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Food becomes scarce...

ryno.t1985, food becomes scarce during economic and social upheaval, when governments go to war, and when they take control of the food supply. Talk to anyone over age 80 who remembers ration coupons as part of city living in World War II. Each family was limited in what it could buy.

Talk to any of the young men who stock the shelves in my neighborhood grocery store who were among the Lost Boys of Sudan. They faced starvation during their nation's civil war.

Talk to anyone who lived in urban areas in Russia under the old Soviet system. Prices were low, but shelves were empty.

During the depression in our nation, the price of food commodities like milk and wheat were so low it was not worth the cost to those who produced it to sell it and ship it from rural to urban areas. Food items rotted in barns because there was no profit to be made in selling it. There was plenty of food in rural areas. Rural residents had no money, but they had livestock and gardens. People in cites went hungry. Food was scarce in the cities.

It is true Mother Nature produces a never ending supply of seeds, and animals always reproduce - over time. On a seasonal basis Mother Nature is not consistent. There are droughts and crop failures. There is livestock disease and overgrazing.

Also, seeds and animals are not food. Labor is required to convert seeds and animals into food for human consumption, and to transport it from where it is produced to where it is consumed. The typical American food product travels 1500 miles on its journey to your mouth.

In our nation today, 2% of the population produces 100% of the food. This is possible thru our petroleum based food production and distribution system. If oil prices rise the cost to produce and transport food rises. Unless those who consume food are willing and able to pay higher prices, those who produce the food will likely decide to do something else with their time and money. This will result in lower food production.

And to top it all off, in our nation today, current law allows the federal government to confiscate any food you grow in your backyard.

“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.” – Goethe

NO! Silver and Gold don't merely inversely track the dollar

Please don't listen to those who say it's not metals that are going up, but dollars going down. That is only partly true. They are forgetting it's not just inflation that drives price, but supply and demand.

Inflation is only half of the equation. Any Austrian economist here should know that. You needed 400 oz of gold to buy a median family house in 2000, now you only need about 80 oz. Ok guys? Same with stocks, farmland, currencies, etc.

Listen to me now: "profits" of gold and silver are taxed at 28.5%...so if all we were doing was "keeping purchasing power"...we FAILED because we end up only breaking even before Uncle Sam would rape us for nearly 1/3 of what we originally had. Folks here mean well, but you DON'T buy precious metals in this atmosphere simply to retain capital...you're doing it because silver and gold go through periods of OVERvaluation and UNDERvaluation, and right now....they're both well under their true value, relative to the mean. Ok? When we have a gold standard again, silver and gold won't be investments, they'll be money, BUT until we have that....they are investments as well.

And as for me, I'm holding my silver to buy income producing properties and stocks at the time when those assets are undervalued relative to their mean, and silver and gold will have perhaps overshot by that time. It's worth considering. All the best.

The answer to your question is up to you do determine.

Where can you get the best return at the most acceptable risk? I can't tell you that nor can anyone else. If they say they can be careful, they're trying to sell you something.

While there is some industrial demand, silver is largely a hedge against the devaluation of the dollar.

Personally, if my dream comes true and Paul is nominated as the Republican candidate for President and looks like he will win the general I will take a leap of faith and sell any silver I may or may not have.

If sound monetary policy were to suddenly come about, if the market were once again allowed to set interest rates, if regulations began to become less bloated and more relevant, if property rights were once again recognized - the dollar would strengthen and silver would drop.

Why hold silver which will increase at the rate of inflation when your savings account draws more? But for now assets which are otherwise idle and can be spared silver and gold are buy on weakness and hold - but don't expect to get rich they're just sort of an insurance against inflation which have been historically fairly liquid.

My goal is to buy out right X

My goal is to buy out right X amount of land with my silver, it's not so much how much silver will be worth but how much purchasing power an ounce of silver will have. I believe we will see the day when you can buy a medium sized family house for a couple of hundred oz of silver. Those who have the physical will be rewarded with the ability to survive the days ahead.

Js

It's not that

2 ounces of silver is going to suddenly make you rich- silver isn't going "up"- it's that fake paper money is going DOWN.

Look at how much silver it took to buy something of REAL value 100 years ago- how much for a loaf of bread? How much for an acre of land? Reasonably stable values. That (IMHO) is the value of precious metals. They're a STORAGE DEVICE for wealth- they're NOT a get rich quick scheme. If silver goes to "$50,000 an ounce" it just means that Federal Reserve Notes have arrived at their true value- which is zero.

