13 votes

The I agree with Ron Paul on everything except Israel argument

***As the one that wrote this I respectfully ask, stop fussing back and forth if you aren't Christian and don't know anyone that is, go read something else it wasn't written for you. Find another way to help Dr. Paul get elected and do something useful with your time. The ones that like myself that are Bible believing Christians can use this for a good. The reason I wrote it is to show a big chunk of people that would vote for Paul except for this one issue what the Bible which they claim to believe says about it. If you don't believe it then that is up to you, you aren't helping anything by fussing. You want to be an atheist be one, you want to fuss about it go to another thread. *****

Christians have been hoodwinked into the "stand with Israel" replacement theology. It is again a case of folks relying on others to do their research and thinking for them. What follows is not about Israel being an ally or anything else, it is just a refute to the whole idea that it is based in Biblical teaching, and since a big chunk of folks that say they agree with Dr. Paul on everything but this could use some help here it is:

Talking to folks about politics, they always bring up Israel. Where is it in the Bible that it says we as a nation or that any nation is supposed to fund and protect the political State of Israel? I think that it is nothing more than a replacement theology for political purposes rather than for God's purposes. Now before you call me anti-Semitic, look up the words definition.

Semite: a member of any number of peoples of Ancient Southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

Also I am working under the premise that I believe, and that God's word tells us: 2 Timothy 3:16, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," all scripture is from God, and the Bible does not ever contradict itself, because God does not contradict himself.

Also I am not talking about them being an "ally in the middle east" I mean where in God's Holy Word does it say, protect Israel or stand with Israel? After all, that is supposedly one of the things we have to do isn't it?

God made a covenant with Abraham he would be the father of many nations, Genesis 17 , and the covenant would go through Issac and that lineage would be traced through Issac. Then in Genesis 21 after Abraham sends away Ishmael and Haggar, God comes to Haggar and tells her in verse 17,

"17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”

Now go back to Genesis 16: "11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. "

Did you catch that? "Dwell in the presence of all his brethren" . Now there is a lot more to get into in the Old Testament regarding this, here is one last thing Exodus chapter 19:

"5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

That is God speaking to Moses about the Hebrews that he was then leading from Egypt. Again these are the ones whose lineage was traced through Issac. These are the Jews, the Hebrews, the Orthodox Jews of today. But there is something very important in Exodus 19 verse 5 we need to read: "if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine."

Did the Jews keep their part up? Did they obey God's voice and keep his covenant? And, as Christians don't we operate under the "New Covenant" the one Jesus spoke of? Luke 22 verse 20: "this cup is the New Covenant established by My blood it is shed for you." Who are the heirs to God's Kingdom? Who are his people? See Galatians Chapter 1 verses 6-10,

"6 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ, [and are turning] to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another [gospel], but there are some who are troubling you and want to change the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him! [c] 9 As we have said before, I now say again: if anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him! [d]

10 For am I now trying to win the favor of people, or God? Or am I striving to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ." Are we as Christians striving to please God with support of the political State of Israel or man? This next passage is Paul writing in Galatians again, talking about the man Cephas, and himself both who were born Jews, and again writing under the words of God not his own. Galatians Chapter 2 verses. 15-21:

"15 We are Jews by birth and not "Gentile sinners"; 16 yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. [f] And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ [g] and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will [h] be justified. 17 But if, while seeking to be justified by Christ, we ourselves are also found to be sinners, is Christ then a promoter [i] of sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild those things that I tore down, I show myself to be a lawbreaker. 19 For through the law I have died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; 20 and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the flesh, [j] I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing. "

Now the entire Chapter 3 of Galatians:

1 You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you, [a] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed [b] as crucified? 2 I only want to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? [c] 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh? [d] 4 Did you suffer so much for nothing—if in fact it was for nothing? 5 So then, does God [e] supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? [f]

6 Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, 7 so understand that those who have faith are Abraham's sons. 8 Now the Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, All the nations will be blessed in you. 9 So those who have faith are blessed with Abraham, who had faith. [g]

Law and Promise

10 For all who [rely on] the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written: Cursed is everyone who does not continue doing everything written in the book of the law. 11 Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith. 12 But the law is not based on faith; instead, the one who does these things will live by them. 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree. 14 The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brothers, I'm using a human illustration. [h] No one sets aside even a human covenant that has been ratified, or makes additions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say "and to seeds," as though referring to many, but and to your seed, referring to one, who is Christ. 17 And I say this: the law, which came 430 years later, does not revoke a covenant that was previously ratified by God, [i] so as to cancel the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is from the law, it is no longer from the promise; but God granted it to Abraham through the promise.

The Purpose of the Law

19 Why the law then? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise was made would come. [The law] was ordered through angels by means of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not for just one person, but God is one. 21 Is the law therefore contrary to God's promises? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly be by the law. 22 But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin's power, [j] so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24 The law, then, was our guardian [k] until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. 25 But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, [l] 26 for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Now don't miss verse 27 of Galatians Chapter 3:

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.

Could the same be said of us foolish Americans, could it be asked who hypnotized us? There are many more places in the New Testament that tell us these same things. I have not found any thing that tells us that we "need to stand" with the political state of Israel" instead the Bible tells me that due to the Grace of God given to me through Jesus taking on my sin and dying on the cross that I am Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the Promise. It also tells me that Ishmael's decedents are going to be living among their brethren and will have his hand against them. Does it tell me to kill them or fight them? Or does it tell me to share the Gospel? Matthew Chapter 28 Verse 18:

"18 Then Jesus came near and said to them, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of [f] all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, [g] I am with you always, [h] to the end of the age."

So we are told to "stand with Israel" who is telling us this? God, or man? Who is to be obeyed God, or man? Did Paul have a better understanding of God's word since it was revealed to him by God, or does Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Romney, Perry, Cain etc. have a better understanding of God's word? We are told "to stand with Israel" because it is in the Bible, where is it. It is a replacement theology that is politically motivated not Scripturally motivated.

Why are we so quick "to stand with Israel" and support the anti-Christ? 1st John Chapter 2 verses18-23:

"18 Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard, "Antichrist is coming," even now many antichrists have come. We know from this that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. [f] 21 I have not written to you because you don't know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? He is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well."

Folks read God's word, don't rely on others to tell you what it says and means, read it. How many times in the Old Testament, the New Testament and after the death of Christ and resurrection of Christ, were the Jewish people and the area now called Israel overrun? Read the Bible, all the Earth is God's not just a strip of land in the modern day middle east called Israel. And as it says in God's word who are Abraham's seed and heirs to the promise? Galatians 3:27

"27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise."

My point is that all this hoopla about "standing with Israel" is not based on Scripture it is based on money and power and is not of God it is of the world.



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Thanks to the Lord for saving me!

Lawson, you can be saved today if you want. I'm reminded that those that react to the message of God's grace the way you have are probably saying they need to be saved.

God bless you. Read my first message again. Think about why you would make such a long message to a off-hand comment about being saved.

I mean, I wrote a two sentence message basically giving thanks to God for saving me!!!

You can be saved too. God loves you.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I trust that by God's grace I am being saved.

I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour but I retain my God given free will, including the ability to refuse His will. I struggle daily to participate in God's grace.

And you aren't the only one...

I believe, though I disagree on eternal security, that the Christian life is to be worked out as He works it in us. Eph.2:8
There is a dynamic tension between the security the believer has and the passages that refer to our being judged by our works. What joins them together is the principle, 'Without me, you can do nothing.', and John 10. (not to mention Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, angels nor demons, neither what exists nor what is coming, neither powers above nor powers below, nor any created thing can separate us from the love of God which comes to us through Christ Jesus.)

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Skipping forward a bit....

"Peter, what I have made clean, you shall not call unclean".

And Peter said "even the pork ribs with tater salad and corn on the cob?"

And verily the spirit of the Lord spoke unto him saying "the proper way to do it is with your fingers dig in my man".

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

And the eyes and fingers

shall melt with ferverent heat.
Please do not get your fingers burnt.

Purpose of thread is good

For many people, it has to be shown to them through Scripture. False doctrine has crept in unawares, and Scripture has to be used to shed light on it.

The purpose of this thread is good. I've been preparing myself for doing just that as well.

PS - I use the King James Version. For Galatians 3, I think "who has bewitched you" says it better in english than "hypnotized". FYI.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Check out what's missing, Max

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,...Gal.3:1

Check this out. Those seven words, "that ye should not obey the truth", are MISSING here, just as they are missing in the New American Standard Version, (NASV), without ANY footnote or explanation!

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God 2 Cor.2:17

Modern translators are among the "many, which corrupt", making money by their honorable-sounding scholarly titles for their publishing new bible translations that must be changed no less than 6% from other translations to collect on their copyrights.

The love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim. 6:10

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

Thanks for the reminder.Yes,

Thanks for the reminder.

Yes, the modern versions are corrupt, and sometimes completely so in places - saying things the opposite of what the Bible actual says.

You can get lists that compare passages from different bibles to see they don't say the same things. In fact, you ought to. The changes usually are vital ones like grace, the divinity of Jesus, etc.

