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Keep talking about Ron Paul running as a third party candidate!

I think the premise of the post "Stop talking about Ron Paul running as a third party candidate!" ( http://www.dailypaul.com/185079/stop-talking-about-ron-paul-... ) misses a few important points.

Ron Paul would have said NO hands down to the idea of a third party run if that were the message he wanted to send. So why didn't he? I think he didn't shut down a possible third party run for good reason and we should open our eyes to it.

Ron Paul as "spoiler" is a threat to the Republican party in more ways than one. If Ron Paul ran as Independent one thing is sure (at least I think so) and that is that the Republicans would not defeat Obama. Some may say Ron Paul as spoiler will be used against Ron Paul.. but really will it be? How can it be? Will anyone who was going to vote for Ron Paul say they won't now because he might run as third party? I think the idea that Ron Paul will take all his votes away from the Republicans will force them to think long and hard about how they handle Ron Paul.

I think the key here is that Ron wields an extraordinary amount of power to determine the results of the election and the real message is.. don't dismiss Ron Paul because if you do you will lose. Another way to say it is... if you want another four years of Obama keep your head up your ass. That should strike fear in the hearts of Republicans and we all know they respond to fear.

I know this is all a little harsh but I think there is a very real veiled threat here and that Ron Paul is putting it out there on purpose. He has been doing this (politics) for thirty years and the fact that he did not shut down the idea of third party run was no mistake.

Personally I think we should talk about him potentially running as a third party candidate MORE not less. We should make Republicans realize they can't win without us. We should be forcing them to ask the question... "Do you want Obama for four more years or Ron Paul the Republican?" In the end that could change more minds than any of our more rational/intellectual arguments for his candidacy.

Now don't put me down as saying he should drop out of what he is doing now. No, he is running as a Republican and right now Republicans have the opportunity to have him work for them. They have the opportunity to have all of his votes on their side and to defeat Obama in 2012 - if they put him on the ballot. But to say it's not a good argument to admit that we have the power to shape this election? That would be foolish and blind of us in my opinion. We need to play every card in our hand and if that means we need to throw a few elbows out on the playing field then so be it.




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Look, The fact is, Ron

Look, The fact is, Ron wouldn't be able to run as a 3rd party because, "as he has said" it would require at least another 15 million in donations right out the gate...! We have a hard time coughing up a million or 2, so how do you think we would be able to come up with 15 million...!? At some point reality has to set in guys... Focus on the task at hand...!

I'm not taking sides here,

I'm not taking sides here, I'm just stating the facts...

Independent run forces choice: Disaster or hope; no middle road.

Ron can't and shouldn't acknowledge any likelihood of an independent run, for that makes his run for the nomination look weak and not serious.

But his supporters can talk up the guaranteed effect of an independent Paul run: One possible political outcome is eliminated outright, and that is the NeoCon one.

Right now Republican voters can support Obama, the NeoCon du jour, or Ron. Outcomes are careening toward disaster, running toward disaster, or reversing direction away from disaster.

If Ron loses the nomination and runs independent, there will be a forced choice. He'll ruin the chances for the GOP nominee, leaving only Obama and himself (and a few 3rd party candidates). Hence voters will have the choice of certain disaster or hope. Like it or not, any Republicans who seriously don't want an Obama disaster will have to vote for Ron in order to avoid it.

To sweeten the pot, other parties like Libertarians and Constitution Party folks could pass resolutions in convention saying that either way, Ron getting nominated or running independently, they will have their nominee drop out and endorse Ron. They might seriously consider that, given their support for the best outcome.

The best strategy for Republican voters now, then, is to get Ron the nomination and the (allegedly) full support of the party. That gives them the clear choice we want without causing a serious rift.

What a great way to use the

What a great way to use the independent run threat!

The coming perfect storm

In this next election we are entering uncharted territory. This may be the most important election of this century. With the unease of the electorate, the tea party, OWS, wars, a housing bubble and a dollar crises things are volatile. The midterm elections were huge for the Republicans, not because people voted for the Republicans it was a vote against the party in power. The same thing with Obamas election, it was a vote against the direction the country was headed. Problem is there was no change, Obama continued the same policies of the Bush administration. Point is, people are pissed, they are voting against the establishment both conservatives and progressives. What if they had an option?

If Ron Paul is on a third party ticket with the right VP candidate it is very possible that he could win, maybe even with a landslide. It came close with Ross Perot but he clearly screwed up with his selection of Stockdale as a running mate. We maybe be coming into a perfect storm, you can only sheer the sheeple so many times until you get blowback.

You make a good argument

You make a good argument methusapaul. I suppose Ron Paul is an idiot for not pledging NOT TO RUN third party?

Start Talking about a 3rd Party Campaign for Mitt Romney!

Ron Paul will be the Republican candidate if you put your shoulder to the wheel, hit the streets, go to your GOP meetings, and spend time off the internet talking to people live.

There's a 0.1% chance that Mitt Romney will run 3rd party!

That's 1000 times GREATER chance than Ron running 3rd party which is 0.0001%.

http://www.dailypaul.com/185480/start-talking-about-a-3rd-pa...

Let's suppose Ron said "If I

Let's suppose Ron said "If I don't win the GOP nomination, you're damn right I'm going to go 3rd party". Do you honestly think the Republicans will say "Hey Mitt & Herman, you won't win against Obama if Ron goes 3rd party. You might as well drop out or adopt Paul's issues in hopes of appeasing him"? NO. Paul will be immediately marginalized as a spoiler. All these idiots out there who think "Anyone else but Obama" will suddenly be super pissed at Ron for handing Obama another election. He will be savagely attacked every day should he make the threat of going 3rd party and there will be very little chance of endearing himself to GOP voters in order to get the GOP nomination.

Even if Ron secretly did want to go 3rd party (and I don't think he does), I'm 100% sure he would never reveal this.

Let's drop this 3rd party stuff. At least until the January primaries are over - Ron has already said those will "make or break" the campaign.

If he doesn't do will in January, my personal preference would be for him to challenge the front runner in every primary until May (when the Libertarian Party decides on its nominee) and then join the Libertarian race, but I really don't want to hear anything about 3rd party bids until February at the absolute earliest.

Stop this garbage!


What part of Ron Paul already ran as a third party candidate in 1988 do you not understand?

Did he even get into the debates? No
Did anyone even follow his campaign? No
Did anything productive come from this? No

In this Country, we have no third parties. They are banned from the debates by design. They get zero TV coverage by design. They are non-participants.

Brilliant - thank you!

Trevor is exactly right. The Republicans can't win without us and they think if they ignore Ron Paul like they did in 2008, we will shrug our shoulders and vote for the GOP nominee.

But we aren't voting for Ron Paul because he's a Republican and they haven't gotten that distinction yet. We're voting for Ron Paul because of who he is and what he says.

My fear is that the GOP would rather Obama win than Paul because they are all so heavily in the pocket of the MIC, Big Pharma and the banksters.

Oh, won't I love voting for Ron Paul on election day 2012, I don't care the color of the lever!!!

emalvini's picture

All This Useless Energy Should Be Refocused On Winning Votes

for Ron Paul for the GOP primary nomination..Any talk of a 3rd party run in really premature folks.

Lets start recruiting votes for Ron Paul, ok?

Talk of 3rd party is taken as a signal that we can't win the GOP nomination..Think about that.

Many are missing the point of the post

which was not whether or not Dr. Paul could win as a third party candidate, but whether or not it would help us now to keep the issue alive. It seems alive and well if this thread is any indicator, and I agree with the author that it is a good thing. I for one am appreciative of anything that forces his name into the conversation.

There is nothing negative about admitting the power to challenge for the presidency via third party. It will help us. It reveals strength. What other candidate could say this? Cain? No way. His appeal is that he could beat Obama (only) with the support of the GOP. Without that, Cain is relegated to conversations about being someone's running mate. No one else could even talk about doing this. This is good for Ron Paul and for us. It will force them at least to give him some coverage.

John F

This is good for Ron Paul and

This is good for Ron Paul and for us. It will force them at least to give him some coverage.

Yeah, it's good for you... if you're one of those reptillian Illuminati offworlder plants that the tin foil hatters around here talk so much about.

5 Reasons Ron will not run third party:

1. He didn't last time, even though he left the door open then too. To everyone who takes Paul at his word all the time, that's nice and all, but if you haven't noticed, he is just as much a politician as any of them and knows when to be non-committal.

2. He has already tried running third party, back when media was much more favorable to a third party campaign . I don't know if you noticed, but Paul is no Anderson or Perot. He would probably get more than the measly 2% Nader did in a general election, but that would still mean 0 electoral votes. Money bombs are one thing, but he doesn't have a billion dollars. He doesn't yet have solid 15% support, meaning he couldn't get in the debates. And fighting sore loser laws would eat up those precious resources he DOES have.

Even if the country would like to see a third party candidate, what difference does this make? Such polls have shown a generic third party candidate to come in 2nd place on a general election ballot for the last 8 years or so. And no candidates have surfaced to take advantage of these polls.

3. A third party run undermines all the work Paul has done to reform the GOP the last 40+ years. He quit the party once when he didn't have nearly as much vested in it. Republican Liberty Caucus, Campaign for Liberty... Liberty PAC... wow, I just realized how redundant all those sounded... geez. But the point stands. It goes completely against everything Paul has talked about (in retaking the GOP).

4. A third party run will totally fucking destroy any viability his son might have in 2016 or 2020. Or for that matter, any other libertarian republican candidate that emerges. And for all you people thinking that Republicans would just forget about RP spoiling the election and giving us 4 more years of Obama, because you think "4 years is an eternity in electoral politics...", think again.

To this day, Perot is still blamed for spoiling the Republican ticket, and he did exceptionally well for a third party candidate. Nader only got 2% of the vote and he's still blamed for giving us Bush. Some people even blame him for handing Bush the election in 2004 as well, even when he did considerably worse. Hell, going as far back to 1912, when Roosevelt finished better than Taft, he was still considered to have compromised the Republican Ticket and pave the way for Wilson and that loathsome age of "progressivism" that still plagues us to this day.

5. Most importantly, a third party run... even merely contemplating it as people are doing here, does the most damage of all. If a third party run would damage all he has worked for in the long term, then just wait until you see what the mere speculation will do to him in the short term -- IE a few months from now. If people think that Paul will bow out after January, then that makes the base more complacent. And if it's anything the establishment would love to do, it would be to make us more complacent.

So all of you who think you're being so smart by thinking on a two-track mind? Wrong again. Such a conflicting message is simply not sustainable. What's our new message for devoted Paul supporters going to be? "Support him in the GOP elections come January, but if you fall after the January primaries, ramp up for a third party bid?" Do you have any idea how confusing that's going to be? Those are the mixed signals you are sending, intentionally or not. And this hurts Paul now.

Not to mention the fact that while it may help him in some ways with Dem and Indie supporters for the general, we already have people NOW who are crossing over to vote for him. And it is THIS group of people we are counting on most to show up to support him, since we know the establishment neocons won't go for him at all. With all the work his supporters have put into GOP, and initiatives like Blue Republicans, RP Delegates, etc. etc... you would have us just piss that away?

Oh right, sorry... now I'm just "distorting" what you said.

No. Facts are facts. Whether or not you resent the state of our electoral system or not, there will be other opportunities to change it. If you want to seek them out, do it on your own time and under your own name. Do not use Paul or float HIS instead, because he has already found his opportunity. And he has a damn good chance of fulfilling it. Don't mess it up.

Never forget:

To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.


- Barry Goldwater

Foolishness and idiocy attracts just as much attention!

"...It seems alive and well if this thread is any indicator...".

One could create a fantastic and exploding thread any day.. just blast Paul out of the water and support Cain! Distract the grassroots and the thread grows!

Neither is a sign of wisdom!

Remember, the GOP hierarchy, along with the DNC, is banking on anyone, as you have seen, including an 'Obama' win, if it means they can defeat Dr. Paul... that is how much they fear HIM!!

They have no fear of an un-Paul winning! Whether it is Obama or anyone of a dozen other 'un-Paul's', is irrelevant!

Once the grassroots comprehends this fact, they will realize the danger and foolishness of wasting time on even thinking about being '3rd-123rd, party!

The point, my friend

was only that this would get Ron's name mentioned more by the MSM, and it's working. The fallacy you make is by suggesting that this maneuver is no better than something sensationalistic or outright "idiotic," but it is. In saying, "I have no intentions of running third party," is Ron Paul being a foolish idiot? Are you prepared to say that? Because that is the logical conclusion of all this. After all, he is the one that left the door ajar. I am only agreeing with his strategy and I think he knows a bit more about the politics of running for office than we do.

Again, you suggest that it is not "wisdom" speaking as he spoke in the interview. Well, okay...maybe you should run the campaign. I'm siding with the campaign. Ron Paul knew what was going to happen by allowing this. Don't you think he's thought about all of this?? Ron Paul has NO INTENTION of running as anything but a Republican. Relax. It is just not possible. He is going to win the GOP nomination and he knows how best to go about doing it.

John F

You do make the point about MSM being 'distracted'... good!

Couple more comments earlier, you might want to read.... you may have misunderstood my post... C'est la vie...:

www.dailypaul.com/185153/keep-talking-about-ron-paul-running...

http://www.dailypaul.com/185153/keep-talking-about-ron-paul-...

In Liberty my friend... JS

Hmm...

Thinking about 3rd party = I don't think I can win the republican nomination

Not thinking about 3rd party = I think I can win the republican nomination.

That's how I see it.

Ron Paul or Barack Obama will be the next POTUS...

...because 90% of RP supporters will write his name in if necessary, next November.

That is probably the way it's going to work out. The question is, do we make that known now, or will it be perceived as an attempt to "blackmail" the GOP, and actually lose some swing voters in the primaries?

Reformed neocon

In the mean time, can we support him a 110% during his

Republican candidacy? Is that too hard to ask?

I agree with you 100%

Leave the possibility open and let the media play up those fears to Republicans and then be assertive in the fact that you have no plans to run 3rd party. Here's how I see it. He has quit his Congressman position to put all his efforts into this campaign, and he may be too old to want to run again next round as I'm sure this kind of campaigning is very hard on him, as it would be anyone, let alone someone of his age. So if he loses, and I truly hope he doesn't, what does he have to lose? Nothing as far as a political career goes assuming he doesn't plan on running again. The only reason he'd have to stay out is to keep Obama from winning. But he's not anymore critical of Obama than he is the Republicans, and I'm not just talking about his opponents here. So I'm guessing it really depends on how he feels about who the candidate is. I may be wrong here, but I don't believe he has even committed to supporting whomever the Republican candidate is if its not him.

So if Ron Paul does not win

So if Ron Paul does not win the Republican nomination, what then?

While you are pondering that question

I'll be focused on supporting Ron Paul in his current race for the GOP nomination... a race that is getting really good.

SHUT UP!

About Ron Paul running third party.

He is going after the REPUBLICAN nomination and is not even considering a third party bid!

CONCENTRATE on the Republican nomination ONLY!

Give us clear vision, that we may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything.
~ Peter Marshall, US Senate Chaplain 1947

Ron Paul's two best friends

Ron Paul's two best friends in the media, Lew Rockwell and the Judge, will be commenting on the national third party debate.
Any light bulbs turning on out there?

any light bulbs turn on for you?

The Judge and Lew Rockwell decided to avoid that topic altogether and discuss the drone war instead. Neither made any mention of a third party run.

So, you spend your time on this and loose the nomination?!

What will you do when Paul wins the nomination and then Gingrich, Palin, and yes, Faux news supported Napolitano, jump ship with 4 inch headlines all over the country, bigger than Pearl harbor attack, saying that the GOP fears radicalism has taken over the party, and is running a second GOP candidate in the general election!?

This was done in 1912 to birth the Fed! It will be done again 100 years later in 2012, to preserve the life of the Fed!

It would be the height of naivety to think less of the well established evil and subtlety that animates the war mongers of the CFR! If the grassroots fails to grasp this enemy and battle of such magnitude, then the nomination is lost already! They will stop at nothing and you can rest assured that they have planned their moves well.

It is for the grassroots to plan ahead, as precise as good chess! To that end the best now is to be active towards that very goal the party bosses hope you will neglect... the precise tasks calculated to seize the nomination.

Every effort and every spare moment should be directed to that end. The precincts await our call. It is for us to loose. Jealousy should reign, and not over-confidence, in the matter of preparation!

Gingrich maybe, Palin it

Gingrich maybe, Palin it depends, but Judge Nap?

Is it just me or is it really stupid in here? These kinds of moronic flame-outs are enough to cook a cat on a hot tin foil roof.

Never forget:

To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.


- Barry Goldwater

RP =

RP stands for Ron Paul
RP stands for Republican Party!

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/youownyou (quotes)
Website: http://www.own-yourself.com

That the rank and file GOP

That the rank and file GOP are speaking like Ron Paul means nothing to me. They are stealing Ron's ideas because they have no good ones of their own and they know it. WE ARE BEING USED.They are blowing smoke up our rear ends to gain our confidence and get our votes. The minute any one of them gets into power it will be bye bye to all the nice rhetoric about smaller governments and obeying the Constitution. You want another George Bush, or worse?
Stick with the GOP. I guarantee you will get a nice neocon clone perhaps with slightly different rhetoric but the same agenda.

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