Constitution. When elected or appointed public servants violate their oaths to the Constitution, when they violate the law, their actions are their own, not those of the US Government.

By now we have all heard that supposedly the president thinks he has the authority to have someone, even an American citizen assassinated without a trial. Should he do this, he and whoever carries out the act will be guilty of murder. Nowhere in the Constitution is the president given that power. And the Congress sure as hell can't give it to him.

When Congressmen get caught embezzling campaign funds, their actions are not the actions of the US Government, they are their own. Even if they claim that it's THEIR money.

ty for the post

Can't speak about scripture, but the rest is spot-on. Thanks!

This man should see this

This man should see this video...he would change his tune!


The FOURTH verse of The Star Spangled Banner (The verse we were never taught).

Also here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0fQd858cRc&feature=player_em...

You have to understand that fallen angels came to earth

and tried to inbreed and thwart Christainity by polluting the holy bloodline through which Christ was born. There were known as gaints and men of old and renown. (Jude 1)God ordered the killing of certain people's in order to protect that bloodline. Like the Canaanites.

I know it sounds weird, but if you read the story of Noah, that is what the flood was all ab out. Jesus talkes about the end times which will be like it was in the days of Noah where people will be "giving and taking in marriage".

However, I also believe the Kenites have infilltrated our government and now use war for their own profits from both raising the national debt and the military industrial complex.

for Ralph Waldo

Can you recommend additional readings/literature regarding the Kenites in the last paragraph of your comment, please? (sincere request!) Thanks!


livefree is telling you correctly.

If you want to learn from a world class scholar who understands history and the Bible as well as knows about the Federal Reserve, check out Murray, he is also on the internet via Shepherd's Chapel.

Check local listings and

Check local listings and cable for, "Shepards Chapel". Available five days a week, Mon-Fri. Also suggested reading, anything by, E. Raymond Capt.

ty livefreordie

Can't afford cable teevee, but will look up the book. Thanks!

When i came to understand

When i came to understand what Genesis 6 was really all about it changed everything!

If we would follow

the rules, this would be much easier...

Deuteronomy 20

10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

13 And when YaHUaH thy Alahym hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which YaHUaH thy Alahym hath given thee.

Deuteronomy 27:25
Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person.


Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

They've been duped by the state

I am a member of a very conservative church, and can attest to the terrible impact the republican party has had on Christians. We've forgotten so many things...elements of our faith that define our intended nature. It's obvious from the behavior of Christ and 1st century Christians that we were never intended to act and believe as we do now.

Love Your Enemies - Prayer Made, Prayer Answered

What Stephen did is entirely contrary to what many in the Republican party are teaching. And Stephen is part of the story of how we got one of our greatest apostles, who was a murderer of Christians before then.

Jesus said love your enemies. And Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross for us.

Acts 8:54-9:1
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I've used that scripture

before to show how one's heart is revealed in action. The Jews in Acts 2 heard a very similar sermon, but instead of "stopping their ears", they asked, "what must we do".

I feel like we face a similar problem today. Instead of honestly looking at the issues, people want to plug their ears and ignore the truth.