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My thoughts on the Occupy Together movement

I just read a little bit about the Occupy Together movement and it seems to be what I thought it was. Tax the rich, give to the poor (a very left idea that makes no sense). There is no such thing as a tax on the rich. Any tax increase to business is simply passed on to the consumer. So when government raises taxes on corporations they simply raise prices, kill job growth, move overseas, and reduce sales. Everyone ends up in a worse position than they started.

The lefts ideas always seem to be knee jerk in my opinion. It seems easy enough to say lets take from this group who has and give to the have nots. That seems good on the surface but it's not a sustainable solution. It's not sustainable because when you change the rules individuals adapt and make changes too. So that seeming well of money that lay in the hands of so few can be confiscated once but the problem of poor and rich will not go away. And if the confiscation continued, jobs, production, manufacturing etc. would be driven out of the parts of the world where the taxation and regulations are the strictest to more favorable areas. It's really a sure fire way to bring down the entire economy. Perhaps that is the point. I can't get on board with that.

Capitalism isn't the problem in my opinion. It is the monetary system of fiat money. It's interest rate manipulation by the fed and currency devaluation by a small group of bankers that control the entire countries medium of exchange.

The more useful and beneficial method of change is through currency reform. A free market money that benefits the people would be one that they choose. Any effort to correct matters by force of law is exactly that. Force.

When you use government to get your way what you are really doing is giving up rights. If I said that I wanted to have alcohol made illegal in hopes that it's abuse would become less frequent. Many would rally behind that because they agree with me. We'd petition the government to make a law and if passed we'd all celebrate. What really happened. We just confirmed the status of government as ruler over us.

What if down the road another group says we don't want anyone to be able to drive a car. Well I believe I have a right to drive but if I agree that government should be used to enforce the majorities moral beliefs on everyone else then I'd be a hypocrite to not oblige them to take away my freedom to drive.

Limited government is the answer and to achieve that each individual has to take more responsibility for himself and not reach to our rulers to force others to comply with his morality. The idea that might makes right is not correct. Our founders railed against Democracy as the preferred method of governance. That is why we have a Republic. In a true democracy the few are always ruled by the majority. This leads to all kinds of nastiness.



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Ultimately, society is a collective reflection of individuals

Whether you live in a communist, capitalist, democratic, republic, fascist, socialist, anarchist, or any combination of those, in the end, the kind of society you experience is a reflection of the individual wills/actions/standards set by each person.

Trying to classify societies by these simplistic terms only undermines the complexity of human civilization and causes people to debate over the semantics.

What we have in society is what we deserve, because it's what we've allowed to arise. The quality of the people determines the quality of their government.

Instead of referring to political systems of governmetn, the REAL debate when it comes to the structure of society should be a philosophical one. For me, it is each individual's responsibility to demand their own standards of living, their own levels of self-respect. It is no one else's responsibility.

Take the Red Pill at www.redpillphilosophy.com New Videos, Articles, and More!

you sound like Rush Limbaugh.

I suppose if we elect a Republican then everything is going to be all right the sun will shine and the clouds will part.All we need to do is continue crony capitalism.

Kids are tired of the same old rhetoric. They're tired of losing their jobs that are being outsourced to child labor in China. And then having the products shipped right back to American markets.

They're tired of one segment of society receiving welfare in the form of Social Security while another part of gets nothing.

We've been told that if we give the rich tax breaks then that this will create jobs for everyone else. This is a big load of crap as we know the rich are only hid their money in overseas accounts .

They're tired of their votes being hacked by Diebold machines.

They're tired of the minimum wages being so low that they cant even of afford to pay rent.

These kids are not going to wait around to wait and see that the next Republican elected is not going to solve their problems. They're going out to change their world now and not waiting around for some old fogey to tell him to shut up and sit down.

The fact is that crony capitalism no longer works except for the very few elite and we could create millions of jobs at least with high-speed rail, fixing our roads and bridges and putting a huge tariff tax on everything that is imported this country.

These kids are leading the way to a new r3volution .So why should we put them down for that isn't that what we wanted a revolution?

I'm not a republican

Thanks for your thoughts. It's my opinion they are trying to put out a fire but they are pointing their hoses in the wrong direction.

Occupy Wall Street

Was engineered as a means to deflect the attention away from a phony "progressive" administration and it's empty promises to the left and unions, towards the rich and republicans. Obama is in hot water with the unions, he hasn't delivered the goods, and with all the anti-union legislation at the state levels as of late, they are actually in worse shape at this time.

So they are pissed, and now they can take their anger to the street and scream and shout at the rich while having their kumbaya moment with each other, instead of directing it to the holy father of progressive nonsense.

