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RP's foreign policy on Israel, please help clarify

I have had argument after argument with people who are dead hung up on RP's positions on Israel.

their hang up is alwasy basically this:

If Israel was under threat of nuclear annihilation from Iran, or any other country or combination of countries....that RP would not take the call and would let the chips fall where they may.

they cite mainly the Megan Kelly interview on Fox a few months ago.

and this is one of their main reasons for not supporting Paul based on their understanding of his foreign policy in regards to israel.

The way I understand it is that Dr. Paul's position is to take the handcuffs off of Israel and let Israel defend israel without answer to big brother America. and that this is a much better policy that the way it currently stands now.

Can someone clarify Dr Paul's position for me and tell me if in fact that is Dr Paul's position based on the scenarios I often discuss with non-RP supporters?

thanks for your time



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The way you can explain it to a Zionist

is, that as long as the US plays big brother, Israel isn't going to make any concessions in order to make peace with their neighbors. They are going to continue to press forward with actions that inflame their neighbors and eventually have to reap what they have sewn. Christian's are suppossed to be for peace and against instigation of war. So, we should focus on making peace with all countries, not war. I would also have them research the whole creation of Zionism. If they are Christians, the should research Cyrus Scofield who fabricated the the Christian Zionist concept with his Scofield Reference Bible, and his relationship with Rothschild and their bankster agents. And, also Theodore Herzl, who pressed for a homeland for Jews, and how it was a political movement, and not religious. There were several options in his plan, Palestine being one, but also Cyprus, Uganda and Argentine were options. Palestine was initially turned down by the rabbi's in the region, along with Cyprus, and Herzl made the Uganda plan for the homeland. However, the Rothschild's who thought of the fortunes to be made by the conflicts of making it in Palestine, changed the plan. I would have them watch the Freedom Watch program with ex CIA bin Laden task force chief, Michael Schuer, who is Jewish and listen to his analysis on our foreign policy in relation to Israel.

When is it America's Turn?!!!

PUT AMERICA FIRST!!!!!

WHO cares about our Fake a$$ so-called "friends" by the name of Israel? WE care about AMERICA and AMERICANS!

Btw, if Israel was really our "friend" then they would give us Foreign Aid to pay down our debt.

But they are not our "friend." Friends help out friends. Israel is our Pimp and we're its b!tch. Thats all we do, is give give give our money to our Pimp.

PUT AMERICA FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My God's not dead; he's surely alive. And he's living on the inside roaring like a lion.

If Israel is their main concern...

Who needs them. Neocons are a waste of time. The whole "nuke Israel off the planet" argument is ridiculous anyway. Iranians don't have a death wish any more than anyone else with nukes does. Further, these countries are in too close proximity to be nuking each other, the fallout would hit Iraq, Syria, and Saudi Arabia at least and they certainly wouldn't be happy about it. And that's not taking into account the almost certain reactionary retaliatory strikes. Even the crazies over there know not to shit where they eat.

I would ask them to learn about the USS Liberty.

If they actually bothered to do so, I would then show them how much money we send to Israel for military aid, and ask them why they are OK with sending a foreign nation munitions which they use to harm US citizens. If they say "That was then, this is now," tell them to learn who Furkan Dogan is.
The truth about Israel is going to have to be given in pieces to people who believe they are an ally.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Ron Paul is PRO Israel's sovereignty

Basically Ron Paul has said many times that:

1. America should not dictate to Israel.
2. Israel should be allowed to negotiate terms for peace treaties with its neighbors without American interference.
3. Israel should be allowed to defend itself without American restraints.
4. Israel is perfectly capable of handling any forces in the Middle East. They have over 300 nukes.
5. America gives 5-7 times more subsidies to Israel's enemies than to Israel--this is wrong.
6. America should stop ALL subsidies; this will have a 2-fold effect. Israel has a net gain; Israel's enemies have a net loss; and America goes less into debt!

Hope that helps.
Take care

It is the same argument as the left

If we dont have a dept of education little children will be forced to work in slave mines.

