-13 votes

Time for a Reality Check Ron Paul Yes Men.

I love Ron Paul just as much as anybody else on here but you've got to be kidding yourselves if you think he did well in the last two debates. Yes, he did get ignored, but he DIDN'T get MAD about being ignored. When he got a chance to speak he didn't follow up on attacks from other people or attack when Perry and others were left wide open. I REFUSE to be an apologist for Ron Paul when it comes to his debate performance. I know he wants to be a gentleman, but he has taken enough abuse and its time to take the gloves off. I've seen him get mad and give them hell in the 1980's and he is still capable of doing that! Stop telling yourselves everything was great and amazing people, because it wasn't. Unless Ron has some secret medical condition that prevents him raising his voice and being forceful, or he has converted to Zen Buddhism recently I see no excuse.

Somebody, please agree with me on this!!! I can't be the only person that notices this for what it is and not what I would like it to be. I don't want to live in a Twilight Zone episode...

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I am so tired

of people thinking that they know what is best for Ron Paul to do. Ron Paul got each and every one of us to believe in him and his ideas. I DO think that he is doing great. The people that actually think for themselves are all turning to his way of thinking. Why? because his ideas are superior to the rest. No election is going to be won on a televised debate people! It's going to be won because of superior ideas being presented to a thinking public. That's OUR JOB!!!! Ron's job is to keep on putting those ideas forth. Do you all think that somewhere down the road there is going to be a miracle and all of a sudden everyone in the US is going to see the light? It's not going to happen people. This is a battle. We have superior ideas, they have superior financial and media outlets. We are fighting a guerilla war here. We are going to be bloodied up badly before we win. Ron is our general, he is leading us but we are the soldiers. It's up to us, not Ron to get angry, to fight like we never have before. If you don't want to be bloodied up then get off the battle field and make room for someone that does. You don't pick the battles based on whether you can win, you pick them based on whether they are worth getting bloodied over. You better ask yourselves whether this is worth getting bloodied over, and if it is then quit crying and pick up your sword!

Ron Paul is doing what he

Ron Paul is doing what he does best: being truthful and honest. People who want him to "get mad" and be something he is not apparently think he is going to appeal to more people that way. At the same time, though, he will lose his appeal with others. Who do we want to attract, people who are ready to hear the message of freedom from the best messenger we could ever hope to have? Or, do we want to appeal to people who are impressed by candidates who act tough and flex their muscles on stage? We already have poser candidates who are good at flexing their muscles on stage, and they have to resort to such antics because we all know that they lack substance. Ron Paul is all substance, so why would we want him to become more like those other poser candidates? It would do more harm than good. Keep fighting the good fight, and maintain the moral high-ground. As soon as we stoop to the level of the others, we are no better than they are. People who are ready to hear and see the truth will be reached, and that is what matters.

You have a point. He is being

You have a point.

He is being ignored and he should say as much by challenging these marginal questions, when he does get a chance to express his views, he needs to marginalize the marginal question quickly and politely then turn to express his platform and go till they cut him off to maximize his exposure in a pack of jackals and dis information.

Because the point is to gain future supporters not preach to the choir, we know his positions inside and out and he answers questions sometimes like everyone knows the fundamentals of his arguments. Then he realizes it and they move on letting sit there like any athlete getting cold and complacent till they give him a quasi hypothetical about an injured person somewhere at some place in a coma....? and he quickly has to get his thoughts together and respond.

i have seen enough Ron Paul speeches/interviews and he needs to get warmed up and when gets going he is unstoppable. He goes to instinct, and it just rolls of the tongue, rather than trying to read, remember all the notes/suggestions everyone is giving him

If you just watch Ron Paul clips, you don't always get the whole picture, of how they manipulate the information visually and audibly.


Ron Paul has so much momentum and modern tech, resources and cultures be hind him. the Revolution PAC is a seed that will blossom to the outcome we want and deserve, especially after the Daily show interview this Sept 26th he sure to gain more an more as WE express his ideas for him and convert the convertible rather than hoping people understood his message through a propaganda filter

His has a simple message...

"Laissez nous faire"

that's it

He doesn't have to explain away his passed ... he doesn't have to say "repeal Obama Care" 20 times (slightly nasal, make up chipping off)

You are only going to remember a couple things anyway

winning elder audience

It seems younger folks are disappointed with the last 2 debates. But on the other hand it seems older audiences are beginning to pay more attention to Ron - some discovering that he's not the "angry" "radical" that they heard about in the media - many wondering "why [Ron] didn't get a chance to answer that question", some of whom think he was "skipped", "forgot about", "overlooked", "ignored", due to age discrimination. I bet there are a lot of seniors in America who feel like "no one cares about what I think because I'm just old".

