When they came for the Jews, and Gary Johnson
Submitted by BugMan on Thu, 09/01/2011 - 07:46You've probably seen the words below. They are about speaking up for somebody even though that person may not matter to us directly. It's about speaking up for what's right.
In the '08 elections, Ron Paul was discriminated against (even worse than now), barred from debates, even though he was beating some of the attendees in polls. We were outraged!
The same thing is happening to Gary Johnson. He's a successful libertarian governor, with better poll results than some of the invitees to future debates, yet he's being excluded. He's a proponent of freedom, with many of Ron Paul's same philosophies.
Imagine this headline: "Ron Paul supporters stick up for Gary Johnson!". This tells the public that we're not just crazy for Ron Paul, we're adamant about doing what's right for liberty.
You almost certainly prefer Ron Paul to Johnson, but shouldn't we stick up for Johnson in these debates?
I would implore the DP community to call and email the conveners of all future debates to include Gary Johnson. The more voices for liberty on the stage, the better.
----------------
Martin Niemöller
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
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Looks like he might drop out
Looks like he might drop out of the Republican Primary and run as a Libertarian.
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/09/is-gary-jo...
But I agree we should stand up for him. The Judge does. Oh and someone here was criticizing him on NAFTA and I remember him saying that he believes in free trade but doesn't know enough about NAFTA to support or oppose it. He said he favors eliminating tariffs...so overall I think he's good on that issue.
Foreign policy, obviously not as good, but probably about the same or slightly better than Rand Paul. No nation building, no wars. I think it was a slight slip up because he was being interviewed by that neocon rag. Everyone makes mistakes once and awhile.
The majority of his positions are very good and consistent, and his tenure as New Mexico's governor was really good. He also supported ending late term abortions, government funded abortions, and he wants to overturn roe v wade. while he may be pro-choice, he is still much better than liberals who are completely pro choice and want to keep the federal government involved.
liberty lover in Nor Cal!
aw
looks like we'll lose .5% of our votes to him
Gary Johnson is Jewish?
Thanks for the info? [scratching head]
Gary Johnson is pro-choice,
Gary Johnson is pro-choice, pro-NAFTA, supports the fair tax, and apparently supports humanitarian wars and aid to Israel. Here's quotes from an interview in Dec 2010.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/meet-gary-johnson-ron-pa...
“If there’s a clear genocide somewhere, don’t we really want to positively impact that kind of a situation?” “Isn’t that what we’re all about? Isn’t that what we’ve always been about? But just this notion of nation building—I think the current policy is making us more enemies than more friends.”
“I think that we really do have a vested interest in Israel and that we shouldn’t walk away from that interest,”
He calls for more "oversight" of the Federal Reserve. This is a far cry from a complete ending of the Federal Reserve's monopoly, which Ron Paul advocates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SldKv_Etihw&feature=player_em...
This foreign policy is much better than Hunt's and Sant's:
"But just this notion of nation building—I think the current policy is making us more enemies than more friends.”
Fair Tax is much better than what we have now, but that's another debate.
Few of us agree with RP 100%.
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
Good point
but his positions on issues are really not relevant because he will never poll above Ron and will never garner enough financially to make it past New Hampshire. If Johnson had support enough to make it as far as South Carolina would mean that he bankrupted Huntsman, Cain, Santorum, Gingrich, and Bachman to get there. Huntsman, Cain, Santorum, Gingrich, and Johnson are with near 100% certainty never going to make it as far as South Carolina. Paul, Perry, Romney, Bachman will have that much finance.
As these candidates drop out where will their "type" of supporters go?
Huntsman
Cain
Santorum
Gingrich
=========
Johnson
We better get used to the idea of registering voters.
grassroots fail
Not providing Johnson with just enough support to wear-down out-distance and financially slow-drain the lower 2nd tier candidates, very well could turn out to be grassroots worst mistake of the 2012 campaign. If I were to guess who among Paul's supporters were voicing the most resistance toward the idea of defending GJ , my guess would be it's coming mostly from the grassroots youth majority and those who have zero to very little experience with and/or understanding of national political campaign strategy.
Let me put forth the question - In the same current situation what if Gary Johnson were instead Judge Napolitano or Rand Paul?
Right now Johnson should be the 5th place obstacle standing between the bottom tier Santorum, Huntsman, Cain, Gingrich and the top tier Paul, Bachman, Perry, Womney; with more cash on hand than the bottom tier, and for most bottom tier candidates the Cali debate would be their last stand.
Instead of tuning into the debate next week and watching RP and GJ eat up the airtime with heated gentlemanly arguments over the finer details of policy, ideology, world history, economic theory; providing viewers with more informational education than they've had since high school - instead we're going to watch a replay of 2007 with every schmuck on that stage trying to make Ron look the fool. Again I ask what if Gary Johnson were instead Judge Napolitano or Rand Paul? Would having him in the arena with Ron be a threat our goal?
