11 votes

Should I join the Airforce or remain jobless?

I am 26, have a BA degree, and was working a little while in the hospitality industry for a while until it got too expensive to live on my own, with student loans/car payments. So I had to move back in with my parents and now having a very difficult time finding a job in my area, and it doesn't pay well. So my parents are pressuring me to join the Air Force so I can get rid of my student loan debt, car payments easily, and have a career path with job benefits, and not dead end like the ones I had before. I really don't want to join the military, but it seems like I have no other options and I am a burden on my parents. My degree is in History, but I went to Culinary School afterwards because I couldn't find a job with my History degree and Culinary was something I always wanted to do, but the wage is really low and I can't move out of my parents house or pay my loans back. I would very much appreciate it if you guys can help me out with this with advice. Thanks.



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I enlisted

...over drama, USN. No regrets, great experience. But in your case, apply for OCS. I am still defending the US Constitution and feel sorry for people who have not experienced military life. It's not peaches and cream, but the humbling you will get (and continue to get) will serve you well for your entire career, in any field.

I wouldn't recommend the Military even if your parents

Even if your parents are bothering you. If it's not in your heart then don't do it. You know in your gut what is right, then go with that. Coast Guard might be the safest route and non violent. Better check and make sure first.

You Might Look Into Credit Card Dispute Resolution

It's a decent entry-level job, and you can do a lot of good with the adjudicating powers the position carries.

There are a limited number of centers, however, so you may need to relocate.

Please feel free to contact me for further details. Glad to be of what help I can.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

You present a false set of choices.

You can:
A. Join the military.
B. Get a different job.
C. Remain jobless.

"C" really isn't an option-- avoiding life never solved anything.

You sound like you don't really want to take route "A" and really for the love of god if you don't want to join the military then DON'T. You're essentially signing your life over to the Government, if you have any reservations about that then I'd council you not to go through with it.

I'd compare it to getting married-- its a decision you really don't wanna screw up.

If I were you I'd go with option "B." It doesn't matter what you do at work: if you love the job great, if you're just doing it to pay the bills do that and don't get consumed by your work.

There are plenty of good jobs out there for people who are willing to relocate and work their asses off. I dipped out of CA and worked a night-shift tech job for a year to get my foot in the door in the field I trained to work in.

What ever you do don't get depressed, don't look down on any job no matter how shitty it seems, and never give up on looking until you find something you really enjoy.

Reading some of your replies...

... You don't seem to be very interested in changing your situation and you offer a lot of excuses for not taking some really good advice. Nobody can tell you what to do for a job, but anyone can make a decent living if they're willing to get dirty. Somebody mentioned North Dakota, the oil business is booming and they can't hire enough people to suck it out of the ground. The work is hard, but the pay is decent. If you're serious about getting out of the hole you're in go buy some work boots. Have a career that fulfills you emotionally when you can afford to do so.

If I burn to many bridges I'll never get off this awful island.

I heard that it's not just

I heard that it's not just the oil fields...it's everyone that is haveing trouble finding workers. I was told that the starting pay at McDo's is 12.00 - 15.00 an hour. The drawback is in finding housing. They have tent cities sprouting. I have not confirmed any of this. It is just what I have been told.

First rule of holes...

The first rule of holes: when in one, stop digging.

The first law of trains: if you don't want to get hit by one stay away from the tracks.

These 2 maxims assist me greatly through life.

When you are in a pickle (I can speak from experience knowing what it is like to be cold and hungry) it is important to distance your mind from your immediate situation and concentrate on possibilities and solutions. Unless somebody is going to die because you don't pay your debts stop worrying about them (yes I have defaulted on debts). Consumer loans are no big deal unless you have a co-signer to piss off. In any event there are ways to get creditors to take a leap (search Micheal Mirras). Student loans are different and can linger forever and prevent opportunities, the key here is communication with the loan agency. Explain your situation and get them to extend payback.

