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Can We Remove the Income Tax?

Is it possible to remove the income tax, death tax, and cap gains tax by eliminating most if not all of foreign spending? I wondered if we cut all foreign aide and parts of our military budget would we be able to eliminate these taxes?

I thought of this a week ago and thought this is the best way to go because cutting demestic spending would reach to much resistance from the left. Does anyone have the numbers?



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Excelent question Ebb - You hit the nail on the head.

I think we could abolish the federal income tax (repeal the 16th Amendment).

I might support a small federal sales tax (excluding food or medical) to make up the difference.

Along with doing as you suggested (end ALL foreign aid and bring home U.S. troops), we could abolish many of the following:

Federal government programs, agencies, departments, bureaus, commissions, administrations, offices, foundations, councils, services, institutions, boards, centers, divisions, grants, initiatives, registries, affairs, authorities etc…

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Only if the 'tax on work for pay' were eliminated, entirely, and

permanently, with a everlasting ban on the resurrection of such taxes, would I even consider support for a national sales tax. Even then, it should only apply to new items which are non essential. This excludes thrift store purchases, etc. Taxed Enough, Already!

Your second point is well made. If we eliminated non-Constitutional offices and departments, (The TSA, DOE, IRS and DHS immediately come to mind, but I sure could come up with others) it would probably be sufficient to remove the so-called need for an 'income tax'.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

no federal sales tax

That opens the door to a new tax. Over decades they will expand it, so don't open that door.

Agree.

Agree.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Here are census bureau

Here are census bureau spending and revenue breakdowns, in excel or pdf:

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/federal_govt_fin...

Depending on what you call foreign and military, the numbers vary a little. Individual income taxes vary a lot, depending on whether you include payroll taxes or not.

Even if you use the lowest possible number for individual income taxes, and highest possible for foreign spending, you'll still end up having to cut domestic, non defense programs to get rid of the individual income tax. Get rid of the payroll tax and corporate income tax as well, and we're really talking some spending cuts!

In 2008

Paul said that all we had to do to adjust to zero federal income tax is to go back to 2000 government spending. I don't know what it would be now. Still very doable.

No, because our government has already borrowed...

...against future federal income tax revenues that are to be collected in the 2020's. It's like having a credit card run up $15 trillion over its limit, and then asking "Can we get rid of this credit card?"

Income tax is with us forever, or until there is a total collapse.

"I support the Declaration of Independence and I interpret the Constitution."

Or until people realize how

Or until people realize how wonderful sovereign defaults are in almost every conceivable way.

Rather quixotic that news reports "Sovereign Debt."

As if there is such an oxymoronic thing to be paid by a sovereign.

If one is sovereign & prints their own cash, why should there even be a debt. It is but a slight of hand parlor trick.

The US Bureau of Printing & Engraving prints the Fed Reserve Notes & gifts them to the Fed.

I suggest we close the parlor.

End the Fed: Loaning you blind, since 1913.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Can they? Yes. Will they? Not likely.

After all, who votes for themselves a pay cut, other than Ron?

I believe that ending the income tax

is the only moral thing to do. There should certainly be no tax on wages. To have a tax on the sweat of a man's brow is tantamount to slavery. Whatever else the government does... this must stop now.

The problem is the immorality of our government

which is an outgrowth of the immorality of the people. Too many think in terms of 'from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs' which is a socialistic, utopian mindset that cannot work. When a man cannot profit from hard work, and enjoy the fruit of his labor, he ceases to have incentive to excel.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

You are going about it backwards. You don't eliminate spending

to justify repealing a tax.

You justify repealing a tax on its own demerits and answer the whining and bitching about not having enough revenue with calls for spending cuts where such spending is not authorized in the Constitution.

The truth is, without even any efficiency improvements, there is enough revenue to pay for General Government and a robust and strong defense, without anything more than import and export duties.

Everything else is stuff that the Feds have no business doing, and should be left to the States, or things that NO GOVERNMENT should be doing at all.

You cannot solve any problem by assuming the CAUSE of it to remain, and hope to merely alleviate it by treating a single of many symptoms.

Grover Cleveland fought to reduce import/export duties at one point (the nearly sole source of Federal revenue) because he lamented that excess revenue was a danger to the Republic as it would prompt Congress to start taking on responsibility it had no authority for simply to spend the money.

Reduce revenue CAPACITY first, not in mere amount, but morally on what may be properly taxed as a class and category and object of taxation, and thus, you will reduce Congress' ability, propensity, and eventually even their proclivity to spend.

To add to you import and

To add to you import and export duties;I would wish,as Jefferson stated..."I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the Federal Government the power of borrowing. I now deny their power of making paper money, or anything else, a legal tender. I know that to pay all proper expenses within the year, would, in case of war, be hard on us. But not so hard as ten wars instead of one. For wars could be reduced in that proportion...