Edit: Found it - nice table if you need to start looking at the differences:

http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html

These corrupted versions are very systamtically removing the same important doctrines from verses throughout the Bible, removing entire verses, casting doubt on whole chapters, etc.

Different lists is:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/BibleVersions.html
http://www.kjv1611.org.uk/New%20International%20Perversion.htm

Looking around for an article I remember with a nice table showing the consistent removal of things like the diety of Christ, the blood of Jesus Christ, removing hell, etc.

You need the real Holy Bible in a time like this so you can have it to study.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I can give you one better

This site was created by a friend of mine who taught me much on the subject. I've linked to the page where the study on the unique aspects of the KJV are explored and explained.

http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/kingjamesbible.htm

As the subtle serpent ssseduced Eve in the garden with his doubt-casting, "Ye hath God said...?"; many with false scholars and pastors are the main perpetrators of this constant undermining tactic to the final authority found only in the record of God's words that He not only inspired, but preserved to this day.

Check out the Liberty quotes page and the Declaration of Marriage page links from the same site for good examples of the great content inside:

http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/LIBERTY%20QUOTES.htm

http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/A%20DECLARATION%20OF%20MARR...

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

We'll have to post the rest

We'll have to post the rest to keep in context what truth is not being obeyed:

Galatians 3
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Then go defend Israel

I believe in G-d and accept Christ as my saviour. There is nothing in the bible that commands America to save Isreal.

There is no reason non Christians should have to defend Israel.

My savior was nailed to a cross. In those horrible moments he didn't sware revenge. He didn't ask believers to rise up and smite those responsible. He ask G-d to forgive them.

I don't find any words directly attributed to Christ calling on me to make war. When it is time to make war he will return until then I will practice living my life in a peaceful fashion. Whatever Israel is in the bible or is to you in this day, I see a war making country and I an confident that G-d will resolve this issue without any help from the USSA.
Peace

Liberty = Responsibility

Actually he was nailed to a stake.

You would know this if you cared about Jesus at all. If you cared about Jesus at all you wouldn't be so ignorant of his actions and words.

Why do you say such a thing to a believer.

We do not know everything or we would be GOD.
Jesus didn't send a rebuke in this tone either and I excuse myself from having to do the same . Love ya.

My $.02 (or, what the Penny's Worth)

1. ( I am a believer in Jesus, and all doctrines necessary for true faith in Him, yet I only qualify to answer this by God's sovereign grace...to start) The best policy is the Ron Paul policy: genuine friendship with all nations willing to be equal partners in peace. This excludes entangling alliances: No alliances because of oil, or the future potential to 'control,' whether through foreign policy, or the use of aid as a 'bribe' to control who another nation may or may not make make an allegiance with. (See RP's book, The Revolution, A Manifesto, (pg. 38-40)

2. Arguing about eschatology often creates more heat than light. One of biggest difficulties rests on the numerous passages that relate to the issue, and how many books they are scattered through. Another one, and perhaps a far greater one, is the bias and potentially erroneous teaching we read into the Scripture.

3. I prefer, when I am able, to give as much ground to those who differ with me as I can. I admittedly have a strong bent on this one. I firmly believe that:(Romans 11)

"I say then (Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles) Hath God cast away His people? God Forbid! For I am also an Israelite, of the God of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God has not cast away His people which He foreknew. ...Even so at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace......But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. He goes on to describe the present position of many Jews in his day: unbelief. He asks the rhetorical question next: "Have they stumbled so that they should fall? (i.e. permanently) Then in the strongest of terms he says: "God forbid!":but (purpose clause) rather through their fall salvation is to come to the Gentiles, for to provoke the Jews to jealousy. (jealousy of what, you may ask: Jealousy of the personal relationship we have through their and our Messiah!)

I saw an amazing example of this, on of all things, a Jewish channel. The rabbi was bemoaning the emphasis of Judaism on rules and regulations. He was jealous of the 'Father/ Child' relationship his Christian friends had with God. He even said we need to claim again, "Jesus is for the Jews!" I about fell out of my seat! Do you as a believer realize that "If the casting away of them be the reconciliation of the world, what shall the receiving (back into fellowship with God) be but life from the dead!!"?

Paul goes on to say, "If some of the branches be broken off (of a cultivated tree, Israel) and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in, among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree: Boast not against the natural branches! But if you boast, then (remember) you barest not the root, but the root thee.

You may say then,"The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. (Granted!) Well, (However) because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith! Be not highminded (haughty) but fear. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

I will not take the time to type the whole passage here, but for those willing to read it , it is clear enough.

Reply requested, e-mail or here, thank you.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

This is the very point of discussion.