Stay focused. You're buying

Stay focused. You're buying silver and/or gold as a store of value, not as an investment. Metals do not produce anything. They are just scarce materials that hold value against currencies. So you must watch for what is to come. We have, and will continue to have inflation. It will get worse. A collapse of the dollar is possible. Will we reset the dollar with a metal backing? Will we move to a new global fiat currency? Will Ron Paul win and usher in competing currencies, whereby silver is used in daily trade? We don't know yet. What we do know is that metals cannot be devalued through printing. The major risk in owning the metals right now is a return to sanity, massive spending cuts in government and dramatically higher interest rates set by the fed. I personally don't think that will happen, but you be the judge. I do know that the Daily Paul metals thread has links to some of the best information out there. Check it out. A wealth of knowledge.

How will food become scarce?

How will food become scarce? There will always be food. Mother Nature always produces a never ending supply of seeds. Animals always reproduce. Don't understand what you are talking about.

Uh. I think you responded to

Uh. I think you responded to the wrong comment. I didn't say anything about food. We were talking about metals.

A couple of misconceptions perhaps

1. Commodities never reach "maximum price". When food is extremely scarce it's worth more than gold.

2. Liquidating any asset simply means you exchange it for another.

3. Given the facts that real estate still has another 20-30% to drop before it reaches parity with incomes COMBINED with the fact that most of us don't "own" any land but merely license it from a government that can take it away at any time severely increases it's risk.

4. If you have in fact been buying for years you can realize a substantial profit now by selling so your doubts are a bit hard to understand.

5. I read you asking about land. If it's not productive land that's not much of an investment at all. Try land that you can log, mine, plant or lease. Otherwise you have a dormant investment.

6. Lots of us are mining gold in AZ. Just be really careful about where you do it. On private land without permission you can get yourself shot in AZ. On state/federal land you need permitting at least and probably a claim. Or you want to be really sneaky about it and DON'T TELL ANYONE. Miners never talk about certain things. It's wisest to tell nobody if you are mining, where you are mining and how much you are taking. That gets people killed too. It's hard work too but maybe not much harder than you are working now.

Best of luck with your decision. Business is always a risk.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Buy gold in small quantities.

... then hide it in a safe place and don't tell anyone.

Then use it to swap for food when the sh*t hits the fan.

More importantly learn to be happy with not much. Become aware of your desires and realize that desire destroys happiness. When you are happy and content no matter what the circumstances then you are free.

Is Silver really that great of an investment?

I been reading all of you all's comments how important it is to buy silver, but am I really spending my money wisely? My parents are thinking that I am foolish for buying it because they said people lost money investing in it back in the 80's. Do they have a point? I am having some doubts because of this, and I am hearing different opinons from everyone.

If you read my

post below about priority being food/protection, then you can see silver/gold is not the most important thing to have.

So technically, no, you don't need to put your money into precious metals to survive what may happen with the economy.

Now if you're asking whether or not it's a good idea, that's a different story. Most people here, including me, would say yes it's a very good idea from a financial perspective to hold physical gold/silver for the long term.

By "investment"...

I am assuming by "investment" you mean "killer get-rich 1990's style profits". If that is your goal then you will probably be disappointed and that is NOT the reason most successful investors and people managing their wealth buy metals. Unless of course they are "day trader" types who try to skim profits off of quick buy/sells.

The dominant reasons most successful investors buy metals are:

1) To preserve wealth during downturns. Fiat currencies can collapse and completely evaporate. Gold/silver will always be worth something. After a currency collapse metals can be exchanged for the new currency often at very handsome multiples of prior currency value since currency revaluation almost always involves backing the new currency in gold/silver.

Countries all around the world are scooping up as much gold and silver as they can because they know the current system is on its last leg. The countries of the world did not start to recover from the Great Depression until currency was revalued/recreated with metals backing. Roosevelt confiscated gold and silver and made it illegal for US "subjects" to possess any significant amounts for this very reason (yes, his declaration to confiscate called us "subjects" :p ).

2) For barter in the midst or tail end of a currency collapse.

You CAN make off like gangbusters on metals investments but you have to have good timing and nothing is guaranteed and is very risky.

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

There was a silver bubble in the 1980s.

There was a silver bubble in the 1980s. Some bought high and sold low.

Loot at this chart. http://www.sharelynx.com/chartsfixed/600yearsilver.gif

A 600 year history of silver prices in constant 1998 Dollars ($FRN-1998).

You will see a spike for 1980. Some people bought at prices that were not historically justified. If someone had bought a year earlier and sold at the peak they would have made $50/ozAG. A Day Traders dream.

But many metals investor around DP are interested in a store of wealth. Check out http://wealthcycles.com/visual-economy for an introduction.

Free includes debt-free!

That visual economy link is

That visual economy link is awesome

What are values, what is profitable?

I enjoyed Mike Maloney's videos over at wealthcycles.com

The short story is to

The trick is discovering which is which. Knowing historical prices is easy. Knowing the current conditions is problematic. Investments a risky bet. Buy low and Sell high. Ideally one sells over-valued assets to buy undervalued assets.