I disagree. I think a replay
I disagree. I think a replay of the 2007 debates would be awesome. The more they look like schmucks, the better it is for Ron Paul. He sticks out like a sore thumb compared to those other guys, it's almost not even fair. I don't think we NEED Gary Johnson at all.
I would agree that Johnson deserves a fair shake, but I don't see any benefit in encouraging Ron Paul supporters to support Gary Johnson? They're campaigning for the same votes, and any money or effort spent on the Gary Johnson campaign could have been spent on the RP campaign.
Not true...Gary Johnson has
Not true...Gary Johnson has different views on abortion and borders, and has a different background (former governor, athlete, and a lot of business experience). I think they are going for different voters, but eventually all would be consolidated to support the one in the lead (aka Ron Paul).
liberty lover in Nor Cal!
Exactly! RP wins in the end!
The order they each drop out effects the outcome for all of the remaining. Races are contests. All kinds of things factor in the odds - fund raising, exposure, ads, momentum, etc...
...look at it like nfl play-off football; winner advances to the super bowl to face off against Obama for the trophy. 1st and 2nd enjoy the luxuries of front-runners; a buy week and homefield advantage. 3rd and 4th place have to work harder by playing extra rounds against the 5th and 6th place wild-cards.
Suddenly the NFL breaks it's own rules and announces 6th place wildcard will not go to the 6th place New Mexico Governors but instead be granted to the 7th place Santorum Chickenhawks.
NEWSFLASH! The game is rigged. Don't ask the polls - ask an odds maker. The game is rigged. The polls are just feedback for the msmedia to know how well they're doing at selling us on their choice candidates.
That Gary Johnson is such a threat to the establishment that they violate their own rules to keep him out of the show? You really think GJ's exclusion has more to do with GJ than it has to do with Ron Paul?
... as for the order of drop-out Ron Paul favors best if Huntsman exits before Santorum.
Palin's entry would dilute the field to our favor polling wise in the short-term but quickly narrowed as the media frames a 4-way race between the 2 women Palin vs Bachman, and the 2 Governors Perry vs Romney with all the drama of a Hollywood production - won't leave much remaining airtime to talk about anyone else in the race.
If the field remains unchanged (meaning no other candidates enter the race) I have odds on 5th and 3rd as kingmakers in this contest.
Replays
Replays always have them same ending - that's why they call em replays. Einstein said the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Replay 2007 we loose in the end.
I hear that line a lot...
and it doesn't work for everything. By your logic, we shouldn't even have debates this year, since we did 4 years ago... That would be INSANE.
I would argue that the 2007 debates woke a lot of people up with regards to politics, and have continued to do so on youtube for years.
I remember seeing those debates for the first time on youtube, and it was unlike anything I had ever seen. Politicians being revealed for what they really were, and by another politician?
When I said I'd like a replay, I didn't mean I wanted Ron Paul to say the same words verbatim. I just meant I want him to knock it out of the park again. Is your argument boiling down to "If Gary Johnson is not in the debate, Ron Paul will lose?"
Red Herring
Is your argument boiling down to "If Gary Johnson is not in the debate, Ron Paul will lose?"
Seriously dood? Really?
Edit
By your logic, we shouldn't even have debates this year, since we did 4 years ago...
damn dude that's two...
must suck to have nothing but straws
Well when you say this...
"Not providing Johnson with just enough support...could turn out to be grassroots worst mistake of the 2012 campaign."
What else am I supposed to think? By 2012 campaign, did you mean Ron Paul's campaign? And by worst mistake, did you mean it could cost a victory? Because if it couldn't, then why even bring it up? And if you believe it could, then clearly we're back to my question... Are you saying we need Gary Johnson in order to secure a Ron Paul victory? That's a rhetorical question, because I was only trying to make the point that we should focus on the candidate we are trying to get elected.
since debate fouls are fair rule
let me employ your strategy of reverse logic - are you saying it's better for Ron's campaign if those who don't like Ron throw support behind Perry, Bachman(4th), Romney, or Cain(5th), rather than Johnson? That would be a risky assumption on your part - to assume Cain would be more likely than Johnson to endorse Ron.
need better lobbying effort than this to double my contribution
and split half to GJ.. because that would put me over 2000.
not really interested in all the what-if scenarios.. time is better spent reading a novel.
btw this is the branch of libertarianism split you want us to support? http://www.dailypaul.com/177144/will-wilkinson-calls-ron-pau...
could care less
First let's be clear, nowhere in my comment did I solicit contributions, nor would I. Support comes in many forms.
Secondly, when this campaign ends, success or failure will not be judged by the amount of dollars you contributed, but whether or not you deliver your voting precinct to Ron Paul ftw on election day. You can tell me off the top of your head how much money you've donated, but can you tell me off the top of your head how many votes Ron Paul needs on primary election day to win in your own precinct? In the end what is going to reveal the doers from the bull sitters in this effort is, did you win your precinct?