WHY would believers want to help someone in the unbelief.
It's not of GOD Jehovah.

If you want to return to Israel and their law, you will find that it is GOD Jehovah that brings blessing or curse upon Israel depending on their actions. Deuteronomy

They are in unbelief, therefore are under a curse from their own G-d. America, if Christian, should not be helping promote unbelief; though we should treat the unbeliever as a neighbor or friend. As ourself and not better than ourself.
We cannot afford ourself, so how can we afford Israel? Or any one else?
They need to stand on their own two feet. And let the Palistinins stand on theirs'. If they want to blow each other up then have at it. Our concern then becomes allies on both sides. Can we also trust them to stay out of the fight?
So you see there is more to the problem than simply Israel.
The problem is that the U.N. of yesterday no longer exists. We have the U.N. of today. An altogether different entity than that which created Israel in 1948. There-in lay the problem. What was considered peace yesterday, is no longer considered peace. So much for the U.N. idea. PEACE is relative to time.
That is why ONLY the Prince of Peace can bring peace, for HE transends time. That is why he will be faked. A good fake is their only option to the real personage of Christ Jesus. They are way ahead of most of us on this agenda.

define help,

If you read my whole post, I stated my agreement with the idea of not giving them (or their enemies) aid from our government. I may have a different reason than you would for taking that stand, but I take it nonetheless. And I agree entirely that the UN is a farce (at one time it was not so much of one, but when oligarchies such as Russia and China, have the same veto power as free nations..) and we should get the UN out of the US and the US out of the UN.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

As the one that wrote this I request respectfully

stop fussing back and forth if you aren't Christian and don't know anyone that is, go read something else it wasn't written for you. Find another way to help Dr. Paul get elected and do something useful with your time. The ones that like myself that are Bible believing Christians can use this for a good. The reason I wrote it is to show a big chunk of people that would vote for Paul except for this one issue what the Bible which they claim to believe says about it. If you don't believe it then that is up to you, you aren't helping anything by fussing. You want to be an atheist be one, you want to fuss about it go to another thread.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

As a fellow believer in Jesus

I await your response. (I used the KJV in mine, OK? :)

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I don't understand your

question.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

OK . It was really more of a 'read my prior post, then respond,'

But I shall not be so obtuse the next time.:)(The longest one, My .02, 0r What the Penny's Worth)

Q: In light of Romans 11 directives,(see the prior post) to 1) not boast against the natural branches, 2) Remember the natural advantages the Israelite person has, and 3) Remember why you are in the tree (Romans 11:20-24) and 4) Remember it is through your mercy they will obtain mercy, What shall we then do?

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Share the

Gospel.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

Amen!

As we remember., the kindness of God is what lead us to repent, and what will cause them to as well.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Atheists have been warning religious people of manipulation

And that is what the "Christians must support Israel" is all about...the prophecy of Israel.

Without this Biblical stuff, would the West have even bothered capturing that land in the middle east? It was the only land the West have actually seized in a very long time. There are darn good reasons why we don't seize land anymore.

Is anyone else reminded of how the Planet of the Apes was ruled by guys who were in charge of both science and religion?

[ironically, Dr. Zauis was debatebly right]

BTW: I'd have to say that not only do the elites control us with science and religion, but also with the economy. If we all suddenly became supporters of the war, I bet the economy would suddenly improve.

Read the Bible!

And you'll discover religion is stupid.

This is the 21st century.

There is NO proof of God. Everything science reveals affirms that this world was not created by a deity for our use. Stop living in the 13th century and wake up to reality!

Try some Sam Harris for help-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

You're flat out wrong.

I'm not going to argue here other than to say that I am a Christian scientist, and I can tell you that we have NOT ruled out God!

It's ironic and hypocritical...

A it's ironic how much athiests care about religion when they claim to not care about religion.

It's hypocrtical for libertarian athiests especially when they claim to not care about what others do with their lives.

Just goes to show, if Man ever really disavowed "Divine Providence" and went with what the above joker said, how the world would look after sociopathic athiests took over the reins of government.

We saw it in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, as well as Cambodia and communist China.

They all believed in "natural rights" and once God was abolished there was nothing to stop them!

+1

...

God doesn't exist ?

Poof it just happened. or
Poof God spoke the WORD. It is more than you and I can comprehend without help. HELP from the beginning.

This whole World is conrolled by the spoken word. You can just look at MSM. So what would make it difficult to understand that a (Perfect Being) could just speak and things could happen? He is called the Ancient of Days.

And this is why

we sit around talking of Israel when we should be preaching the gospel.

I believe you mean when we should

be united in ensuring that Israel is destroyed.