I'd also bet that half the candidates on that stage last night won't have enough financial backing to stay in this race beyond January. Come super Tuesday there will be 2 or 3 candidates left in the contest and Ron Paul will be one of them. It's still early. He can afford to patiently allow the sharks to eat each other and take bites out of the front-runner[s].

I agree That Ron Paul isn't a

I agree That Ron Paul isn't a great debater. He really should practice and come up with quick sound bite answers and responses. He should know the objections people are going to have and have a quick and smart reply to them.

But I doubt that is going to happen. It's possible that people will see his non-political ways and that it will make them think that at least he's not another shill. It's not the best case scenario but I think it's what we have. Most american's just won't take the time to find out why he believes what he does and will give into the demagoguery.

Reagan wasn't great about a lot of things, but he was certainly a great debater. He had great planned responses to all of the objections people might have about him. It's bad marketing not to know and prepare ahead of time what objections people will have and how to quickly resolve them. A good debater (or marketer) will plan out all of the objections and know all of the responses.

Having said all of that, a lot can happen between now and the election. If the economy collapses, that could really change the election. And I want to be prepared for those kinds of changes because they could mean everything to this campaign.

Getting mad is not effective...

Ron is not a great debater, there is no question about that. But so many of us have gotten past that because of his message and -- importantly -- because he is civil, authentic and thoughtful. He is above the foot-stomping lowness of run-of-the-mill politics.

Getting mad might be therapeutic for some of us, but it is not an effective tool of persuasion.

In Time

I'm sure Ron's patience is going to wear thin and your going to see him become a lot more bold. Once again, let Ron do what he does best and we should do what we do best.

"I have found that being rich is not about having the most but about needing the least"

So, I watch the debates with most the noise cut out.

The others have nothing to say and are preening themselves hoping to win the national presidential personality contest.

I don't care if he did good or bad on the TV popularity contest. I went for the ideas, and Dr. Paul didn't disappoint.

Free includes debt-free!

Painfully Wrong

Paul continues winning.

Gary Johnson and Herman Cain complained, and look what happened

Gary Johnson and Herman Cain complained, and look what it got them. Nothing.

Much as we may wish for Dr. Paul to appeal for justice, whining at the debates is unbecoming of the classic art of rhetoric, and I'm glad he has not engaged in it.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

i agree with what your saying

i agree with what your saying bro. i do think he answered his questions very well BUT he needs to make himself stand out from the pack of 8 or he is gonna fade into the background now that they are all sounding like him except on foreign policy. we all know WE support ron..but to win we need people that DONT know about him to support him as well. thanks for the post and ignore the rabid dog barking im sure this post will generate because of passionate feelings :)

I like the way...

Ron Paul is mature, distinguished, civilized and carries himself with grace despite the petty, underhanded and coarse manners and tactics of his opponents and inquisitors that he must endure. :)

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

ytc said it best:

...let Ron be Ron

I once heard it said that meekness is power under control.

I think the following describes Ron Paul's character:

Both gentleness and meekness are born of power, not weakness. There is a pseudo-gentleness that is effeminate, and there is a pseudo-meekness that is cowardly. But a Christian is to be gentle and meek because those are Godlike virtues...We should never be afraid, therefore, that the gentleness of the Spirit means weakness of character. It takes strength, God's strength, to be truly gentle.
Jerry Bridges

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

Jerry Bridges has been reading St John Climacus

I hope he didn't pass that off as his own thought. It's true as can be nonetheless.

I hear

you think Ron should be getting angry while debating, and feel alone because no else seems to express this opinion on DP. Is that correct?


you sound like a psychologist. :)

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Here's what's happening.

In each debate, more people are reached and converted.
The level of performance is not a big issue with people who are of the intelligence to pick up the message. More people convert each time, even if he has a bad night.

We also need to realize that there are factions that will never vote for him under any circumstance. They are the enemy.

So, we chink away at the armor, bit by bit, and there is more than a year left in this pre-election thing.
RP is polling in the mid-teens now, and he is going up all the time.
By primary season, RP will be the leader. These other goons can't stand there with him for long, because they are paper tigers who have no substance.

Has Ron Paul ever actually

Has Ron Paul ever actually lost ground in the polls?

