-5 votes

US & NATO Surrounding Israel With The Dogs of War

Just take a look at a map of the middle east:


Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria....

Talk about destabilization!

If the multiple fires of war being set in the middle east turns into a raging inferno, who do you think all of these countries are going to attack?

Israel is being surrounded by the dogs of war.

Did Israel ever expect the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to spread all over the middle east? Or were they under the impression that these wars would be, "managed conflicts?"

Obama has stabbed Israel and America in our backs. His '67 border statement aside, Obama promised to end the war in Iraq and then promptly broke his promise to bring an end to, "Bush's war." A leopard does not change his spots.

The LAST thing the Nation of Israel wants right now is another war on their front doorstep.

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by all means go move to israel

and help them if you wish. do not force our soldiers to fight in other countries civil wars.

The best way to "help,"

The best way to "help," Israel would be by removing our troops, now!

Why do I say this?

Because if America and NATO do not end the wars soon, I think every Muslim nation will eventually gang up on their one common and closest enemy.

It's like a domino theory...create war and chaos in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, etc. and those wars will coalesce into an all out invasion of Israel.

Many - probably a vast majority of Muslims in the middle east think that Israel is the driving force behind the wars being waged. They blame Israel more than they blame America or NATO....

And if that is so, I think it is very reasonable to suggest that if the wars escalate - Israel will eventually be attacked by a unified force of Muslim nations.

And just like America, there are Jews in Israel that want nothing but peace and truth. But their fellow countrymen want war and chaos. PLEASE - do not lump Israel into one lump sum. The vast majority of Israeli citizens desire peace, not war. The same can be said for America.

Unfortunately, both countries have globalist/satanic elements within government, law, police, and education systems...but don't let these few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Embassy to JeruSalem

US: bill to move embassy to Jerusalem gains force, -

something to ponder

I'm not really certain what it is that you are . . .


I've been reading the comments, and it's the same Israel/U.S./neoconservative quagmire.

The issue that few people can comprehend, including myself.

I don't pretend to know what is going on, but I hate to see this turning into:

Jews (and Christians) verus Muslims or . . .

Christians versus Jews.

That isn't what is happening here, except among those who have been deceived, whether Christian, Islamic or Jewish.

There are Jews who are horrified by the things that Israel has done in Gaza. There are Jews who refuse to be ciizens of Israel. There are Jews who criticize Israel (in and out of that nation, citizen and non-citizen alike)--

In *my* opinion (as a Christian) the most dangerous people are Christians who are fanatically obsessed with Israel or the Holy Land.

As a Christian I find the history of that area interesting, but I don't go beyond that. Too many things that aren't found in the scriptures are read into the scriptures by too many fanatics.

As a person with Jewish family members I feel . . . concerned for their safety if there should ever be a reprisal.

I am weary of Muslim-bashing.

Christians need to beware of what they are doing and what they believe, and many of them are not aware of what they are doing and don't really understand what it is they believe.

It's a big mess, and I feel sad about it.

But it's not really about religion, except among a few fanatics of all three religions, just a few. It is mostly about politics, power, economics and people who are capable of bending entire populations by use of the media and through policies and who use the facade of religion (especially religious collectivism) to keep people entrapped.

A sad situation.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

+1 for Care & Concern.

1988vote, thanks for your post, you have expressed it so well,-
"It's a big mess, and I feel sad about it."

Sure its BIG, and very complex, but it is not a can of worms or bowl of spaghetti that can be tossed into the garbage bag. Another thing is that it did not happen by chance, accident or coincidence. This mess or crisis was engineered by some very cruel demons in human form, and it took them over 100 years to bring the world to this dangerous point.

Sad, yes, it makes all concerned folks very sad. While reading thru this thread I had many thoughts, saw so many different angles / perspectives, and felt like adding my view /words, but not now, after reading yours I take a pause here, maybe later I might re-visit and post some words or links.
With best wishes.

I agree that this 'mess' was carefully constructed--

but I'm one of those conspiracy theorists--


it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

You seem unaware of Israel's planned borders

There is no Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria. . .
Christians are the new Israel. Don't be decieved.

Christians are the new Israel.

Sorry friend, that is woefully wrong and referred to as "Replacement Theology". DO NOT embrace it.

Israel has been set aside while the Church is here - when the Church is gone, the Lord will once again focus on Israel and finish the many promises He made to her that have yet to be fulfilled. It will not be pleasant but it will mean her restoration and redemption.

All eyes on Israel - she is the hot-spot for what is to come.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

unless you mean that Christian Zionists are . . .

correct to insist that America fund Israel, so that Israel can be redeemed (something with which I ardently disagree and don't think can be supported by scripture)--

you and Mike are both correct.

