17 votes

Voting Machines

So, we all know that the voting machines are rigged. if we dont do something to fix it, even if we had all the support in the world, we will still lose. we need to start talking about this now. Perhaps we should encourage Ron to write an audit the voting machines bill. This is a serious topic that I dont see many people at all talking about. What should we do?




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Well, Ron Paul has been winning some straw polls by landslides

Those weren't rigged.

Dozens of online polls have Ron Paul destroying the competition. Those weren't rigged.

Heck, Texas closed their straw poll...losing lots of money. Why didn't they just rig the poll?

And since they don't so any papertrail so we can confirm, they don't even need to rig the machines. They could just type out fake results and read them.

Maybe the system/GOP leadership isn't as bad as we make it.

This might indicate that there are too many decent people in the GOP infrastructure for GOP cheating.

This REALLY makes me want to contact the GOP state orgs and even get more involved with them.

How?

Haven't the machines protected us from the evil hanging chads?

Try getting the sheeple to let go of that lie.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

Exit polling

As someone mentioned...also, canvassing and identifying every RP supporter in your precinct then making sure they get to the polls is even better..and check out how the delegates process works in your state. Here in PA. the delegates are chosen separately form the prez and they're unboaund so vote fraud is more difficult via machine.

YES - YES - YES

In the debates, RP needs to take this issue to task and most people would love him for that, because everyone knows that the machines are rigged.

He must cite for the audiance that "he needs our help and cannot win in a race in elections that are using rigged machines and the country will never have honest nor fair elections until the people take care of this issue."

The ONLY Reliable System I can think of is:

http://www.dailypaul.com/142228/they-say-that-the-definition...

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

You have not elected a President since Kennedy!

Yes, the elections have been fixed that long. The "Power Elite" (the Zionists/Rothchild controlled Banking Empire) has been in control globally for a long long time.

Being On the Right Side of History: Psalm 46:10

Het mad. Get organised.

You people need to stop talking about this, and take action.

I wish I could help, but I am from the UK.

In the UK we use a PAPER BALLOT at every election, for every vote. And they are and always have been hand counted.

Look at other countries. Google it, if your news does'nt tell you the truth. No one else but the USA, and maybe some proxies use the Voting Machine. Frightened yet?

We would never use them in the UK or elsewhere. Yes they allow rigging.

And does it not puzzle you all, that Ron Paul is now the official "front-runner"? He was in the last 2 elections also.

Then you all go to your voting machines, and your new winner is chosen. And you have the cheek to tell the world that you are 'the land of the free'? For shame.

You need to get organised, and get monitoring your vote. This is priority no1, and comes before anything else. Policies, money, truth, you will get your answers if you help Ron Paul.

So, don't let it happen a 3rd time. You saw how it was rigged for goodness sake, and if you value the freedom of your children, and want to live in a democracy, then act now, and get observing the elections. I do not think that you will get a 4th chance.

We The People even did a

We The People even did a lawsuit for this after the last election. I was part of it, and it NEVER got anywhere in the courts. What is even worse than the obvious fraud in NH and in LA last time is that there is a huge company, I think in NY, owned by MSM somehow who actually tallies all these votes and could be doing anything. THAT is the main hub we should all somehow watch. We even ended up paying something like $60,000 last time for a NH recount and it showed the votes were not even secured nor sealed, boxes had been previously tampered with..blah blah nothing happen.

Yep...

the mounds of evidence of voter fraud are nowadays just basically ignored. Not even on the radar...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Personally,

I'd like to see ALL electronic voting machines BANNED! Paper ballots, hand-counted!! I'm willing, FOR FREE, to help count votes in my area...with as many helpers, eye-witnesses in attendance as deemed necessary...

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

Thank you for posting this!

Thank you for posting this! Yesterday, I just wrote a friend of mine who is the head of my local Tennesseans for Liberty on this very subject. During the 2008 elections, I attempted to ask for a paper ballot at my local precinct to see what would happen (since we computerized voting with no paper trail whatsoever). With reluctance, the precinct leader got the envelope out of a van with the paper ballots then proceeded to call the county voting commission head to ask if she was to give me one. She was told no and then proceeded to point at a message written in big red letters on the envelope "FOR EMERGENCIES ONLY" with a snide smart alec facial expression. I told her I wanted to talk to the other woman so she called her back and let me talk to her. The woman was not very nice and said I couldn't have one. As I left, I told the people working there, "How do you know your vote counts if there is no paper trail? Computers can be easily manipulated." I used to work for a local ABC affiliate and called them up to see if they wanted to hear about it. They immediately sent someone to the precinct to interview me than they objectively interviewed the voter commission head of the county. I said only that computers can be easily manipulated and it would be nice to have a paper trail of some kind. That was it. The voter head tried to make it sound like I had complained because I wasn't allowed to vote which wasn't true. I had a lot of people later tell me they really liked me coming forward to say something but nothing changed. We still have computer voting machines with no paper trail. I remember the head of the commission did make a comment on air that they had had those machines for a while and I had not complained before. Actually, I only think I voted on this type only one time before and I didn't know they were going to have those. And they always lay low until it gets close to the primaries. That's when their excuse is, "well, it's too late now. You should've said something." That's where we are messing up. If we get on top of it now, maybe some places will be able to get a paper trail going. I know voter fraud can happen even with paper but the chances are not as bad because you have a lot of people watching. I certainly hope Dr. Paul will introduce a bill or something that takes computerized voting without a receipt or paper trail. Even an audit wouldn't be enough for machines like our's. I'm sure there could be programs made to manipulate the numbers even with an audit. And only certain people would know how to audit a computer which still makes the chances of voter fraud highly possible. Only a slow-counting paper trail is best I'd think. Why didn't they make the computerized voting machines in the beginning with a receipt to show each person's vote?? Seems like it would've made a lot of sense for people to know they have a copy. I hope Dr. Paul can come up with a bill to help prevent voter fraud with computers.

Thank you

for reinforcing the importance of this subject.

There have been a small handful, here, bringing this up over the last few years ... but to a less than enthusiastic crowd.

Paper Ballots, or all else will be in vain.

my 2 cents

Make voting a week long, 24-7 online. You login with your SS# and take all the time you like then hit summit and you can only vote once.
Post real time results.
If the online sport books can do it why can't we.

Online voting...

is a non-starter. Like the internet in general, it would be wide open to hacking, identity theft and fraud at every level. Online voting would be perhaps the most insecure unverifiable system possible.

Also, it would be INCREDIBLY expensive...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

The best way

and pretty much the only way, to prevent vote fraud would be to have paper ballots, hand counted, at the precinct level. Every location that people could vote at would tally up the votes they received on site, with representatives from as many different candidates as could be present, with a video recording of the process that gives a clear shot of every ballot counted.

Once everything has been counted in the precinct, they would report their totals to the county, and there should be a website where every precinct could report their total to, so everyone could verify that the totals were correct.

Of course, this would potentially be a very costly system, both for the materials and the actual manpower, but it would be much harder to commit fraud.

Not more expensive...

than the computerized machines and their attendant maintenance, transport and climate-controlled warehousing...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Vote Receipt

I'd like to get a receipt when I vote because it seems like the most effective way to combat vote fraud.

With a receipt we'd have the ability to count votes in the open with other voters, rather than have them counted behind the closed doors of those rigging the machines. There could even be a confirmation screen for us to check that the receipt matches our vote.

We get receipts for any other important transaction. It'd be a quick process and inexpensive technology already exists that's easy to implement.

My hubby suggested this in a

guest editorial for a patriot's website not too long ago. I think it is a great idea.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

:)

I'm glad others are talking about it because it's such a simple solution.

Vote absentee, if possible

tell all your friends about Lieboldly machines. ..... Start a petition drive in your state....

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Just an Idea

Because I am also worried about this. How about we try to get some supporters that are willing to stand outside voting locations and have a nicely printed up paper that anyone who voted for Paul could sign. I believe that anyone that votes for Paul is not going to care whether they stay anonymous. This at least would give us something to compare if the numbers were way off.

"I have found that being rich is not about having the most but about needing the least"

virus

Well if they cheat so can the people, these things are on some kind of connected network, therefore they can be hacked by anyone who can connect to the network. For this reason alone I'd think that voting machines would be a no go from the start. That being said, I know I've said it before but I think the easiest way to do this is to try to reach out to anonymous, odds are they can disable the machines well before voting day requiring a paper poll. That being said, hacking is illegal and I don't endorse hacking American computers from America.

No, they are not, or should not be networked.

Each machine (there are several models) records the votes onto some optical or magnetic medium. (I think they mostly use some form of solid state cartridge)

These "cartridges" are then inserted into a reader and the contents dumped to a "central tabulator" which is nothing more than a glorified EDITABLE spreadsheet.

*yes, I said EDITABLE.

The kicker, is that the vote can be edited and thus the cartridge forever changed.

So it doesn't matter if you hack the machines or not.

The vote can be predetermined and then entered onto the cartridge by whomever operates the central tabulator, and there will be no record of it. The actual vote is forever lost.

Voting

Hi, samadamscw. I was wondering how you know this information.

And, if what you say is true, what do you think about just doing absentee ballots instead of even touching the machines?

From lots of reading. BlackBoxVoting.org is a good start.

Then look up their sources, and their sources' sources.

I even looked into some manufacturer's info and literature directly to glean some facts of how they generally work.

Not all systems are the same, but all seem to follow the same basic model, just implemented differently.

As for absentee ballots, I don't trust they are counted properly if at all. As far as I know there is no decent chain of custody or tamper prevention measures in place, at least not in my state. Mileage varies by state though. Perhaps if a similar triplicate system but by sealed armed carrier were implemented for mailed ballots as for my "glorified receipt printer" idea, then perhaps I could trust them.

Truly though, I'm not sure I even agree with absentee balloting. If early voting is allowed for people anticipating being out of town, then there should be no need for absentee ballots being mailed out.

Military ballots are a different story. But if THEY can't handle chain of custody issues with duplicate or triplicate copies, we're in bigger trouble than I thought.

I know a guy...

who is contracted to do routine maintenance and prep on voting machines in multiple counties. He has keys to the warehouses and goes there unattended to service them. He has the unchaperoned opportunity to do whatever he wishes to the machines...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Not possible to address. At least not anytime soon.

The only peaceful way to fix this mess is for a larger number of Liberty minded candidates to conspire to run for office in the same election as if they were establishment candidates. This process would have to be repeated for several election cycles since incumbents have a 90%+ re-election rate.

Then, once they had a majority, they'd have to reveal who they are, and then abolish the damned machines and then prosecute those who came before them for fraud.

Now, how likely do you think that is going to happen? How likely do you think it will succeed?

Now, realize, this problem will not go away until and unless there is a revolution - and I don't mean figuratively, I mean like 1776.

The people in power will not give it up without an actual fight.

A little nanothermite would go a long way.

Diebold would think twice about rigging its machines if it knew a few thousand might turn into molten slag.

violence

Somehow I don't think that attacking the machines physically will make any difference. Peace is the best way. Is there any way to prove election fraud by releasing e-mail spools?

A spool...

is just a queue. Are you referring to possibly e-mailing vote confirmation to voters?

If so, then that won't work either because fake votes would have no person to complain. Also, the output of a digital device does not have to match the contents of a database or record of events.

If you input the command to a computer to give a vote tally the response could be to print out a single picture of a banana. You may respond that that is an absurd statement but computers do not inherently do logical things. They do whatever they are programmed to do which may or may not give output logically related to input.

The ONLY way to validate the output of digital systems is to know the input with 100% certainty. You cannot know the outcome of voting until after the vote and therefore the output of a digital voting machine is unverifiable.

The moment you insert a digital system into a voting process that voting process becomes insecure and unverifiable because digital systems do things that cannot be observed and they can be compromised at many different points in their subsystems, often by children.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

See below - it is verifiable because you do know the vote with

100% certainty, because EACH voter verifies his/her receipts themselves.

It is the verified receipts that are counted as the actual vote - not the digits in the machine.

Of course, it doesn't work that way now, we'd have to change it to that.