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The Thing About Ron Paul Supporters

The thing about Paul supporters is they embrace and put their hope in the person as much, if not more, than the philosophy. The ideals of limited government, cutting taxes, capping spending, auditing the Federal Reserve, fighting illegal immigration, getting rid of entitlements, strengthening our borders, and sticking to constitutional principles are what will save our country, not just supporting and voting one man into office. Ron Paul won’t save our country any more than any other one man will save our country. The principle which made our country great will save our country when we get back to these principles.

I agree with RP on constitutionally declaring war when our country faces an imminent threat. I agree with him on abortion, nation building, spending, the debt, the debt ceiling, immigration, taxes, and the Federal Reserve.

I disagree with him on the death penalty, Mirandizing terrorists and trying them In civilian court, and his unwillingness to put a fence on the southern border. Also his articulation of the blowback theory has become more apparent of blaming 9-11 on the United States. When I hear statements like, “Can you blame them?” it sounds like the language he uses is increasingly more accusatory of the U.S., instead of trying to understand the enemy for strategic purposes. I don’t believe right now it is feasible or necessary to put boots on the ground in Iran, but I do NOT support Iran having nuclear weapons, thus I fully support sanctions, tough dialogue, and verbal condemnation. He brought up the fact we had dialogue with the Soviets when they had nuclear weapons. What he fails to mention is the dialogue by President Reagan was tough, harsh, principled, threatening and unwavering, while Reagan sanctioned the Soviets.

I also disagree with him on the federal marriage amendment and DADT. We cannot expect God’s blessing and protection of our country while we cater to and become ruled by debauchery.



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You mention "God's blessing on our country"...

...I thought "God loved the world"? (John 3:16) Doesn't God love everybody, or does He just love Americans?

"I support the Declaration of Independence and I interpret the Constitution."

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The OP is banned

by Michael.
Let's let this offensive post sink off the page into oblivion where it belongs.

ahem

"unwillingness to put a fence on the southern border."
Free countries don't enclose their people in with a fence. Sorry. Cut off entitlements and that will go a looooooong way towards stemming the influx of illegal immigrants. We don't want to discourage people from coming here who want to work. We WANT people to come here and do that. That was one of the primary things that made the US so great. If you could get here and didn't have any communicable diseases you were allowed in. A light to the rest of the world.

"We cannot expect God’s blessing and protection of our country while we cater to and become ruled by debauchery."

Therein lies the plank in your own eye. Jesus did not side with the Pharisees in using the coercive nature of the state to enforce morality. The "lost" flocked to Him for that very reason and turned away from the Pharisees because they chose the path of coercion.

What you are advocating is Pharisaical in nature and is the exact OPPOSITE of what Jesus did or would do today. You (as well as many I know on the Religious Right)sit with the Pharisees, the enemy and murderer of Christ. Then you wonder why you are losing influence? Stop burning all the bridges to the lost and they might just come across them into the house of the Lord at some point.

"I do NOT support Iran having nuclear weapons"
Neither does Dr.Paul. The evidence shows that Iran does not have weapons. The IAEA as well as our own intelligence agencies say the same thing. Iran has every right under international law to make nuclear reactors. Period. Israel has yet to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Iran did. If anyone is in the wrong here it is Israel. They should be open and transparent about how many nuclear weapons they have obtained illegally.

"Also his articulation of the blowback theory has become more apparent of blaming 9-11 on the United States. When I hear statements like, “Can you blame them?” it sounds like the language he uses is increasingly more accusatory of the U.S., instead of trying to understand the enemy for strategic purposes."
He's not blaming you, nor I. He's not actually even placing blame period. He's reiterating what the 9/11 Commission and our intelligence agencies said. That's it. When he asks, "Can you blame them?" he is not inferring that they are justified in resorting to violence. He's coming to a logical conclusion based on the facts provided by the intelligence agencies. See, Dr.Paul is an actual Christian, not the apostate Pharisee kind that is very prevalent today, but the kind who actually believes he should obey the command of doing unto others as he would have them do unto him. When you objectively look at what our intelligence agencies have stated are the reasons for blowback, the only logical conclusion is to be aghast at the part our dear leaders have played in radicalizing and arming those people, propping up brutal dictatorships that have thousands of men, women and sometimes even children kidnapped, tortured, jailed and murdered. Our good buddies in Saudi Arabia (whom obama just signed the single largest arms deal in US history with) chop peoples heads off on TV. I'm sure that's exactly the kind of behavior that Jesus is proud of American propping up.

No, Ron Paul doesn't blame America. But this American (who has had multiple members of my family tossed into wars) blames people like you for 9/11. Your stance is rooted in jingoistic group think war propaganda perpetuated by ex-Trotskyites and corporatists. Your stance is in complete opposition to supporting our troops, obeying Christ and is the exact opposite of patriotism. It falls more into the category of nationalism.