Christians ARE the new Israel, but Jesus hasn't forgotten the Jews either.

And yet . . . the Israel that calls itself a state is not anything--

it's just . . . --

it may be a fulfillment of prophecy, but only because prophets can see into the future and tell what is going to happen, not that God is 'behind' it--

God is in everything; He is 'behind' the entire scenario, but it's not His idea for people to treat others the way many have been treated in the name of "Israel".

But He still knew it would happen and told prophets about it; in THAT sense . . . prophecy is being fulfilled.

He hasn't forgotten the Jews, but they will need to accept Him.

I believe that those Jews who are not in favor of Israel are more prepared to accept Jesus Christ by virtue of their "Christian" attitude towards others in the middle east--

hence . . . many of the leaders of Israel, the state, aren't in a very happy spot right now, spiritually.

I don't usually express my beliefs this openly, but this is what *I* believe after years and years of reading the Old and New Testament, and I agree . . .

the dispensationalists are scary; that is NOT scripture.

God's plan is big enough for everyone--

but . . . I don't think the modern state of Israel makes Him very happy.

And as a Christian I won't vote for warmongers to please Israel.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Actually it's the teaching of St Paul

"Fallwell and the
others who demand unconditional support for Israel consider the modern Jewish
State a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. They are heavily influenced by
dispensationalism, a method of Bible interpretation which became popular through
the writings of John Nelson Darby (died 1882). Darby, a one time cleric of the
Church of England, joined the Plymouth Brethren in 1831 and developed a
complicated system of Biblical interpretation that divides God’s saving action
into individual eras or dispensations. This scheme influenced thousands of
American Protestants through the Niagara Bible Conference of 1895 and the
publication of the Scofield Reference Bible by Cyrus Ingerson Scofield the next

Dispensationalism makes a strong distinction between the promises made to the Jews before Christ
and the reality of the Church after Pentecost. Thus dispensationalists teach
that God’s promises to the Jews were not fulfilled through the Church but
remained unfulfilled during the Church age. They consider the Church a new and
separate creation by God with its own separate agenda, not the heir to the
promises made by God to ancient Israel. Therefore, it is natural that the
dispensationalists should see the founding of the modern state of Israel as a
fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

Dispensationalists interpret the words, phrases, and sentences of the Bible in a very literalistic
manner. Thus they reject or fail to see the importance of an ancient and almost
universal principle of Biblical interpretation known as typology. Typology is
the method of Biblical understanding which seeks the spiritual meaning of the
historical events described in the Old Testament.

Fundamental to the typological method of Biblical interpretation as practiced by the early and
later Fathers is the belief that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment and completion
of the Law and the Prophets of the Old Testament. For example, the near
sacrifice of Isaac points towards the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. The ark
that saved Noah and his family from the Flood is a type of the Church which
saves the faithful from sin and death. The burning bush is seen as a type of the
Blessed Virgin Mary, who bore God in the flesh, yet was not consumed by the
presence of the divinity within her womb.

The typological method is not
just the invention of the Fathers, but is based firmly on the New Testament. Our
Lord Himself used the example of Jonah as a type of the three days that He would
spend in the tomb (Matthew 12:40). He also compared the lifting up of the
serpent by Moses to his own ascent of the cross (John 3:14). Saint Paul
considered the passing through the Red Sea as a type for baptism (I Corinthians
10:1-2). Saint Peter even uses the term “antitype” to compare the ark with
baptism (I Peter 3:20-21). Thus the typological method of interpretation is
firmly grounded in the Holy Scriptures.

According to the typological
method, God’s promises to Abraham and his descendents were fulfilled through
Christ and His Church. One Orthodox scholar has written: “In Christ, then, the
covenant with Israel was fulfilled, transformed, and transcended. After the
coming of the Messiah—the Incarnation of God the Son—only those who are
‘built into Christ’ are counted among the people of God. In Christ, the old
Israel is superseded by the Christian Church, the new Israel, the body of
Christ; the old covenant is completed in the new covenant in and through Jesus
Christ” (George Cronk, The Message of the Bible; St. Vladimir Seminary
Press; 1982, p. 80).

This interpretation of the covenant with Abraham and his descendents as fulfilled through Christ and
His Church is firmly grounded in the witness of the New Testament. In the
parable of the Vineyard Owner, our Lord uses the unfaithful tenants of a
vineyard to illustrate this point. The owner, representing God, sent his
servants, representing the prophets, and finally his son and heir, representing
Christ, to collect his rent. The tenants, who represent the Jews, ignored the
request for the rent and killed both the servants and the son of the owner of
the vineyard. At the end of the parable our Lord said, “Therefore what will
the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vinedressers, and
give the vineyard to others” (Mark 12:1-9). In other words, those who
faithfully believe in Him will inherit the status that Israel had before it
rejected the Messiah.

Saint Paul wrote, “Therefore
know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham . . . if you are
Christ’s then you are of Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the
promise” (Galatians 3:7-9). Indeed, Saint Paul called the body of believers
“the Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16). Saint Peter illustrated this point by
applying terms used to describe Israel in the Old Testament when he wrote,
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own
special people” (I Peter 2:9).
Thus, according to the New
Testament, the standard against which all doctrine and Biblical interpretations
must be tested, God’s covenant with Abraham and his descendents has been
fulfilled through Christ and His followers, not through a secular state, for
Christ said, “My Kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).

It is true that there are some
Old Testament prophecies that speak of a restoration of Israel following the
destruction of Israel by Assyria and of Judah by Babylon. For example, Isaiah
wrote, “It shall come to pass that the Lord shall set His hand again the
second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left” (Isaiah 11:11).
Jeremiah prophesied, “For I will bring them back into their land which I gave
to their fathers” (Jeremiah 16:15). Micah said, “I will surely gather
the remnant of Israel” (Micah 12:12).

Indeed, God did restore Israel. The book of Ezra tells
how Cyrus, the King of Persia who had conquered Babylon, allowed the Jews to
return from exile and to rebuild their temple in Jerusalem. Significantly the
beginning of Ezra states that the events recorded are in fulfillment of the
prophecy of Jeremiah (Ezra 1:1). Thus the Old Testament prophecies cited in
support of the modern state of Israel were fulfilled long ago when the Jews
returned from the Babylonian captivity.


The time has come for Christians
to carefully reevaluate an attitude towards modern Israel which is based
on faulty premises. Both Church history and the Holy Scriptures teach clearly
that Christ and His Church are the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets.
Saint Paul tells us that those who follow Christ in faith are the true children
of Abraham and heirs to the promises made by God to the Old Testament patriarch.
The prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel have already been fulfilled
and should not be applied carte-blanche to the modern state of Israel."

Israel is at war NOW -- and we are their weapon.

Israel doesn't much care about who controls Iraq; all they wanted was to DESTROY Iraq's ability to make war against Israel. Mission accomplished. Malnourished and impoverished Sunnis and Shia are squabbling in the wreckage of a formerly prosperous and relatively free nation (at least the one where women and minorities had the best civil rights.) Iraq will not regain its prosperity or its military prowess in our lifetimes. And that's all Israel cares about.

Israel is anathema in the Middle East, and cannot control neighboring governments without causing those governments to implode. Meddling in elections and coups is never more than a temporary expedient, because defeat will always be just one more election or coup away, world without end. Israel is more interested in SMASHING FLAT anyone they regard as a threat.

Don't you see it? Israel has WON the Iraq war. They are also winning the wars in Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Sudan, and Syria -- without firing a shot themselves. They just buy some US politicians to do their murdering for them. Bush. Cheney. Obama. Most of both houses of Congress. And one-by-one, the hostile military powers that could have threatened Israel are being bombed back to the Stone Age.

And on this anniversary of 9-ll, let's all remember the famous "Dancing Israelis" (google it), Mossad agents set up in advance to film the fall of the Twin Towers. Driving a van with traces of explosives in it. And refresh your memory about "controlled demolition," and how two jetliners managed to demolish 3 steel skyscrapers with nothing more explosive than jet fuel. And if you're up for more, check this out. Remember 9-11. Remember how Israel enlisted our help in their filthy little race war. Remember it every time Muslims are painted as "the enemy" in our media.

If the fires of war come to Israel, it will be nothing more than justice, long overdue.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Well Said

I intended this morning to clarify my remarks from yesterday; but after reading your comment, there is no need.

Iraq hasn't been a threat to

Iraq hasn't been a threat to Israel since the first Gulf War, Pakistan and Afghanistan are too far away to be a threat (unless Pakistan used nukes, but they still have those, and destabilizing Pakistan certainly doesn't help Israel in that regard, plus Pakistan depends on the US for aid), and neither Libya nor Sudan were ever much of a threat. Egypt is a threat if their government was hostile, in which case it makes no sense to overthrow a relatively friendly dictator in exchange for the possibility of an Islamist dictatorship. Iran and Syria were the only countries that were conceivable threats to Israel at the beginning of the year, though that very well may change if Islamists seize power in some of these revolutions

The common thread

which you seem to have missed: all those countries are Muslim. Israel is engineering a RACE WAR, so that the US will blindly support them WHATEVER they do.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

A race war between 16 million

A race war between 16 million Jews and over a billion Muslims will surely end well for Israel, right? Even the US couldn't stop them from being destroyed if they seriously tried to wipe out Muslims. How are they going to do so? Obviously, nuclear warfare won't work, because Israel would be destroyed with the rest of the Middle East. And any sort of conventional or semi-conventional war between Israel and the entire Muslim world will not end well. Destabilizing the Middle East is not in Israel's interest. If that is what their leaders are actually trying to do, then I think they are pretty idiotic, and this plan is going to backfire on them badly. And of course, Israel must have directed the US to intervene in Bosnia and Kosovo to protect the Muslims that they are trying to exterminate, right?

"'By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War"

The motto of the Israeli Mossad. They have managed to start a war by attacking a "friend," and then persuading him that he was really attacked by an innocent third party, their enemy. Then they sit back comfortably to watch the feathers fly. They figure war is not so bad, as long as they don't have to do the fighting or the dying.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

None of the politicians give

None of the politicians give a s*it about Israel. They are just one of many tools used to justify US interventionism.

Ever hear of AIPAC?

You know...lobby money in politicians' pockets?

As I said, they don't give a

As I said, they don't give a sh*t Israel. They continue the alliance and aid for many reasons, including lobby money and increased US power and influence around the globe. I just think some people here are really naive if they think the US would be adhering to a noninterventionist foreign policy if it wasn't for Israel.

No one has said the US would

No one has said the US would be pursuing a noninterventionist foreign policy if it weren't for Israel. But we will never know because the fact of the matter is that the Israeli lobby has a strangle hold over the US government.

Those who defend Israel will always do what you just did there... create straw man arguments which no one adheres to in the hope of discrediting those who oppose your argument.

Yes, we do know we wouldn't

Yes, we do know we wouldn't be pursuing noninterventionism, because we weren't doing so for at least fifty years before Israel existed, and since then we have constantly been intervening in situations that have nothing to do with Israel. Israel's a convenient excuse for intervening in the Middle East, and yes, a good source of lobbying money, but that doesn't mean our politicians do what they do solely or mostly out of loyalty or love for Israel, and not the insatiable desire to control other people and other lands, as they have been doing for over a hundred years, well before Israel existed.

pseudo is saying that Israel

pseudo is saying that Israel doesn't give a shit about us and turning around what you said.

I think what you are saying is too much that way too. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle here.

Although what you say about just one tool should be listend to too. There were other people pushing for war that was not the neocons, for instance oil interests.

The reason that Israel is being used as a tool doesn't work is because Israel really wanted the wars, and had people in our government planning it according to many articles, books, newspaper accounts, etc. But there are other interests that was pushing for it too obviously.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Just because our politicians

Just because our politicians use Israel doesn't preclude Israel from taking advantage of that and using the US

go move to israel then and protect them

if that is your wish. dont send our great troops to die for other countries land grabs. remember the uss liberty

You misinterpreted what I

You misinterpreted what I wrote...

Let me please try this again.

End the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Pakistan - bring our troops home now in order to create a more stable environment in the middle east.

Peace is more stable than war.

If the US and NATO removed all of their forces tomorrow, I think there'd be a sense of calm.

War and the prospect of more war only brings tension to the region.

Some may argue that if we leave now, the middle east will erupt in chaos and would make Israel vulnerable to attack.

I could not disagree more! They are more than capable of defending themselves, for now.

If the US and NATO do not leave the region soon, the wars will escalate - which will expose Israel to a war campaign on multiple fronts.

END THE WARS - It's in America's and Israel's best interests.

If the wars do not end soon, America and Israel will cease to exist as sovereign nation states.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Jeremiah 13

"Obama has stabbed Israel and America in our backs. His '67 border statement aside, Obama promised to end the war in Iraq and then promptly broke his promise to bring an end to, "Bush's war." A leopard does not change his spots."

Fyi, you might not want to use this particular quote, as in context with Obama, it could look racist if you know the full Bible quote:

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?

But the full passage is about being saved, and an unsaved man can not change his sin nature.

You need Jesus Christ. Jewish people too.

Jeremiah 13L
23Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

24Therefore will I scatter them as the stubble that passeth away by the wind of the wilderness.

25This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the LORD; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood.

26Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.

27I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Here is one for you to read. Take it to heart .

they deny Jesus the Christ. Psalms 81.

The whole thing with the

The whole thing with the middle-east is that they are placing a military presence around Israel. Israel is going to destroy Al-Aqsa to rebuild the Temple. If there was no military presence the Muslims would go crazy and invade Israel when Al-Aqsa is destroyed.

A temple by Judaism if built,

A temple by Judaism, if built, would by its nature by blasphemous to the Lord.

The actual temple is the church, his body and his bride.

1 Peter 2:
4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.