I concur BigT

Well said.

"For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise." - Benjamin Franklin

Time for a reality check...


You don't know what you're talking about.

RP's poll numbers and base continue to expand just fine so your "insight" is moot and irrelevant.

I know I would appreciate it if you would not attempt to make an issue out of a non-issue.

"For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise." - Benjamin Franklin

Billy Jack's picture

I agree.

I agree.

Cos Cob, CT

ytc's picture

TheEchoPlaza, you want Ron P to be YOUR mouthpiece.

Why not express YOUR frustration of Ron's predicament of being ignored yourself individually for him. . . and let Ron be Ron?

In many ways I think spreading of Ron's freedom messages is most effectively accomplished in the Twilight Zone in the fog, under the radar so to speak, so the focus will be more on the messages rather than one messenger. That way, CIA/MIC will find no excuse to give the JFK treatment to Ron ;-)

Who cares.

You really told Ron Paul how it's got to be, didn't you? Congrats.

I think he is waiting

Alot of the other candidates are on there last leg. It isn't worth going after some one who won't be on that stage in 3 weeks. He had his best debate of 2012 last night. He spoke more clearly than past debates and had almost none of the typical stuttering that plagued him in the first few.

He has us backing him and knows he will be on that stage until the very end. I think he is saving his biggest punches for when there are only 4 or 5 left on stage.

Frustration understood:

Philosophical standpoint questioned. RP is a man of principle like, Jesus, ghandi and all the rest of the great leaders and enlighteners, jesus forgave the men that crucified him because the offensive was never his goal his goal was social change through ideology and demonstration of his ideology, freedom is not just fr you and me but it's for the hills too. TThe goal is to break the cycle of conformity by EXAMPLE! Do not participlate in the ape like feces slinging! being above the BS is much more prefereable to intellectuals, Intellectuals are the ones who usher in ideological changes. NOT politicians! i do wish paul could work on his rhetoric, but his rhetoric is truth! I wish he said after Perry was talking about getting rid of cancer, something along the lines of "As a governer and politician it is not your responsibility/job to cure cancer!, that is the work of scientist and physicians!Both practices and professions of which you are not qualified to participate in or influence by signing into law vaccinations that you yourself cannot analyze , and research because you are a politician and not a health care administrator! " that would have been nice and purely embarrassing to perry. but RP is giving the Americans the benefit of the doubt assuming they comprehend these fundimental priciples because he does, and that is obviously a strategy that has worked with us who support him, respecting our intellect, and something that has hurt others , flip flopping and covering their tracks with BS rhetoric! its the principle people EARN respect by showing it, not by combatting someone who they can beat to a pulp without making themselves look weak and defensive!

The realitiy is Ron is kicking butt

so check that no man.

Nah. First of all Ron NEVER

Nah. First of all Ron NEVER gets mad. Annoyed is about all he gets. Secondly, why would Ron get mad he is ignored? He probably got used to that 20 years ago. YOU are the one not used to it, and mad.
Third, when asked (finally) he comes in from an angle no one expects. When he talks too fast he does not finish his thoughts. He is doing great and wonderful. Just because he does not say what I think he should nor how I think he should somehow never stopped me from being a supporter. Lastly, I have found his performance to be really quite subjective. I have thought he did bad, people were on here RAVING at how great he was. Then I rewatched the tapes and could see I was wrong--he just did not do what I had thought he should have, at the time. :)
So NOPE. No agreement here.

Everytime you hear someone in

Everytime you hear someone in the media ripping on a nameless candidate for not being calm, they're talking about Ron Paul. Your ideas play right into their 'unelectable' scenario.

The tides are changing!

I'ma give your thread a thumbs up for using the term "yes- men"

in that we should never lose sight of the need to always think for ourselves. That said, I respectfully disagree with you if you believe it will help Ron Paul to engage in all the reindeer games. His refusal to stoop to mud-slinging is one of the many qualities he possesses that I admire. You are probably referring to a self-defense or righteous indignation brand of attack. That's a slippery slope though. The attack over the cause of 9/11 sounded like fake righteous indignation and most people saw right through it. "How DARE you, on blessed 9/11, post in your blog that ANY American could possibly be guilty of ANYthing whatsoever!? *wipe tear*" -Pretty weak. If RP TRIED to act a different way from his normal self, he'd sound just as lame I think. Maybe he's trying to avoid looking like the grumpy grampa. Remember when everyone was try to pi** off Obama to try to get him to break and look like "the angry black man"?