-33 votes

Hey Ron Paul Fans: Hope You Know That If America Stopped Being The World's Policeman, America's Economy Would Collapse

Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry | Aug. 23, 2011, 4:32 AM |

Ron Paul doesn't just think the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a mistake. He's an isolationist: he thinks America shouldn't be the world's policeman. He thinks America shouldn't have troops abroad and shouldn't use its military except in cases of self-defense.

Here's the problem: this would wreck the US economy, and the world economy.

And isolationists in general, and Ron Paul in particular, don't seem to grasp that.

Here's the thing: when isolationists talk about America being the "world's policeman", they think about foreign wars like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. That's what mobilizes people's imagination for very obvious reasons: it's where people die. But foreign wars are by far the least important part of America's duty as the world's policeman.

What matters about America being the world's policeman, and America's troops abroad, is all the troops that don't do any fighting.

From bases in Europe, the Middle East and Asia, the US military protects the world's shipping lanes, making sure the clockwork of the global economy runs smoothly and goods and oil can be shipped to and back. This is the part of the global American military footprint that actually matters, not the wars.

These wars may be very bad ideas, but Ron Paul and his ilk don't just want to end those wars. They want to end America's global military hegemony.

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ecorob's picture

the American economy would not collapse...

but the military industrial complex would take a hit and that "hit" would translate to lower taxes for the American tax slaves and a major BOOST to the rest of the economy as our military personnel would be spending their paychecks at home

demolay, how does it feel to be the ONLY one on your side of the equation? doesn't it make you question your stance?
unless, of course, you, yourself, depends upon this police state for a means of making a living

if you do, i suggest you change careers as this war "party" will soon come to a bust

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry replies, and I reply to him...

Bonjour Pascal-Emmanuel,

Are you mistaking mercantilism for trade? The leviathan (state) is not needed for a free, voluntary contracts for goods or services in which all parties benefit. Coercion / force (such as piracy) or fraud is another matter. Does a USA vendor or a vendor in France for that matter use the military to trade with a vendor that happens to be in Brazil, Russia or Outer Mongolia, etc.? France trades with Cuba, at least limitedly, the USA stupidly does not. Who is the isolationist? America, France, all nations will prosper with a limited state, look at your neighbor Switzerland with more a limited, burdensome government compared to the rest of the world.

The Federal government in the US confiscates wealth without due process of law, better known as inflation. This is the lynch pin of the welfare/warfare state of empires and has led and is leading to decline, always, as you take from the productive. Whether Athens, Rome, Spain, France, Britain and now the US, etc… A powerful economy is the best defense, so then you can build a military ONLY in an emergency such as WW II for a limited time with a declared war.

We need to return to a central government that takes at most 3% of the economy with honest / (US) Constitutional money so it can’t (or least limit) take through subterfuge, rather than 40% as in the US, we, as in all nations would prosper and humanity could advance more rapidly with a better quality of life for all….

All the best to you,

Craig
craigmfree@gmail.com
Virginia, USA
"The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." – Frederic Bastiat
“You can ignore reality, but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”
–Ayn Rand
Ron Paul 2012
From: Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry [mailto:pegobry@businessinsider.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:48 AM
To: Craig Scott
Subject: Re: How are blowing up countries and killing people good for economies, another words how is it creating wealth?

Hi,

Thanks for the email.

I agree that the broken windows fallacy is a fallacy. Which is why I said that my support for America's global military hegemony does not extend to supporting its foreign wars of choice. As you rightly note, the US is at peace with most of the world and trades with most of the world. Since the Articles of Confederation, that has involved the use of a Navy to protect trade. In the 21st century in a globalized world, you cannot have trade without a "Leviathan" to enforce the security of said trade. And the only country with the economic and technological means to do so is the US. (And being French, I don't particularly like that!) But I recognize that for all our sakes US global military hegemony is the lesser of many evils.

Best.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Craig Scott wrote:
Dear Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry,

Trading with all nations is not isolationism, warring on other nations does isolate them. Example: Are we trading with Libya today? Example #2: Dr. Paul wants to trade with Cuba. Isolation is the best friend of a dictator as we have done for the past 50 years and actually helps that low-life Castro, while lowering the standard of living for all parties.

Pericles’ polices led to the bankruptcy and defeat of the Athenian (1st & so called 2nd) empire. The discovery of the silver mine at Laurium during the time of Themistocles was key for saving Athens (the fleet – the victory at Salamis) from Xerxes’ conquest was the basis of her new wealth. This new wealth was exhausted with her empire. The Delian League was nothing but an extortion racket to continue the empire. Thus Athens’ (Sparta too) stagnation began and as she faded into history, first by the Persians as a vassal (again, also Sparta) at the end Peloponnesian wars, then Macedon, then with Rome as a backwater…

Queen Victoria empire was based on the wealth of (Adam Smith, hint)industrial revolution of the late 18th and 19th century, later slowing with the burden of empire with its growing bureaucracy. Finally leading to her bankruptcy with her Dreadnaught race with Imperial Germany (As the US bailed out all sides with its creation of the Fed, at least temporarily, until the hyperinflation and depressions of the 20’s / 30’s) . Again England is now stagnant as she also fades into history with her lower standard of living…

Please read Henry Hazlitt’s – Economics in One Lesson.

http://prawo.uni.wroc.pl/~kwasnicki/EkonLit/Economics%20In%2...