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he shall hate the one, and love the other, or else he shall lean to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and riches. - Luke 16

Very interesting. And I wholly agree. Thanks JeffD! Do you

have a citation for that so I could look it up? I'm not doubting the statement, I just want to have a citation for it if I need it.

thanks...

The Jeffersonian cyclopedia

The Jeffersonian cyclopedia :
http://books.google.com/books?id=icGh3NxREIIC&dq=jefferson%2...
page 507-508 4786

Although in 1788(4785) he doesn't like the system of borrowing but sees it as a necessary evil.By 1798(4786) he's against it.

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he shall hate the one, and love the other, or else he shall lean to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and riches. - Luke 16

Sweet!

Thanks again.

YEA!

That is the exact approach!

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

in theory...

yes, we could eliminate the income tax by reducing spending.

Of course, in reality....from a political point of view, we may want to start with something a little easier....like eradicating all dandelions.

Lmao

thank you for the chuckle

Love, Liberty, and Truth

of course we can

however, the first thing we would need to do is not any of the things you mentioned. cutting spending on those things will certainly help very much, but it is most critical to abolish the federal reserve because CONgress can never be trusted to keep spending under control as long as they can always get more money from the fed. would you agree??

nr

Search: "Abolish Income Tax." Please offer a bit of research.

Stated many, many times, many, many places. Film, text & 30 comments.

"America without an income tax would be far more prosperous and far more free, but we must be prepared to fight to regain the liberty we have lost incrementally over the past century. I recently introduced “The Liberty Amendment,” legislation which would repeal the 16th Amendment and effectively abolish the income tax. I truly believe that real tax reform, reform that so many frustrated Americans desperately want, requires bold legislation that challenges the Washington mind set. Congress talks about reform, but the current tax debate really involves nothing of substance. Both parties are content to continue tinkering with the edges of the tax code to please various special interests. The Liberty Amendment is an attempt to eliminate the system altogether, forcing Congress to find a simple and fair way to collect limited federal revenues. Most of all, the Liberty Amendment is an initiative aimed at reducing the size and scope of the federal government. ...

Is it impossible to end the income tax? I don’t believe so. In fact, I believe a serious groundswell movement of disaffected taxpayers is growing in this country. Millions of Americans are fed up with the current tax system, and they will bring pressure on Congress. Some sidestep Congress completely, bringing legal challenges questioning the validity of the tax code and the 16th Amendment itself. Ultimately, the Liberty Amendment could serve as a flashpoint for these millions of voices." - Ron Paul, 2008 in addition to many times & places.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Since I think it has been

Since I think it has been stated many times then someone here should know it.

Like the guy who just answered you?

Sam suggested you do research and then provided you a detailed answer.
I'll add another thought that I don't really agree with but I have no power.
The government could be in charge of money and set an inflation rate to pay for government services. No federal taxes would be needed because all the bills would be paid with new money.
Income taxes in a fiat system are just time-in-service and go toward NOTHING but interest on debt--i.e. Your income tax money enriches exceptionally rich people.

No numbers.

That's his plan as far as I understand it. Cut the war budget by bringing the troops home (economic boost), use the to secure the borders (national safety boost) and then work on bloated government bureaucracies (this will be easier once the economy is boosted and he has support from the people), then lower taxes.

My understanding anyway.

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Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Why focus on the military

Why focus on the military alone? I think that is an impossible obsticale to overcome. I bet a great deal of spending overseas is foreign aide for other countries. I was wondering what the numbers are on that. It may be easier to make an argument of cutting the military less and getting rid of all foreign aide.

I wasn't suggesting that be our only direction.

That's the easiest for him to do. He would have large support from the American people and he WOULD be the Commander in Chief.

So, not getting the impossible thing.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

When you tell the people that

When you tell the people that you are going to drastically cut back on the military they instantly think that the country will be defenseless. You can debate how true that is or not but that is how a lot of people are going to perceive it. It is going to be enough people to stop it dead. My idea was to not cut the military as much and cut foreign aid which has got to cost quite a lot of money. I'm guessing it is comparable to the military budget itself. Why not include that in any necessary budget cuts in order to eliminate the income, cap gains, and death taxes.

I don't know how you feel about it but I really don't care as much about the overseas military as much as I do about eliminating those particular taxes.

:)

'I don't know how you feel about it but I really don't care as much about the overseas military as much as I do about eliminating those particular taxes.'

Sorry but I don't trust people that I don't know telling me that they think I should worry about the mole hill instead of the mountain.

He's going after all of it. He's said so.

The first thing I think is someone is trying to manipulate me.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.