As for the Air Force, at 17 I started to sign up and the libertarian in me quickly realized the the government would soon own me. I did not like to be told what to do and when to do it. I have friends and my father that were in and loved it. So I can't help with this decision.

I can tell you what has always work for me. I started working at 17 and have been steadily employed for 33 years have at least 20+ different jobs. Total time off with no work about 6 months. The key: see what everyone else does and don't do that.

Think outside the box. Get on yellow pages (dot com) and search for every kind of business in a 20 mile radius that could be interested in working for. Write a form letter (make sure to personalize it to the business) and send by email, fax, or snail mail. Write as many as it takes. I once got a call and guy said to me "how did you know I was going to look for someone like you?"; I got an interview.

You've got a skill, trade with people. I got 15K dental work over 11 years trading with a dentist. Again, I did it with a form letter -- 42 dentists I sent to.

You got to make contacts, the more people you meet, the more opportunities will come.

There are 3 doors to employment: the front door, the side door, and the back door. Forget the front door that's where the completion is. The back door is someone you know, friend or family that can get you in. The side door is the way you approach the employer and set yourself apart.

Be different, be bold but not arrogant. Interview the employer. Stand up, stand out, and ALWAYS go the extra mile.

Do you like killing brown

Do you like killing brown people?

Thats not OK

There are some terrific people in the Air Force, and as a whole, the provide a tremendous service to this country. Feel free to question his motives, but that question is bullshit.

If I burn to many bridges I'll never get off this awful island.

So, is there a box you can

So, is there a box you can check on the enlistment form that says you won't have to kill people in 3rd world countries? What do you think he's likely to do in the Air Force? Dress up like a clown and serve ice cream? The job in the US military in 2011 is to kill brown people. If you volunteer to participate in racist wars, then in my book you're not a terrific person.

You're cluless...

If you don't know you shouldn't talk like you do.

When you enlist in the military you enlist for a specific job. Mechanics, cooks, communication techs, etc. are all possibilities in the military. We don't send cable guys to kill terrorists in caves.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

Correction

The job is the US military is to obey orders and defend the constitution of the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

If your ordered to engage against an enemy, you're expected to follow them.

I served along side of many brown people, besides, skin color has nothing to do with this. My grandmother was a brown person, get over the guilt.

Since the 1890s US foreign

Since the 1890s US foreign policy has been to eliminate indigenous peoples who occupy lands where coveted resources exist. If your gramma controlled coveted resources, they'd come for her too. Stop living in a fantasy and wake up. I understand what the advertisements say, but that's not the reality of the tasks the military has been assigned for the last 120 years. It's not even about race. It just happens that most poorly defended countries that are wealthy in resources are populated by brown people, making it easy to sell the wars to white Americans. If the job of the military is to defend the Constitution, then our military is a total and utter failure.

Don't confuse policy

with the lower ranks taking orders. I've been there and done that. I know what its like. You obey and your swear and oath to do so, as well as defending the US Constitution. This is the job of the soldier, sailer etc. The DOD has to apply and execute policy, however misguided it may be.

If you don't like the policy, then please vote. Don't blame the soldier or call him or her a brown person killer. There are a higher number of minorities, compared to the general population in the military anyway.

If you know the policy is to

If you know the policy is to kill brown people, and you join anyway, then you are as guilty as the policy makers. If you're ignorant of US foreign policy, and you join with no clue as to what you might have to do, then you're just dumb, which is excusable but nothing worthy of praise. Would you join a gang that kills people for profit? If you would, you might qualify as a psychopath. Joining the US military with full knowledge of their activities is no different. Would you join a gang whose activities were unknown to you? If you would, you might be dumb but it's forgivable. Same thing applies to many of our brave soldiers. Your talk of following orders is the same excuse the Nazis used at Nurnberg. They all hung. So will Americans who follow criminal orders, if justice ever prevails. Under international law, it's the responsibility of the soldier to refuse an unlawful order. If they don't, they are considered just as guilty as the ones who give the orders. Keep that in mind when advising people to join the military.

So if

all of the members of the Air Force went home after dismantling all of our nukes, then Russia would never want to shoot one at us?

They probably wouldn't, not for a long time, but someday they might. From the perspective of an ICBM, Russia is a border threat. The Army - well, there is not threat of an invasion along our LAND borders. But it is prudent and moral for a country to keep forces prepared to dispense organized violence against potential threats as a deterrent.

Our overall policy is bad, but our military is still necessary. This is especially true of the Air Force. Bombing 'brown people' wouldn't be the end of the world as long as we didn't go in an occupy their country or send in the CIA to overthrow it. If all we did was bomb people, we'd quickly stop doing it in those cases where we didn't need to.

Bombs speak to the true use of military force: organized and direct violence. Bombs can't control people, only kill them. Armies, money channels, these things are for controlling. But a country that offers no military threat? You can only bomb it so long, and the people there can only shrug.

By the way, if Iran did acquire a nuke, and we did have legit intelligence that they wanted to sneak one into America (not yet the case, so let's not encourage them to at the moment), then absolutely we should bomb them.

If they closed the strait of Hormuz, then we should bomb and torpedo their blockade. We're provoking it right now - unfortunately - but if they're attacking our free commerce - in theory we would be obligated to counter.

Our government is not run by Nazis. They are bad, but not systematically murdering people. If you see fit to still LIVE in this country, it is still worth DEFENDING. If you want to join the military - pick a job you can get behind. Medicine is one. But maybe you want to work with rockets, or maybe you want to contribute to R&D. You can't pick exactly what you want to do, but you don't have to join the Army which mostly ONLY is occupying places right now. Although, the Army does run anti-air defense.

If you know you are not comfortable in the infantry, don't join the Army. Give money and campaign for and vote for those people that support a good foreign policy. There's not much else to it. Join if you want to join. If the right people are elected, and your position is eliminated, find a job elsewhere. There's no way for you to determine if a potential military job is moral, necessary, or not.

trades

Outside of more education, the air force will also give you training in a trade and whatever trade you are taught you will perform that job for your enlistment. AF does not have infantry. Whatever training you get will be put into fruition with that specific career. You will have to be flexible with your jobs, but at the end of the day you will pick a job that you qualify to perform. Most jobs in the AF are not combat related. Unless you are a cop or in a combat job, you will rarely fire a weapon. I've fired one once in 8 years on the job in basic trg. AF is the only branch that has a community college. All of your training in your trade that you are taught is applied to a 2 year degree program in that trade. When you watch all of those tv ads about devry or your local community college etc...you might as well be watching a community college of the air force ad because it is the same training. Best of all you get paid to go and have a job and degree waiting for you once you complete the training. Sound to good to be true? I thought so myself. It is hard to believe. Of corse it isn't advertised all over the television because the AF has people waiting in line for a slot to open.

Don't tell anyone else... But

Don't tell anyone else...
But you should teach English abroad.
Korea in particular has great pay and benefits:
Paid flight there and back
Avg $2,000/mo pay
Low cost of living

It can be tough, but it's a great adventure and can be a great career. But don't tell anyone else, we don't need to be flooding the job market ;-)

A Friend Of Mine Did This In Japan And Indonesia

and loved it.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

this

Is absolutely right. All you need is a 4 year degree and you're golden.

Obviously, it is a personal

Obviously, it is a personal choice. Make sure you do it for the right reasons though. It is a commitment and it will completely alter your lifestyle. The Air Force is a great branch and the military has great benefits. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Your statement about not wanting join, but you need the money makes me think "no" you shouldn't join. Still, it is your choice.

I know many people that have loved it and others that have regretted it. Everyone is different.