Remember, Obama is in campaign mode, he desperately needs to galvanize his base. When this Occupy thing finally heats up and blows somehow they will all put in their support for him, just watch.

It's all in the plan.

=======
RON PAUL 2012

austrian economists need to educate OWS

Anybody who understands austrian economics should really go down to wall street and talk to those college kids because they definitely don't learn austrian economics in college.

Those kids represent the frustration of a generation that is going to inherit the mess that the government and banks have put our country in. They are pissed off, they know who they are mad at, and they sort of know why, but I bet most don't have a real clue how it happened.

Imagine if Dr. Paul went down to Wall Street, spoke to that crowd and told them how he see's things, gave a talk on economics and liberty, quoted Rothbard and Hayek and Jefferson. It would be a pretty revolutionary event. It might even put Ron in the headlines. Media would spin it a million ways to crazy, but it would only help his campaign.

It seems like #OccupyWallStreet is trying to grow into a movement, small chapters are popping up in cities across the country, and I'de bet that plans are already in play by far left democrat supporters to co-opt the group, just as the Tea Party was by far right republicans.

If I still lived in New York, I would definitely go down and check out the protest, walk around and talk to people, give my understanding of the problems in our system, explain keynesian vs austrian economics, how inflation is a tax, and of course to tell them that Ron Paul has been talking about this for 30 years. It wouldn't hurt to hand out copies of Rothbard and others, too.

People in New York, god damn, please do this. It would not only be a cool thing to do, it could possibly make some small difference in history.

I think you're right.

And I think Obama's men coordinated with the Socialist movement in Spain for them to come over here and get it started. There is a group of Spaniards that flew in right before it started, and were at the protest when it started, working on linking up the live feed. I know a name and face of one of these Socialists, but probably not proper to give it out on here.

The global revolution website is in Spain, which has links to occupy wall street chats. http://www.globalrevolution.es/ And the live feed for Occupy Wall Street is called globalrevolution. Coincidence? I think not.

You've been ZAMPED!!!!!!!

The campaign is at a crossroads,

Should the Paul campaign avoid these protests so as to not offend mainstream Republican old folk who will never support Ron Paul anyway?

OR

Should the Paul campaign seek to manufacture new Republicans out of independents and blue democrats by giving support to the protests?

The first choice is a dead loser. The second a faint hope.

Of course, I think Ron Paul's best chance is with a third party coalition with Nader and the progressives.

BTW, has the campaign thought of approaching Ross Perot for an endorsement? Not that it would be forthcoming, but is there that sort of imagination in the campaign?

Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

I posted a vid

These people want more

These people want more government, not less.

Read their proposed list of demands. They want free education, universal healthcare and a free college education.

http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-f...

Ha. This is a comment

Someone pretty much destroyed all their demands one by one in the comments section of this article. This was the first response to that comment...

"You far too orthodox libertarian for this protest and unless you learn to compromise with the left wing social living wage agenda you will never catch speed with this protest movement..."

You've got to be kidding!

"Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr."

"Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand."

"One trillion dollars in infrastructure spending now."

This is more ridiculous than I thought. Thanks for pointing me to this info.

These demands can be reasonably rebutted.

Education IS too expensive because the system takes advantage of the student loan programs. Healthcare IS too expensive because of the medical monopoly.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to advocate Ron Paul solutions to these problems.

Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

I was at Occupy Seattle Today

Most of the signs I saw said more about the seperation of corporations and the state than anything else.
The bailout of the banks was a noticeable sore spot too. And there were signs about bringing our troops home and ending the wars. I looked for common ground and I found it. If we seek for and encourage divisiveness then the bad guys win...

thanks for your thoughts

I've continued to search and read more about this movement. It's odd how many times Ron Paul's name comes up in comments section of related articles. There seems to be a lot of confusion. Some hate him. Some think he is on there side. Some brandish what they believe to be his ideals in ways that I would question. I cannot speak for him obviously but it seems clear enough to me that there are some things he would agree with and some that he would not. The idea of separation of corporate America from Washington is a major concern of mine too. The revolving door of politicians and corporate lobbyists is causing all kinds of conflict of interest. But I believe that the answer is in monetary change not punishing rich folks. Once the stronghold over money is broken competition in the market for commodity money will make it much more difficult for powerful men to manipulate the citizens through money.

The Economic Populist has an article where they define the movements cause as:

"They claim to be the 99% that is sick to death of the unabated greed of the uber-rich, or top 1% wealthy in this country..."