“The broken glass fallacy…”

I hope you are not a paid writer for the (stagnant) Establishment whom are hurting the progress of our civilization as they are afraid of Dr. Paul and the progress of liberty...

Sincerely,

Craig
craigmfree@gmail.com

Let's practice our assigning positive intent skills

and assume DeMolay posted this article, not to endorse it, but to share with us an article that prominently mentions Ron Paul.

Knowing how Ron Paul's views are being discussed or, in the case of this article, what memes some may be attempting to introduce is the kind of content I come to The Daily Paul to find.

We've had good discussions about it. We've come up with the retort, should this article's content make the rounds,

"Let's stop subsidizing the security costs for shipping imports, let locally made goods compete freely"

Good stuff

Defend Liberty!

Imperialism

Not only is your argument absolutely wrong, it completely goes against the founding principles of this country. Let me explain something to you, the military industrial complex and our imperialistic conquest of the world is not some profitable endeavor, it is being funded by China. We are borrowing money to supply protection to shipping lanes, multiple bases, wars etc. Not to mention, the notion of an empire is absolutely in conflict with what the founding principles of this country were. Another unfortunate piece of information is our economy is going to collapse regardless of what we do so whether you support imperialism or not is irrelevant as it is coming to an end. Not even Ron Paul can stop that but he can rip the bandaid off so we can have a fresh start, rather then slowly nursing it along and perpetuating the problem a little longer. Look at the fall of any great empire throughout history. It is always as a result of overextending themselves.

He wants to trade w/ Cuba and

He wants to trade w/ Cuba and no one else does. Yet Ron Paul is called an isolationist...hmmmm, makes no sense.

If Ron Paul is an Isolationist ...

If Ron Paul is an "Isolationist", as you so adequately metion several times, for not wanting the US military in foreign countrys, then so is Canada, and every other country on the planet that doesn't have its military in foreign countries. Why would the definition of isolationism have anything to do with a military forces presence?

rp311

Be a Meme Destroyer

I think this was posted as a ruse...right,DeMolay??? Ya trickster!!!Just had to get our hearts pumping!

Expect lots more of the same BS articles, depending upon revisionist history and failed memes from the past, from now on as TPTB are finally getting scared!!! HA! I love it! We need to just keep debating their stale arguments relentlessly. WE know history, and sound economics now thanks to Dr Paul. The smartest, most well read and passionate people out there are supporting Ron Paul!

TRUTH is POWER!

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

This article was

eviscerated! I do not think even one person who responded did so in a positive manner.

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

I'm guessing you purposely

I'm guessing you purposely use the word "isolationist" trying to piss us guys off.

I don't debate with people who haven't even done their research.

I like that quote from Bruce Fein, "limited government and war are antonyms, not synonyms"

Kind of sums it up, don't it?

oK?

K!

It's the wealthflow, stupid!

LOL so what?

America doesn't have an economy, period. It's all a big welfare state subsidized by China.

Truth is, Keynesians are morons who don't understand that an economy is not dependent on nebulous and arbitrary concepts like cashflow, they're dependent on concrete things like wealthflow.

You can have all the cashflow in the world, a trillion bucks a year perhaps, but if it won't even buy a cake of shaving soap, it's worthless.

Economies depend on the ability of people to provide each other with real and necessary things.

C + I + G = amateur nonsense

Zion'$ Agenda,

their are many like the author of the article above, who conceal the zionist agenda. thay are using american strengths / military to demolish all opposition to zion's agenda, whether it is nation, state, govt or religion.
they want to build the Temple on the holy Mount in JeruSalem, and to do that they have to demolish the Masjid al'Aqsa (mosque) existing on the Mount. Many people are distracted, but religion still remains a strong driving force, uses economics, politics, military, mass media, alliances, etc. e.g. Glen Beck.

This guy has no clue

The American economy is collapsing just because we spend too much on military. Did they quit teaching econ 101 in college or just journalism school? When I was in college they called it "guns and butter", too much money spent on the military/government and the private sector suffers. The writer, in a failed attempt to impress his readers with his knowledge of history, he brings up the Punic wars and Pericles, WTF? How about some more recent history, what happened to the USSR?

Ah Yes, The Return of the Broken Window Fallacy

Hmm. So diverting resources and manpower from useful activities like building roads and sowing fields and developing new technologies and directing those resources into making bombs, predator drones, and paying guys to march around and go "hut, two three four, hut, two, three, four," creates wealth?

What stupidity.