If we dont have universal health care poor people will be dieing in the streets

You cant win a false argument

Israel has about 200 or so nukes. They don't need us

protecting them.

Their military is pretty robust as well. I sure wouldn't want to fight them.

Israel doesn't need us.

We should not hold favorable positions to any nation over another.

Trade and Commerce with ALL nations. Entangling Alliances with NONE.

It's the same as every other nation.

Is Israel the US? Nope.

Is the US Israel? Nope.

Answer: NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. Any other answer is unconstitutional.

But it's no different than any other nation.

Is Pakistan the US? Nope.

Is the US Pakistan? Nope.

Answer: SAME - NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. Any other answer is unconstitutional.

What's so hard to understand about that? It's the position of George Washington and the founding fathers.

It always shuts them up when

It always shuts them up when you mention his stance actually having already occurred. In 1981 Ron Paul was one of only a few in government who didn't condemn the Israeli bombing of Iraqi nuclear facilities. The rest of our government and the UN condemned it, Ron Paul rightly said if Israel felt it needed to act in it's national security, it had every right as a sovereign nation to do so.

One more post that should get a +10

and a bump for you!

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Ask one simple question

Why are a half a million Israeli citizens defying their local laws to protest in the streets, with the exact same argument of those who are labeled ani-semite ?

Mt view - There is a big difference between supporting the people of Israel and government of Israel.

Because they must as in

Isaiah 8:14-22., which comes before chapter 9:6-14.
the LORD shall be revealed to them, one way or the other.

History repeats itself because of unbelief.
A loving GOD repeats the opportunity of GRACE.
Untill the last trump.

Read & Share...

...the following articles with those who claim Ron is "anti-Israel" or "anti-Semitic". The author of these essays, Dr. Block, is a very knowledgable economist and longtime supporter of Paul:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block88.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block89.html

He gives a point by point refutation of some of the biggest lies. Hope these are helpful!

Arapahoe County/Centennial/Denver Colorado

Anyone who thinks that Israel is under threat

Is looking at a distorted view of reality. Israel has been bombing and invading countries for decades- not Iran. Israel has nuclear weapons- not Iran. Iran has nothing and will never have nothing- and if they did want any weapons its only because we've bombed and invaded all their neighbors. The Iranian president never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth- he said it would disappear on its own like the Soviet Union.

The truth is more than enough to show people their fake morality when it comes to Israel. There's no reason for american blood, sweat, or tears to go to the middle east for any country- whether its Israel, saudia arabia, or our puppets in Afghanistan or Iraq. All these countries have been dealing with constant colonization from Western countries- the lines of Syria, Iraq, Iran were all drawn up by the British Empire. Its time we left them all alone so they can live the way they want.

Iran is under threat by Israel- not the other way around. How about if Israel was ready to annihilate Iran via nuclear weapons or just conventional bombs? Would you want the US president to step in at that point? Double standards only exist because people perceive Iranians to be sub-human because they had the gall to remove the dictator we installed in their country.

A better question is: Why do you STILL trust the government/medi

after all the crap they've pulled?

Why support ANYTHING they do or say?

They are like an employee, you've caught lying and stealing several times.

It doesn't matter if you have actually proof that they embezzeled millions from your company, you just don't trust them anymore.

Time to fire them.

It's time the US citizens trimmed the fat off of DC.

Here's an idea: let's send our representatives the book, "Who Moved Our Cheese?"

That book is what employers gave to employees to prepare them psychologically to be terminated.

While we are at it. Let's send that book to all neocon propagandists, all media stations, all academia, etc.

Just to clarify

Ron Paul is pro the people of Israel - more so than anybody else.

Our Government is pro the Government of Israel but against the people of Israel.

The reason being that the people running our Government are also running the Government of Israel.

I have been to Israel. No one is going to nuke it. Here's why.