This was my initial assessment as well. I think that is a flawed cause. Given the diversity of the people participating, there are without doubt those that are there but for different reasons. Ending the fed is a big one. This falls in line with our fight. However I think, and I say this lightly, that we may have different reasons for wanting the Fed ended than the Occupiers.

I look forward to more from Dr. Paul on this topic.

Reason article quoting Dr. Paul on this issue.

This is the first comment on the matter I've seen from him. He mainly states that they should be free to protest peacefully. He was worried about police going too far. He says "If they were demonstrating peacefully,and making a point, and arguing our case, and drawing attention to the Fed–I would say, good!"

http://reason.com/blog/2011/10/01/ron-paul-talks-about-the-o...

Exactly!

"If they were demonstrating peacefully,and making a point, and arguing our case, and drawing attention to the Fed–I would say, good!"

Ron Paul is the man! The words IF and I WOULD SAY, GOOD, should be enough to understand the point he made.

OWS is not our fight folks.. this protest was requested by Obama.

www.youtube.com/truefictions

I try to change people every day. Do You?

Debbie's picture

Absolutely! Thank you for the Reason.com link.

Of course if they are drawing attention the Fed it is good! I have seen End the Fed signs there. Ron works with everyone that agrees with us on the major issues!

Debbie

You don't think that the Banksters are responsible for most of

the problems we see now. I would be there with them if I had the means to get to New York.

Jim Rogers

Where Ron complains about inflation

I feel frustrated that he doesn't make the point that inflation makes household savings impossible. Prosperity requires savings.

He needs to take the inflation problem down to the individual, personal level.

Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

Of course the banksters are to blame

How will borrowing more money from them solve that? It's not as it appears. Reflect on the show put on for your consumption.

They can not create freedom

They can not create freedom because they do not (as a whole) understand it.

Education is paramount in our movement because if people do not know what freedom is, how can they ever obtain it?

It's an opportunity

There are tons of people there and sure there are a lot that think they're Robin Hood, but there are also so many who were like us before we found out about Paul (whenever that was). I don't know if I would have an RP sign or anything, but I would definitely try to talk about the causes of Liberty. They're are a lot of people who are willing to listen, just like we were before we hear about Dr. Paul. It's a potentially tremendous opportunity, we have so much in common with them even though we don't have everything in common with every person.

They're Not a 100% Homogenous Group

While the "steal from the rich and give to the poor" attitude is certainly prevalent, not all of them hold that belief. Case in point, this video of a more educated group of protestors: http://youtu.be/0fV0YjQQzYk

Yes

This is one of the most important things we can do. We MUST educate these people because the criminals running the show in this country would love nothing more than to give these folks (and us even though we dont want it) exactly what it is they are protesting for.

BMWJIM's picture

This protest was started by the Left/Right PTB!

This is such a fake protest. The problem is look at the crowds. These are lost sheep and are being manipulated with the Left/Right philosophy. It really is up to us to educate them on how they have been led to this point.

Their protest will change NOTHING. I do have sympathy for them but, they only know what they are told and subject themselves to how they WANT to be led.

Jim

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

So we should be down there

So we should be down there talking to them...

I am with you 100%

I agree with you 100% and would like to add that I would not be surprised if the government is doing its best to encourage the protesters to riot. OWS helps guarantee politicians job security expectations and not long ago, Obama in a speech told his supporters to put on their marching shoes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMAkG2NPdk

This is certainly not our fight.

www.youtube.com/truefictions

I try to change people every day. Do You?

They'll riot in a few days I'd imagine

You'll see a build-up of police and the cops in street clothes with with black masks will kick it off. This thing is potentially very very dangerous to what little freedom remains. I hope it just blows over, but it it too well staged to ignore.

the message has been infiltrated

just like the tea party. I swear there are operatives (inside these protests) who say things that make sense to the uneducated and try to marginalize people who are ACTUALLY thinking for themselves.

Is it really far from logic when you say that increasing taxes on the rich isn't the same as increasing taxes on the poor?
Corporations see this as a business expense and will make cuts to make up for the loss. They don't want to sacrifice the quality of their product so they move to China or just plain cut jobs.

Take Cain's 999 plan for example. As it stands about 40%(from my memory) don't pay income tax because they are considered poor. He wants to make those people in poverty pay 9% income tax and this is suppose to help America!?

PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID AND EASILY DISSUADED FROM TRUTH.

"I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove."

I wouldn't say their stupid

I wouldn't call the protesters stupid. I think that they believe they are acting in the public's best interest. There is a certain noble quality to their actions I suppose. I do believe that, what I perceive to be their agenda, is misdirected and logically flawed. I always allow a fair amount of room in my ego to be proven incorrect in any of my assertions.