We Would Be Up To Our Eyeballs In Mercedes

If we weren't occupied by a parasite that stole six trillion Dollars worth of our stuff and blew it up on some corporate scumbags' wars.
Divide it out, six trillion divided by 309 million U.S. Citizens. That means that every family of four could have had an 80 thousand dollar car instead of the wars.

The reason for endless war is to destroy the industrial wealth of a Nation and keep it out of the hands of the working classes. Just read Orwell's 1984 he explains the whole war con.

The Oracle

The Libyan "Rebels"

"Al Qaeda is our ally. They've always been our ally."
-channeling Orwell

We Have Always Been Allied With Al Qaeda!

We have always been at war with Iowa and allied with Al Qaeda.

How people can't see the insanity of it all beats me.

The propaganda machine is truly amazing. The liars just howl like beasts until the masses believe.

The Oracle

I am pro-economic collapse!

So if we stop spending half of our economy on guns and butter, our economy will shrink to half of what it is now, but we won't have to fork half of our money over to the government.

That means we'll all be doing real work for a change and not subsidizing multinational behemoths, eroding our bill of rights, creating enemies around the world, begging China for subsistence, and we'll net the same amount of usable wealth in the end?

I'm all for it!

Oh and let's not forget there'll be less for the environmentalists to complain about too.

Sorry

but you lost me at isolationist.

ditto

.

Oh yeah, Ron Paul is "crazy,"

Oh yeah, Ron Paul is "crazy," Ron Paul says totally outlandish things that make no sense. In fact, if he's ever elected, the entire world will be completely destroyed by PIRATES.

And also ninjas.

So we must occupy, kill and

So we must occupy, kill and bomb people to keep a strong economy. With that logic, we should invade, kill and bomb more people to get a better economy.

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

You're quite wrong

Now of course, if we aren't self-sufficient, it would make things bad, but if we take Ron Paul's other idea of being self-reliant, we wouldn't have that problem.

We wouldn't need to get things from other countries, such as oil or staple items. AND, if we are trading things, our merchant ships would either be armed or have an escort with them. PROBLEM SOLVED!

And, besides that, you seem to conveniently forget that WE PAY OTHERS to have bases in their countries. They don't pay US to keep THEM safe, we pay THEM. Which means, not only are our troops putting BILLIONS into foreign economies, the government is taking our money in order to pay them to have our troops their.

Screw that. We need to stop funding other economies and allowing other countries to produce our goods. We need to produce what we need and what we can, trade SECURELY with other countries, and STOP FUNDING FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

Letters of Marque

Letters of Marque and Armed Merchant ship would allow open shipping without us being the policemen of the world.

Shipping lanes can be protected by the shippers themselves

Here is how it works.... Upon port of entry, they each can pay a Shipping Lane Protection Fee that would go directly to their own paid for protection service.

BTW, this is how the ships pay for Lighthouses, they pay a fee upon port of entry. That pays for the various lighthouses that they passed along their shipping route. So the same can be done with paying for MORE shipping lane protection.

Best of all, I bet the cost is far less than is our tax payer cost.

Shipping lane protection should be self funded.

Blog about that and spread the message!

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

oooohhh you're breaking my

oooohhh you're breaking my heart. If the US economy collapses because they have surreptitiously dumped all your money into foreign projects/banks (even though Bernanke denied this when asked by RP) chances are the rest of the world would flourish if they can extricate themselves from under this gigantic yoke squeezing the whole damn planet. As for bringing the troops home as Ron Paul suggests, this would stimulate the American economy instead of spending all their money off-shore. You have to decide if you're a globalist or do you believe in the sovereignty of the US and its citizens? If so then Ron Paul is the only politician out there that can deliver the goods even in the face of media, congressional, & establishment republican resistance and sabotage. In fact, I dare say, the rest of the world is more savvy about American politics than are most Americans and do indeed support the rare integrity of a man of Ron Paul's ilk.

The OP is text

found in the link provided.

UMMM...GUYS....

I'm not sure...but Demolay has been with us for almost 4 years...that's a long time for a troll??

I'm gonna look up their past posts..but it might be possible that they were just posting this article so we could see what the idiot author Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry wrote...not so much what Demolay actually thought.

Again, not sure...going to look at their past posts now..but just wanted to put that out there.

this could be true--

often 'people' respond to the things quoted on an OP--

without thinking what the perspective of the person posting might be--

there should be respect, no matter what, given to the OP.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Well, The Empire Of The DOLLAR Would Collapse If The Oil

Producing countries weren't intimidated into accepting worthless DOLLARS. If the world wide U.S. military occupation ends, The Bank of England's monetary Empire would collapse too.

The DOLLAR supports the global military occupation and the global military occupation supports the DOLLAR, both support the artificially high standard of living Americans enjoy based on NOTHING!

The question is not if the Empire is coming to an end but whether we will be the ones to shut it down peacefully or will the other powers on Earth have to bring down the British Empire by force.

I prefer option 1! Ron Paul 2012!

The Oracle

You forgot one option

The Empire IS coming to an end whether we like it or not. America is broke. We can not continue to afford maintaining our empire.