GOLD:Dollar ratio was set by law until 1971
http://www.sharelynx.com/chartstemp/AUPPBasket.php

DOW:GOLD Ratio
http://home.earthlink.net/~intelligentbear/com-dow-au.htm

600 years Gold price ($1999 FRN)
http://www.sharelynx.com/chartsfixed/600yeargoldprice.gif

600 years Silver prices (with GOLD:SILVER ratio) ($1998 FRN)
http://www.sharelynx.com/chartsfixed/600yearsilver.gif

40 Year Gold Ratios: Oil, Silver Aluminum and Copper...
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/ronald-griess/rat...

US Home price average in Gold OZoz
http://www.sharelynx.com/gw/goldwatcher39.php

Free includes debt-free!

Once silver reaches its maximum

hold on to it, because it'll probably break through that max and make a new one. But, in 5, 10, 20 or 30 years from now (depending on conditions), I'd say buy anything that is a solid investment and gold has raised in comparison to considerably. Land might be a good choice.

Join the social network that pays you https://www.tsu.co/tylercox

does it depend what kind of

does it depend what kind of land or just any land? I would think some are more valued than others, right?

land

don't know much but enough to think you're right.

I'd say some land more valuable to some people than to others... mountain, beach two off top of my head...

but for me it'd be land with a water Source. Closer to the Source of the water the better.

then not just surface land, but what's underneath

then Soil for growing

but some might want a better defensive position or something, so depends on the person and what they want.

my uneducated opinion

buy property

buy property and capital

Certain kinds of property or

Certain kinds of property or any property in general?

Another question I was going

Another question I was going to ask. Does anyone here pan for gold, instead of buying it? In the next few weeks I was planning to fly out to AZ with my parents to visit their friends from work, and the man who is retired does it as a hobby. I thought panning it and getting it for free would be a better option.

Good question

Getting gold directly is indeed a great option.

Since I'm in California I did look into it. If you do it as a hobby it comes down mostly to luck. Of course it comes down to luck anyway, but if all you've got is a pan and some spare time you really have to get lucky.

With higher gold prices there are some that do it full time. At the very least they invest in a bit more equipment, like a sluice box at the minimum, because it does the work for you so you can process more material. One full time guy in California made 10K in one day this way.

You also have to know what locations to look for gold at, and how to improve your chances of finding it when you arrive. Searching the Internet can provide help.

Great link on Arizona:

http://www.mdpub.com/prospecting/index.html

It's not easy work either.

yeah this is southeast of

yeah this is southeast of Tucson, I hear he does ok there.

yeah this is southeast of

yeah this is southeast of Tucson, I hear he does ok there.

yeah this is southeast of

yeah this is southeast of Tucson, I hear he does ok there.

yeah this is southeast of

yeah this is southeast of Tucson, I hear he does ok there.

yeah this is southeast of

yeah this is southeast of Tucson, I hear he does ok there.

Ideas for cash(more silver) flow

As a silver owner myself, this is a good question, and one that it behooves us to answer now rather than later.

Personally, I try to remember one thing: silver is not only an investment to us, it is a currency. It is money. This currency's purchasing power will go ballistic against other currencies and asset classes.

So, in the future, we're going to spend silver and gold as money. What makes sense to me then, considering these realities, is that I want to invest my silver into assets that will give me cash flow for the rest of my life. And by cash flow I mean "MORE SILVER".

I think by the time silver and gold reach their plateau, the most undervalued assets will be income producing real estate(rental properties, hotels etc), dividend paying stocks, etc.

Doug Casey says you'll probably be able to acquire blue chip stocks with dividends of between 8 and 12% at that point. Not a bad lifelong cash flow to have, right? But if gold and silver are still taxed at that point, that would require a taxable event.

There's another strategy that a guy named Chris Duane mentioned at dont-tread-on.me wrote about. He mentions the possibility of being able to snap up ridiculously cheap hotels when things are at their worst. He mentions the story of Mr. Hilton, of Hilton fame, who got his start during the depression. He kept his head, even after a bankruptcy, and bought up a hotel that was so cheap...it sold for 1 times earnings! This means, that it produced so much income relative to its price, that it paid for itself in ONE YEAR! So, he suggests leveraging your silver, by pledging it for collateral for a bank loan against a hotel property like that, and after a year, you'll have paid back the loan AND still have your silver...all without triggering a taxable event.

Bottom line is, these are just a few ideas. God willing, once this thing is played out, holders of silver will find the world is their oyster, know what you want out of life, and what you to use your silver for when the time comes. Hope that helps. Good luck!

If anyone knows when silver reaches its maximum price...

...I would pay good money to know it.

Exactly how will you know what that maximum price is?

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul