11 votes

Should I join the Airforce or remain jobless?

I am 26, have a BA degree, and was working a little while in the hospitality industry for a while until it got too expensive to live on my own, with student loans/car payments. So I had to move back in with my parents and now having a very difficult time finding a job in my area, and it doesn't pay well. So my parents are pressuring me to join the Air Force so I can get rid of my student loan debt, car payments easily, and have a career path with job benefits, and not dead end like the ones I had before. I really don't want to join the military, but it seems like I have no other options and I am a burden on my parents. My degree is in History, but I went to Culinary School afterwards because I couldn't find a job with my History degree and Culinary was something I always wanted to do, but the wage is really low and I can't move out of my parents house or pay my loans back. I would very much appreciate it if you guys can help me out with this with advice. Thanks.



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wolfe's picture

You should have kept reading...

Especially, the comments between myself and ATruePatriot, all the way to the end.

And war/killing is justified if in self-defense. Try to read them with an open mind, with the assumption that no one is attacking you for the choices you have made.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

I apologize..

I didn't read them all the way through. And my intention wasn't to guilt trip or single out, I promise, but just a personally opinionated observation. Ron Paul didn't initially volunteer because he admitted he was going because of the draft, regardless. It's the additional 3 years after the fact that he did volunteer. I can't speak for him, but I can only imagine it was because of a sense of pride he had in what he was doing. Not all jobs in the military are bad. I wasn't proud of what we were doing over there or why we were there, but when you are responsible for other Marine's lives and hold a leadership billet, there's still a sense of pride amongst the BS. The way I see it, we wouldn't want to discourage a bright young man from becoming a senator or congressman despite the corrupt powerhouse it has become, because at the end of the day, it's essential to this country. That congressman shouldn't be ridiculed or discouraged from wanting to pursue an honorable career path just because there is presently a negative image currently painted over it. He should be encouraged and embraced if his heart and mind are in the right place. And I don't have any doubt that Ryno.t's are. Again, just my 2 cents.

Sage

wolfe's picture

No worries...

And no need to apologize. The main reason I commented to you was that I was hoping that you would read it and realize that no offense was meant. And thank you for reading the thread, not everyone would have.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

*

*

This has been addressed several times already.

No. Don't join. You'll gain nothing and we'll have to pay you, though many of us don't want to.

Take a look at this;

"Go Ahead and Join"

http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance276.html

Read any stuff by Laurence Vance. He's pretty well addressed the modern issue of Christianity and being in the military or joining the military.

Take a look here- http://pastebin.com/UFVA1gv7

I know it's just in text format but there's a lot of stuff to read.

We have already settled this

We have already settled this dispute a long time ago. I couldn't get in anyway.

Early Christianity

I don't know what faith you are. I consider myself a christian and when I say that I mean 100 to 300 AD.

Do you know why the Romans hated Christians? They hated them because they would not fight in their armies because they thought that murder was murder. Thou shalt not kill applied to the military as far as they were concerned.

This is the real reason Christians were fed to the lions. Later,around 400AD, the Christian Church gave up the anti-war thing and merged with the Roman state. That is why you have the Roman Catholic Church. The state and the Church merged along with millions of pagans. This is why there are so many pagan traditions in all forms of Christianity today.

I will not support or condone our military. Military is for defense only. All the people who call themselves Christians now are mostly apostates and in league with satan. It is bad enough that I am forced to pay taxes to support their evil deeds, but I am forced to do that at a point of a gun so I can't blame myself for that. However, if you do anything to support the miliary beyond what you are forced to do through taxes, I am afraid you are on a slippery slope.

You would be surprised that

You would be surprised that many Christians fought in the Roman Army. In fact, the Roman Empire adopted Christianity. You heard about Constintine right??

Yes that is right

and after that Christianity died except with people like me IMHO.

Well I was a history major

Well I was a history major and I can tell you that prior to the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., Christianity was a very diverse faith, even more diverse then today. That was the reason for the council to stamp out all the beliefs the majority faiths considered "heretical." Some Christians prior to that time believed you had to be Jewish to be a Christian, because Jesus was Jewish. Others like the Gnostics believed in multiple gods, and Jesus was just one of these gods. Some, such as a man named Arius and his followers disagreed with the trinity theory, saying Jesus and God the Father were two separate beings. The ones who won the debate, stamped out everyone else they considered heretical, and rewrote the history of Christianity were the ones who believed in the trinity which were the proto-orthodox group that eventually became what is the Roman Catholic Church and also later the Eastern Orthodox church. The modern form of Christianity actually grew out of Roman Pagan beliefs. December 25th, was originally the birthday to the Roman Sun God Sol, who Constintine changed to the birth of Christ, for political reasons. The history of Christianity is not black and white. I've read a lot into this, it is one of my main interests.

Don't do it, Dude!..

..I'm an 8 year AF vet and if I knew then what I know now... The current military atmosphere is not what it is supposed to be. Hang on and if RP becomes president, then and only then should you sign up.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"- Homer Simpson

After the next

false flag there will be a push for the draft and you won't have to decide.

Personally, I would rather be homeless and free than under contract with Corporate Military War Profiteers.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Good luck, Ryno!

Good luck, Ryno!

Absolutely No.

Please, at least just watch this video before making your decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rlBFvHa2Nw

Remaining unemployed, you will still be more productive than if you joined the military.

The military, as much as we respect them, do not produce wealth.

It actually eats up wealth like all government functions.

If you really want to do something that will improve the quality of life for your fellow man, you should do something productive.

Even working at a Mcdonalds is more productive for society than joining the military.

Also, you will just be joining a machine that destroys human life.

Many like you decided at a young age, that they wanted to join the military, they had the noblest intentions.

They come home with broken bodies, minds and souls.

This machine destroys patriotic, good natured, optimistic people, and subjects them to the worst physical and psychological trauma we can imagine.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Veteran...

* Disclaimer: I enlisted in 1999 so some of this might be outdated but...

Words of Caution:

1. Don't believe ANYTHING your recruiter says unless you have it in writing. I can't repeat this enough. They WILL lie to you as once you're in the argument of, "my recruiter said" is useless.

2. National Guard? You can always enlist in the Air National Guard. Weekend warriors! This is the 2 weeks a year, one weekend a month gig. The good thing about going guard is that you have the option, after boot, to do the part time gig. Once you enlist as active, you're stuck and can't go guard until your term is up. However, if you decide you would like to go active after signing up with the guard nobody will stop you and you could probably get an additional incentive or two out of them. In the Air Guard you could also probably find full-time work on base if needed.

Good call on the Air Force. They have the best pay and the quickest rank advancement. I should have been an armchair ranger instead of spending days at a time in a tank. You won't have to kill people if you don't pick a job that requires it. Communication tech's don't see a lot of action on any front. I would also check into your degree qualifying you for officer training school. As a butter bar you won't have to do anything!

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

Do what you love

I would never try to tell my sons to do what i want them to do. I raised them telling them to do whatever they love and want to do in life because they will be successful and happy. They may not be rich but doing what you love is so much more important and so much more rewarding. Ask yourself if the military is your answer....it is for you to decide and no one else. This country was build on individuals like you and it doesn't come easy, it takes hard work and sacrifice. is it worth working two jobs? Sharing a cheap apartment with others and having your freedom also? Finding a small restaurant where the owner will give you a chance to prove yourself and work your way up to manager? Work towards owning your own business?

I have accomplished this with no help from anyone else....it is so satisfying to work hard, rely on yourself and be proud of what you accomplish. It's more difficult to accomplish this in this economy than when I was younger and you can blame our powers to be for that BUT it still can be done. Decide what is best for you and what will make you happy....the easy choice is usually not the right choice but everyone is different.

Just to let you know, both of my sons are sucessful and in different ways. My youngest son is a very talented musician and is living his life's dream. He lives in his van and travels around the country sharing his music with everyone that he can reach, seeing all the beauty this country has to offer and is so happy and so free. He only wants to change the world through his music. He gave up all material things and lives on the generous donations of others that appreciate his music. I am so proud of him.

I agree 100%

Do what you love - where there is a will, there is a way. Sounds like you don't have any children yet, so that gives you more options of moving to a different area where there is more work that you want to do. The cost of living is not the same everywhere, so you may be able to live by yourself, but it might be fine to get a roommate too. Many people do, and it is an ok deal for them. I'm sure your parents love you, and want the 'best' for you, but as the above poster noted, the 'best' does not always mean the 'most' material stuff.

Why would a person

that loves individual liberty, sign over the control of their life to any military. Especially the US Military and especially in a time of needles war.

Not all go to take lives

My daughter,just like Ron Paul went to save lives as a lifesaving medical Corpsman.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

wolfe's picture

I mean no disrespect...

And I do not want to offend you... But I do have to say this.

Voluntarily joining is NOT what Ron Paul did. He was drafted, and went.

If you save the life of a murderer, knowing that they will kill again, doesn't that give you some responsibility in the murders committed thereafter?

I am NOT trying to attack you or your daughter. I am just trying to open eyes. All functionaries, health care providers, logistic support, etc may not carry guns as weapons and actively participate in the murder, but they do facilitate it which makes them as responsible.

And no, I do not sympathize with soldiers on any side for any reason other than self defense.

I keep these opinions to myself when talking about Ron Paul to people, but at the very least WE should be educated on how to end these wars... And it isn't about electing politicians, it is about standing against voluntary slavery in a killing machine.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Two books you might be interested in

"On Killing" and "On Combat" by LT COL Dave Grossman. I think you'll find these pieces interesting, you can get cheap used copies on Amazon.com

"Freedom is Popular"

wolfe's picture

While I was recently in Delaware...

A former soldier was arrested for killing a 60 year old woman in her mobile home.

When asked why he did, he said, "I felt like killing someone when I woke up this morning."

She was entirely random and it was without provocation.

It seems like the change in a persons thinking process is what is covered in those books, so thought that was an interesting, related anecdote.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

You need to do the research

Your post is decribing a Criminal Act, not a "just shoot" it does not tie into "The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and Peace" but you should read "On Killing" first if you feel thats where the issue lies.

"Freedom is Popular"

Paul Did Volunteer

When he got his draft card, it was not a given that he would actually be drafted. He volunteered to ensure he could enlist as a medic and not have to shoot to kill. He said he could never shoot another human being, and didn't want to take the chance of being ordered to do so. When actually drafted, rather than volunteering, one didn't have the option to enlist as a medic.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

wolfe's picture

That is misleading.

My dad "joined" the Air Force, to avoid being drafted in as a grunt.

Joining to get into a better spot, is NOT joining voluntarily. It is in fact a form of being drafted.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Thank you

This is a very important difference,My daughter asked herself where she could be needed most as a caregiver.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

wolfe's picture

There is no draft.

There is no excuse.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Our beloved Reagan reinstated the draft...

Anyone born in 1961 or later,It is still in effect. Take a bit to check it out.My daughter was facing the possibility of this because of the ramp up of the war in Afghanistan.They had not yet done it but were threatening to start up again for this war.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Correction

Draft registration started under Carter in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.