The greatness of the United States is unique—and not a model to be exported by narrow-minded nationalists. "All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labor, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral color when committed by ‘our’ side.… The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." Orwell's quote is rather prescient today if you will but open your eyes.

The thing with Ron Paul supporters

is that they're like snowflakes- no two are alike. Our tent is massive and the one common denominator is a shared love for liberty.

Welcome

It sounds like you have a lot to learn. The good news is you have come to the right place.

I wish you all the best in the process. We are many here who can say from the bottom of our hearts that it is a wonderful journey. Enjoy.

Michael Nystrom's picture

"Mirandizing terrorists"

Oh, that is classic.

How do you determine if someone is a "terrorist" if you don't first "Mirandaize" them, then try them and determine the facts?

Oh well. I guess if that's how you think people should be treated. I declare that you're a terroist. No rights read. No trial. You're banned.

He's the man.

I can recognize a better person than myself, and respect them.

Yet the ideals are what speak to the people. Dr. Paul is a very humble man and is the first to say it is the message, and not the messenger that is important.

We torture people because they might know something. That concept includes every person on the planet. You assume someone is a terrorist because our government claims it is so. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Even when the accused is found not guilty in court our government keeps them locked away indefinitely. How can you call this justice?

Remember a wall in Berlin? Did it work well? Is that why it was torn down? Remove the incentive to come to this country illegally and people will stop coming.

If we were sanctioned, bombed, had our government destabilized by a foreign power and eventually overthrown we would fight back. Oh, wait, didn't we have something similar occur here in 1776?

On your disagreements with the good doctor.

The death penalty. I believe many people do deserve to be harshly punished for their crimes and sometimes I even feel like certain people don't deserve to live but there are flaws in our system in which many people are wrongly convicted.

In the USA, 17 people have been put to death who were later found to be innocent. Another 17 death row inmates were exonerated through DNA evidence. Those who have died at the hands the state have no further recourse. If the forensic technology can be flawed or over-zealous prosecutors can act to put innocent people on trial for crimes they did not commit then we cannot continue to use the death penalty if we truly have respect for life.

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Miranda rights. Now that Americans can be labeled terrorist behind closed doors and without the ability to defend one's name or to see evidence against them, you might want to reconsider your stance on "mirandizing" terrorist suspects because it might be you one day facing the charges. You never know, Ron Paul supporters have already been called potential terrorist by the DHS.

We have convicted hundreds of terrorist through our court system. There is no need to create a second tier system that is un-constitutional. This type of criminal procedure can lead to even more corruption and innocent people being railroaded into prison indefinitely. It's un-American.

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Border security. If we had our National Guardsmen out of the war zones and patrolling our borders we would not need a fence. Instead of protecting the borders of Korea and other countries maybe we should focus on ours. Very simple problem solved.

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9/11 Blowback. Although I disagree with Dr. Paul, about who is truly responsible for the 9/11 attacks, I will for the sake of argument accept that Bin Ladin and "Al Queda" are the perpetrators. What would you do if our country was occupied by a foreign regime? What would you do if bombs were dropped on your family and friends? What would you do if the will of others who had different philosophies on life were to impose their beliefs and force you to live under tyranny of their newly implanted despots? Would you rebel? I know I would. I would not have any other choice and I would do so with whatever means necessary.

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Iran having a nuclear weapon is not a threat to any country, especially the USA. It is a deterrent to countries who are actively working to undermine their government with outside forces (ie Israel). Israel is constantly threatening Iran and Israel has over 300 nukes provided by the US.

The US is currently sponsoring and using "Al Queda" in Iran, as a matter of fact, to create chaos and destabilize the controlling regime. How do you like them apples? We are turning over Libya to "Al Queda as well. This is another example of how this government of ours works. It's dirty and it's un-Constitutional.

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The marriage and homosexual issues are ridiculous. Do you know how many people have died in service to this nation who were gay? When it comes to marriage what does it matter to you? If two or more people of any sexual persuasion want to call themselves married and live as a family what business is it of anyone else? Focus on your own happiness and let other be free to pursue their happiness.

I think my God recognizes and forgives all our inequities so I will leave judgment to him.

Just one humble man's opinion.

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"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

Outstanding !

Absolutely outstanding address of the issues which express the mindset of many conservatives in transition.

I hope your cogent and measured response helps many to appreciate the liberty philosophy of Dr. Paul in its best light.

Thank you, Citizen Joe, on behalf of the cause.

While I disagree with you on all you points of disagreement,

I salute your courage to articulate them here at THE DAILY PAUL. You will likely be crucified.

I would, however like to ask you two questions. What does "indefinite detention" and "denial of due process" have to do with "family values"? Where is your empathy with those we have wronged in the Middle East, both before and after 911?