I agree 100%

People join for different reasons. You don't have to be the most patriotic person. Whatever your reasoning, basic training(for officers and enlisted) will teach you the Air Force core values. I joined only because I wanted free education. I left basic training as a proud member of the Air Force and had a new family. I agree with letsgoron though. You want to make sure you are 100% committed. If you are not you cannot be successful in any military branch because you will be challenged beyone belief, specifically in basic training. After basic it is smooth sailing.

Be weary of Recruiters

They tend to BS just to get you to sign the bottom line. You should qualify for Officers Candidate School (OCS) with your degree. AF may have a different name for it. You'll come out as an Officer. Better life for you. Good luck to you and your decision.

GEAUX RON PAUL 2012.

not air force

Air Force recruiters will bluntly dismiss you if you don't qualify or have what it takes to get in. Air Force Officer Training School has about a 10-20% selection rate. It will take you over a week just to get a return phone call from an officer recruiter. The Air Force is downsizing especially among officers. Your best bet of getting selected as an Air Force officer(with the OTS program) is either knowing someone powerful or being an electrical engineeer. Outside of that good luck!

why not?

Don't listen to people that do not know what they talk about. Listen to Airmen that serve or have served. That is what got me into the Air Force and that is why I stay. Death? lol that is not a reason. you have a greater chance of dying in your vehicle on the street that you live on than dying in the Air Force(while deployed). Yet people get into motor vehicles everyday because they are comfortable. If you turned on your television and saw nothing but pictures of car accidents everyday you might be more fearful of getting in your car. People are nervous of the military because all they see are the negatives that are reported and the garbage that people talk about. Take it from me. I grew up impoverished and had nothing going for me after high school other than getting into trouble or being a status quo member of society. Now I enjoy a great life in the Air Force. I am 28, own my own home in a nice neighborhood, and have a wonderful family. In my childhood my parents always told me to never join the military and they did not support me when I joined the Air Force. They could not have been more wrong. Not because they were bad people, simply because they lacked ensight like most americans do. Regardless of what people say, someone has to step up and serve. And it is not as hard or bad as people think that it is. If you haven't done it yet I strongly consider that you talk to someone aside from your parents.

DO NEITHER...Go find a job. And I don't say that to be mean...

...I say it for 2 reasons:

First; Because it might save your life...

Second: Because unless you support our flawed foreign policy, if you join the military, you WILL sanction our policies regardless - just by joining.

You will be used as a tool by the banking elite to fight wars, occupy nations or be in a standby position to do any other mischief they decide on.

You will not be used to defend this country.

Because our policies are not about that anymore.

PLEASE - If you are still unsure, read the book "The Creature From Jekyll Island" to see how wars are started and funded.

It could save your life.

Because if you join the military, then your life won't be your own anymore, but will belong to the central bankers of the world who fund both sides of conflicts and profit no matter the outcome.

This is what I tell my nephews who are all gung-ho to join the army.

Don't despair; In time you will get a job because you are an intelligent, Ron Paul supporter who "gets it."

It will take a lot of effort, but the easy way out could get you killed.

Hope this helps.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

I agree with your recommendation

But have you ever been really Tired,Cold and Hungry?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

"But have you ever been really Tired,Cold and Hungry?"

Enlist today and experience all three!!! In an all expenses paid trip to boot camp.

/kidding around
... but seriously ;p

Very close to the truth,lol.

Seriously though there is a strange thing that happens,All reasoning goes out the door as the limbic system goes into survival mode to protect the funtions of the hypothalamus.

It is just built in with no control over it.Basic survival instinct per say.Been there,Done that.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

If you feel this is your only option...

If you feel this is your only option, then consider joining the Navy as a Corpsman.This is what my daughter pursued while in the service for 5 years.She was able to do the very same thing that Ron Paul did.She went in the service to SAVE lives,Not TAKE lives. She now has a very good career as a surgical tech in the civilian world. The irony is when she did her over seas duty it was in Naples delivering babies.The Navy and Marines have a LOT of Babies! LOL!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.