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People who live near mountaintop removal coal mining have cancer rates twice as high as people living elsewhere

In July, the Journal of Community Health published a study that found people who live near mountaintop removal coal mining have cancer rates twice as high as people living elsewhere in Appalachia. A peer-reviewed study also linked mountaintop removal to high rates of birth defects. Another study pegged the public health costs of coal in Appalachia at about $80 billion a year.
Mountaintop removal has been a controversial issue in Appalachia since at least the mid-1990s and coalfield citizens have long complained of health problems, and probable links to coal and rock dust from blasting and trucking, contaminated streams and groundwater, and toxic chemicals at coal preparation plants.
Implications of these findings are slow to sink into Appalachia’s political realm - which is heavily dominated by mining industry money. WVU’s economics dept. has doctoral fellowships named for the Koch brothers, billionaire owners of refining, oil and mining interests. The Koch fellows at WVU churn out papers that, among other things, cast doubt on whether mine safety rules are a good thing.

http://www.loe.org/blog/blogs.html?seriesID=1&blogID=17

Is Rand Paul a Kochhead?

Sen. Paul has introduced legislation to overturn current and block future federal regulations that ensure our health and safety. His bill, called the "Regulations of the Executive in Need of Scrutiny Act", also
referred to as the REINS Act, "reins" in the government but does not rein in the power of corporate giants like the Koch brothers.
Paul's legislation is designed to make it more difficult to implement safeguards, including those that protect public health, the environment, and food safety. It would shift decision-making from experts to politicians; allowing Congress to undermine existing laws
and enabling a majority in one House of Congress to void legal
protections while dispensing with the role of the other body and the
President. Thus the REINS Act represents a threat on several levels.

http://switchoard.nrdc.org/blogs/rperks/re

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wendell berry speaks on mountain top removal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgfMu2NxtZI

Berry is a great ecologist, agrarian, place-ist hero.

In light of the fact that constitutions don't effectively restrain the state, how is a limited state achievable?

Save up all your life to have a mountaintop home, then jerks

blast mountains around you and give you cancer.

Freakin blows.

Maybe I am looking at this wrong.

and I can't get the second link to work, but if "Sen. Paul has introduced legislation to overturn current and block future federal regulations that ensure our health and safety."

So, if federal regulations are in placed to ensure the health and safety why do "People who live near mountaintop removal coal mining have cancer rates twice as high as people living elsewhere"?

What does Federal have to do with land located in one of the 50 states; if the land is not federal land?

The reason people who live

The reason people who live near mountaintop removal coal mining have cancer rates twice as high as people living elsewhere is linked to coal and rock dust from blasting and trucking, contaminated streams and groundwater, and toxic chemicals at coal preparation plants. Evidently those things haven't been controlled very well at the local level. The implications of these findings are slow to sink into Appalachia’s political realm - which is heavily dominated by mining industry money - go figure.

And it looks like that page has been taken down. I guess it was too close for comfort for someone. Even so, how do you feel about other aspects of Paul's bill; one which enables a majority in one House of Congress to void legal protections while dispensing with the role of the other body and the President, and another that limits government's role in protecting private property? Seems to me that someone not only wants to "rein in" government while allowing corporate giants "free rein", but also wants to change the way the legislative process is legitimately supposed to work, as well.

-
"Stand up for what you believe in. Even if you stand alone."
~ Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."
~ Ron Paul
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

Okay, to the people near the mountaintops

I ask you; is the government acting for your protection or the corporations?
And what can you do about it? Action is needed, but what action is up to you.

As for the bill, I am not sure, but will go with my limited knowledge on the text and comment anyways. Are you saying that regulations equal legal protections? I see that when regulations are in place the corporations don't have to face the damage, they just pay fines or hide behind the regulations. Corporate giants already run free, how do you imprison a entity that exist only on paper and runs by the greed of people?

so not only dr paul is a mason, his son is a kook too now?

nice going kat

let me know when your issues settle

You say his son is a kook?

hmmm
Idk about that. Crazy like a fox, maybe... but I don't think he's a kook.

-
"Stand up for what you believe in. Even if you stand alone."
~ Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."
~ Ron Paul
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

Not worth it go LFTR Nuclear

Hey DP'ers. I'm not a big fan of fossil fuels, wind and solar for many reasons. I would like to share with you the second most important mission I have after getting Ron Paul into the oval office.

The nuclear industry is a government sham that supports monopolies. They picked winners and make us accept subpar technology. In the 1960's we were presented with two technologies. Light Water Reactors (LWR) and Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors (LFTR). The man who holds the patent for both LWR's and LFTR's was advocating for the LFTR because they are

1. Cheap to make (200 million)
2. No fuel fabrication
3. Can't make bombs with it
4. No long lasting waste
5. No cooling towers
6. About the size of your house
7. Not under pressure

And the government through regulation killed the more efficient and safe reactor.

also

While these sound nice and

While these sound nice and I've always been a fan of Tesla's work. I'm talking about proven technologies where the research is in the public domain. There was no conspiracy to shut this down, only a warmonger's dream of making bombs and not being embarrassed by a far superior technology.

I do appreciate you posting the information as

I have never heard of it and possible never would had if it wasn't for you. And even though it is in public domain and proven it is facing the same as most other technologies........Suppression of the information.

I have talked to several people in my own little world about it and they too have never heard of it. But they have now:)

Hey Danna, It's an issue that

Hey Danna,

It's an issue that I take as seriously as getting Ron Paul in the Oval office so spread the word. I'm going to be making a post about this soon on the DP and RP Forums because this is a really important issue. Feel free to bump it up when you see it =)

is an ordinary flame, a form of plasma?

can plasma employ magnetism?
Hmmm....

fire vs plasma...

Fire is a gas formed by the fuel as it is being oxidized(combining with oxygen). It is not electrically conductive.

Plasma is a gas where molecules begin emitting electrons. Plasma is electrically conductive and magnetically sensitive.

Fire is not a form of plasma...

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

electronic flame rectification.

a flame CAN conduct DC power. every HVACTech knows this.[or should..]
I got the idea from isis EAF, a fellow DP member I met, he is very smart and has a working water torch. [HHO] we are going to check and see if the flame from an HHO torch, can conduct electricity the way it does on propane and methane. [natural gas]

peace brother, I am only trying to share my admittedly limited knowledge.

Simply........

I do not know.

5. No cooling towers, 7. Not under pressure.

well that really is special!! ummm, how do they spin the turbine then?
and not to be rude, but are you aware of why, they are called "fossil" fuels?
LWR, and LFTR, are used to produce heat, to create steam, to squirt through a turbine.
or am I wrong on that?

peace.

Uses molten salts. Fluoride

Uses molten salts. Fluoride Lithium Beryllium combination. These salts melt at 400 C with goes to a heat exchange with a Brayton turbine, similar to what a jet engine looks like. They are really efficient, much more than steam turbines used in todays reactors.

Can't use a brayton style turbine with todays reactors because they aren't hot enough. They are stuck with steam turbines and high pressure.

a turbine, is a pump.

they can be both forward and reverse. [they can be powered by something, or, they can be the source of power themselves]

but heat and/or pressure are still required.

peace.

Pressure

The place where there is no pressure is the reactor vessel. In light water reactor (what most of the world uses today) because the process of burning the Uranium is not as efficient you can't get enough heat to use molten salts. That means your stuck with using water. Water boils at 100 C, and when water is steam it doesn't transfer heat well and 100 C is not hot enough to run a steam turbine. So they put it under HUGE pressure to let it get temperatures up to 300 C now they can use a steam turbine. Problem is if you loss the pressure water flashes to steam and expands in volume X 1000. Thats why reactors entailments are so big.

Because LFTR uses salts and it doesn't need to be put under pressure it cannot explode if there is damage to the reactor.

You are correct. A brayton

You are correct. A brayton turbine uses the heat from the heat exchanger and the expansion of a cold gas expanding which goes through a compressor causing high pressure, causing your turbine to turn. The gas then comes around, is cooled and goes back through to be heated again.

You should watch the video its very informative.

Thanks for the bump,

but I think you're missing the main points of the post - which are that (regardless of how you feel about nuclear power) mountaintop removal coal mining is causing disease, killing people and causing birth defects, while legislation is being proposed to rein in the government's role in protecting private property by making it more difficult to implement safeguards, including those that protect public health, the environment, and food safety, while allowing corporate PTB free rein.

-
"Stand up for what you believe in. Even if you stand alone."
~ Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."
~ Ron Paul
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

No I understand and I wasn't

No I understand and I wasn't trying to undermine your post and If you feel that way I'm sorry. I just get frustrated that our society can't get past our obsession with coal and fossil fuels. I took out rant on your thread. I do hope Rand hasn't fell victim to the Koch brothers because I'm no fan of them.

I do think you should check out the video though, you'll think its great.

Ok

Sorry I misunderstood! We are in agreement on these points, so please - rant away! ;)

-
"Stand up for what you believe in. Even if you stand alone."
~ Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."
~ Ron Paul
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

I

don't have much respect for "peer reviewed studies" especially in situations with heavy political overtones. What I do have respect for is the ability of free people to seek restitution for their damages based on court submitted proof or lack thereof. If we ask for government to take action in situations such as these......well we are living to see those consequences now and it's not pretty. The market seeks efficiency, efficiency alleviates pollution.

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

well they better hope...

Rick Perry isn't the next President. He'll order the state of West Virginia be vaccinated with Gardasil because he hates cancer.

WVU is certainly in the DP "news"--

today.

I am sad to read this; I don't disbelieve it. All I know is that a Rockefeller is the permanent senator for WV, and I find that . . . bewildering; it seems that there must be a reason for that, something ulterior.

As far as the Kochs go, I don't trust them either.

And, yes, personal liberties, such as being able to breath clean air, drink pure water, etc.--are paramount.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

This is a really good

This is a really good question.

Rand is against government intervention, but doesn't government have the obligation to protect one's private property? These coal-mining people have no right to damage one's health. They have no right to pollute the air everyone uses.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

That's right.

And they have no right contaminating our streams and groundwater, either.

"I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this any more!"
- Howard Beale