Do you sincerely believe Iran would nuke Israel? If so, where? Tel Aviv? Jerusalem? I have been to both cities, and Iran would NEVER nuke Israel because there are tens to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that live in or near these areas. Furthermore the surrounding countries that are not pro Israel still wouldn't want Israel nuked because of the nearby fallout/radiation.

Ron Paul is inadvertently more pro Israel than any other politician because he is believes in non-intervention -- not to be confused with isolationism. How so? Because he says Israel should deal with its problems the way Israel thinks it best to do so WITHOUT the US telling it what to do. All the other politicians use Israel as a political chip; they just want to get involved and take credit for being part of the peace process. Just like abortion, they don't want the issue ever really resolved; it is much better to be able to have a pro Israel platform.

Also Ron Paul proposes cutting off foreign aid to all countries. We give Israel's enemies 4 times the amount we give Israel. That looks like a net favor to Israel by cutting off all the aid. Giving Israel foreign aid while also helping its neighbors isn't doing it any good. By all counts, this makes Ron Paul's cut to foreign aid extremely pro Israel.

The Israeli military is FAR stronger than Iran's. Their air force alone is twice the size of Iran's while its military might as a whole is stronger than all the surrounding countries put together.

Also, the moment Israel feels even remotely in danger, which is WAY before a nuke would be finished (Mossad puts the CIA to shame), it would go in and plow over any Iranian threat.

Lastly, Ron Paul is spot on.

We STARTED the war with Iran in 1953 by having the CIA go in and facilitate a coup to oust the LEGITIMATE government. The Iranians actually had a democracy that was functional until we came in! Furthermore the US actually had a respected reputation in the middle east before this. You never hear that though, do you?

So when we installed the Shah in 1953 which turned out to be oppressive, the Iranians overthrew it and replaced it with what? A government that, rightfully so, is very anti-US and anti-Israeli by extension. And so now we dare to be upset that they are anti-American?

Moving on, this begs the question: what now? This is Iraq all over again. There are no WMDs (our CIA tells us this... they usually lie in the opposite direction so they actually mean it) and yet here we are getting ready to spend American lives and money for what? Nothing.

What's more is the CIA and 9/11 commission both state that the primary reason we are attacked is from "blowback". Blowback is the result of the US presence in these countries that leads to negative attitude towards the US.

Let me propose two scenarios to you:

1) a Jihadist is recruiting you in the US to try help him attack Canada because "look at all the things they do to us! They invade us and our neighbors, kill our families, and set up fake governments!" At this point you say, "I don't see what you are talking about, go away crazy man."

2) a Jihadist is recruiting a moderate Muslim in a given Middle East country to try help him attack the US because "look at all the things they do to us! They invade us and our neighbors, kill our families, and set up fake governments!" At this point he says, "You are right. They did do those things and they killed my daughter, too! I will join you."

If a foreign military force were on American soil would you or your family sit idly for a moment? Like most communities we would see militias forming in an instant. And if Americans were being killed or our were government overthrown? It would be a national effort to rid ourselves of this foreign force.

Even if we had the authority to invade Iran to stop them, what would that solve? It would be more of the same failed prescription for the same old problem: we need to mind our own business. Israel is MORE than capable of taking care of itself. Trust me, it will not idly let Iran build or launch a nuclear weapon.

Pottawattamie County Iowa

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

Not to mention the Israeli submarine fleet...

Israel has at least three Dolphin-class submarines in deployment. Ironically (at least in an historical context) Germany donated the first two of these subs to Israel in 1997.

Three more have been ordered from the German shipbuilders, ThyssenKrupp, which will bring their fleet to six operational submarines. A Dolphin-class submarine now costs around $1 billion each.

From Wikipedia:

"According to news reports the submarines are normally based in the Mediterranean. One Dolphin was sent to the Red Sea in June 2009, which Israeli media interpreted as a warning to Iran. The Israeli Navy decided in May 2010 to keep at least one submarine equipped with nuclear missiles there permanently as a deterrent in response to rumoured ballistic missiles move from Syria to Lebanon."

Also, it's too damn close for nukes

It's like cage fighting with bazookas. Retarded.

Further, you have the threat of retaliation...from Israel and several other countries surrounding Iran.

Most of all, why the HELL are we still trusting the same government, media, academia, etc. that lied to us about Iraq?

They already went beyond Iraq with zero provacation...Yemen, Syria, Lybia, etc.

People need to wake up.

I think the closest thing we have to the truth is what Wesley Clark said: when the USSR fell, the USA saw it had a small window of time where it could do whatever it wanted in the middle east and no one could stop us.

But it doesn't matter if we know exactly what is going on. What matters is that we NO LONGER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT!

It's like having an employee who you just know is lying and stealing from you. You've caught him several times. It doesn't matter if he actually has stolen from the Christmas fund, you just don't trust him anymore. So it's TIME TO FIRE HIM!

Plain and simple.

It's time to fire these criminals in DC.

From my view...

If we would have adopted Dr. Paul's policy a long time ago, Israel would have taken matters into their own hands regarding Iran the same way they previously secured their safety with Iraq's nuclear plans. It's our current policy that has protected Iran from Israel and allowed their nuclear pursuit to get this far. If we keep Israel on the leash, we create a much bigger problem for the future.

The tides are changing!

Doug Wead wrote...

http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/ron-paul-on-israel/

http://www.americansforisrael.com/archives/35

http://middleeast.about.com/od/iran/f/iran-israel-nukes.htm

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. ~J. Swift

Ron Paul does not want to give Israel's enemies any aid

and RP wants Israel to be able to protect Herself as Israel sees fit. Nuff said.

Right here!

Here's the link:

http://www.ronpaul.com/2011-08-12/ron-paul-cut-foreign-aid-u...

Video is good, but I like the transcript better.

Let's Reign! (Rev. 5:10)
Valrico (Hillsborough County), Florida

Collapse

How about the fact that we're 15 trillion in debt and the country is about to collapse? Riots, turmoil, hunger, famine is where we're headed if we don't shape up. Even if we wanted to...just flat out can't afford it anymore.

Israel would absolutely destroy Iran in a war too....what do they need protection from? They have a big number of nuclear weapons and are much more technologically advanced than iran. Iran also hasn't attacked another country in like the last 250 years...they aren't aggressive. Also if i were iran i'd want a nuke...we've illegally invaded all the countries around it....i'd be a tad bit nervous about the situation.

This is a religious war that's lasted thousands of years, i think enough people have died over this nonsense....we should mind our own business.

My 2 cents

If they are like some of the people I have had this discussion with I would recommend you just walk away and spend your time on something that makes you happy and/or someone who is more inclined to come your way.

Some people just want whatever they want and are not able to listen to arguments. Life is too short, they will learn when they are ready (may be a very long time) but at least you have had some fun in the meantime.

that is a great point

time and effort better spent talking with people who haven't had the same foreign policy stance for the last 30 years.

Israel already has a couple

Israel already has a couple hundred nukes, and could wipe out Iran before they wiped out Israel. There is no reason for us to get involved. RP favors ending the alliance and the aid (same with all other countries) which will help us and them, as they no longer depend on the US (foreign aid doesn't help anyone and there are studies to back this up) and are free to make their own decisions. RP does not believe we should interfere with the affairs of other countries as long as we are not threatened.

not to mention that if we

not to mention that if we really wanted to help Israel then we should stop giving money to their enemies.

we give Israel less money than we give their enemies so if we stopped giving money to all of them, israel would be better off.

First of all, it's a loaded question

because the person obviously reveals that he thinks that there should be a "foreign policy on Israel", as if Israel is somehow deserving of its own special foreign policy.

I usually ask "Should Israel have any special different foreign policy than Botswana? And if so, why?"

It's useful to show them that Reagan converted

to Paul's position. http://the-classic-liberal.com/ronald-reagan-middle-east/

A policy of "neutrality" is what he came to believe in.