Finally, I could care less about the ideological divide. Paul and Johnson are both truthful men. I don't feel shucked and jived and fed the party line when they speak. I don't care which party they represent. If their honest and telling me what they're going to stop taking from me the people, not telling me what they're going to give me the people, then I'm gonna back em. The more politicians like Paul and Johnson the more politicians I'll support.
Split? lol! Ron Paul ppl are Ron Paul ppl. Johnson would skin Huntsman and attract support from those who do not like Paul and those who are not keen on Perry. Perry comes out of Bachman and Romney's hyde. Santorum support comes out of Bachmans hyde. Perry and Huntsman stand to lose the most from Johnson who will not get past Paul in the polls. In short Johnson would help narrow the double-digit polling gap between 3rd place Paul and 2nd/1st place Perry/Romney.
To each his own...
and I respect your choice to not do anything to help GJ.
However, if you think you might want to...
http://www.facebook.com/groups/garyjohnson2012/doc/101502704...
This link has the contact info for the right places to contact.
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
Has Johnson been detained or harassed by law enforcement?
If so you are correct.
donvino
Isn't this site the Daily Paul?
Just... just double checking.
Gary was a good friend of the Ron Paul Revolution
apparently not so much now
what a shame
Whether he is or isn't
Isn't the question at hand. This site is about electing RP. Splitting the Libertarian vote is a hugely bad idea, no matter how much I like/dislike GJ.
notice that i'm not attacking GJ.. i like GJ in fact
just saying that some people using these moral catch phrase to rally people sound a bit hypocritical. you guys may be exceptions but not everyone in the GJ camp appreciates what we're doing. a sizable and very vocal amount in fact are passive agitators against paul. otherwise they wouldn't have enough impact to catch such an impression now would they. sorry i usually prefer not to be the unconditional nice guy, but i think i am pretty fair.
"Dedicated to restoring
"Dedicated to restoring Constitutional government to the United States of America", for which Gary also stands.
www.gunowners.org
While I Agree it should be fair
There is only one candidate UP THERE who would actually restore our republic. Anything less than that is NOT what I am after.
I do agree that everyone should have a shot BUT the politics in this day and age are NOT made to be fair. You have to FIGHT for coverage OR be one of "thier" candidates.
Ron Paul got to where he is today from his message and it waking up a group that continues to grow. If Gary is able to build something like that then GREAT for him BUT as far as this election goes. All my resources, ideas, thoughts and voice is going to go to electing Ron Paul.
Call me unfair but I don't care right now. Our country is going to shit and "playing fair" to show others how cool we are is NOT what I am after.
I want to show all these SHEEP exactly what is needed which is
BRING THE TROOPS HOME
Remove the federal governments hold over the states
the rest will fall into place.
As far as vp talk, WHO CARES right now. If we get ron paul into that pole position then the vp at that point does not matter.
Last election people kept trying to put up ANY and ALL vp ideas with ron paul. Many were saying it in hopes of getting a certain candidates supporters LIKE hucks army etc... (for those who were campaigning back in 07 remember)
If gary feels left out then he needs to do something about that whether that be his supporters or otherwise. I just do not find it beneficial to waste my efforts on another candidate when we already know how hard of a fight we currently have.
Ron Paul is the ONE candidate who can help us. That is where my efforts will be.
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in agreement to what you said
I'm making it public that there is no way in Hell Gary Johnson will make it on the ballot in Vermont because it takes work and ALL hands in Vermont are going towards Ron Paul 2012. Since there is no way he can win 50 states; he is running for president on a treadmill. There are people who wish activists would work for someone else; Activism for any other candidate that is not Ron Paul will have no effect in Vermont that is why noone will do anything.
I like Gary Johnson and his policies... but the worst thing of all about Michelle Bachmann and Newt Gingrich is not their terrible America Ruining Neo-con Ideas; that is 2nd. The worst thing is they are Running Against Ron Paul. It just so happens Gary Johnson is as well. Wouldn't Ghengis Kahn and the Smoke Monster from LOST run against Ron Paul as well?
so what accounted for the comments of katherine mangu,
a johnson supporter, saying paul can't win? didn't seem like much of an 'in case they came for the jews' moment. obviously the word 'libertarian' doesn't mean anything. it doesn't even mean we unite around the same cause. the term has already shown itself to be non-binding. stop elevating that term. we're 'new' libertarians.. not the old, for temporary use before we rebrand ourselves to separate from the old quasi libertarianism totally.
I don't know KM, is she just a supporter or campaign staff?
If the former, it's meaningless. Imagine if people ignored Ron Paul because of his crazy supporters? Oh wait... they do! Are we going to stoop to the same level?
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
KM is a writer for Reason Magazine
who went on TV and said bad things about RP, including "he could never win".
I think it was on the Judge's show.
But Johnson didn't say it,
But Johnson didn't say it, right?
www.gunowners.org