25 votes

What If Iran...

As another "holiday" weekend draws to a close, Americans have again been bombarded with exhortations to thank the U.S. military establishment for their supposed freedom. This theme pervades all aspects of American culture. Uniformed military personnel are granted privileges on airlines, discounts at restaurants, hotels, and other business establishments. This past summer, I attended my daughter's dance recital at the Tampa Performing Arts Center. At the midpoint of the performance, men in uniform were rolled out onto the stage and a long tribute follwed, including patriotic-sounding music and a special dance routine, with a pair of army boots spotlighted at the front of the stage. The militarization of American culture is inescapable. That no one seems to recognize the similarity between this cultural worship of the military and the same by another militarized society of not so long ago is truly horrifying.

It may not be fashionable to say so, but I am sick and tired of being told to thank the military. The idea that thanks is owed grows out of the inability of most Americans to recognize simple cause and effect relationships. As I've said before, Americans seem to be unwilling to ask themselves the most basic questions about precisely how U.S. wars have made them freer. What are the specific results that the U.S. military has either achieved or prevented in the past 70 years that have led to this supposed increase in freedom? How would be less free if the U.S. government did not fight one or more of those wars? While I have dealt with this at length before, let me summarize briefly:

1. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Korea.

2. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Viet Nam.

3. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Grenada (does anyone really take this one seriously?).

4. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Somalia.

5. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Kuwait.

6. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Iraq.

7. U.S. citizens are not freer because the U.S. military invaded Afghanistan.

Now, I know that these statements are at odds with conventional wisdom and will be regarded as unpatriotic by conservatives and even most liberals. However, after completing the required ad hominem attack upon the author, I challenge anyone who disagrees to refute these statements logically, providing a reasonable argument that there is some cause-effect relationship between the cited wars and the relative freedom of U.S. citizens. It will be particularly difficult to make the argument in the case of Viet Nam, where the objective (to prevent North Viet Nam from taking over South Viet Nam) was not achieved. U.S. citizens should have been less free as a result. Were they? How?

Cause and effect. It is the first and most basic natural law of the universe. It is the first concept that human beings must master before they can begin to undertsand the world around them. This understanding is imperative when performing the simplest task, like crossing the street. An inability to understand the cause and effect relationships between drivers and pedestrians can get you killed. The danger is exponentially greater when considering spending hundreds of billions of dollars to send hundreds of thousands of armed men to some far-off land.

The so-called debate on Iran provides yet another example of the inability of most Americans to recognize cause and effect relationships. Assuming that the Iranian government is attempting to build a nuclear weapon, the government-media complex has presented a narrow range of options from which Americans are expected to choose, with all others off the table. They are 1. Bomb or invade Iran now, before they get a nuclear weapon or 2. Impose economic sanctions (i.e., a military blockade/act of war) and bomb or invade them later. All of this is predicated upon the assumption that Iran will immediately use this nuclear weapon the minute they build it. While even the most hawkish conservatives would probably concede that there is not much chance that Iran will develop an inter-continental ballistic missile capable of striking the U.S. anytime soon, they cite the possibility that Iran may use this weapon against Israel.

This is where Americans don't seem to be able to call upon the most basic critical thinking skills. Let's assume that the hawks are correct. Iran develops a nuclear weapon. Let's assume that one sunny morning, they decide to fire it. What would happen next?

Israel has approximately 300 nuclear weapons in its arsenal and the most well-trained and equipped military establishment in the Middle East. Do the math. The idea that Iran would preemptively nuke Israel, resulting in its complete destruction, is preposterous. Yet, most American citizens either refuse or are incapable of engaging in this simple analysis and instead give their tacit or enthusiastic support to whatever destructive foreign policy decisions their leaders make.

There is the argument that Iran is led by a government that is not reasonable and therefore would not consider its inevitable destruction before attacking Israel with a nuclear weapon. Of course, "not reasonable" is a label that would fit any government like an old pair of shoes , but is Iran's government less reasonable than any other? Let's consider a few facts.

Iran has not invaded another country in over 200 years. The last overt aggressive action that the Iranian government has taken against another nation is the taking of hostages from the U.S. embassy in 1979 (the Iran-Iraq War was a defensive one for Iran). If asked why the Iranians did this, I'm sure most politicians would respond with the "they hate us for our freedom" mantra. Unfortunately, most Americans are willing to believe that the leaders of foreign nations have the same motivations as the villains in comic books.

Assuming that the hostages were taken because the Iranians "hate us for our freedom," a few questions should immediately spring to mind. Why did they not take hostages from the German Embassy, or the French Embassy, or the Dutch Embassy? Were those countries so much less free than the United States that the Iranians would not have similar hatred toward them? Americans are asked to swallow this nonsense without question and ignore the Iranians' stated reason for the kidnapping: the U.S.-led overthrow of the democratically-elected Iranian government and subsequent installation and decades-long support of the brutal Shah.

U.S. taxpayers are now being asked to once again abandon cause-effect reasoning in order to support the next steps on the path to war with Iran. They are asked to assume that somehow the results of a military conflict with Iran would be different from the results of the military conflicts in Iraq and Afganistan. After 10 years and trillions of dollars, not to mention lost American and civilian lives, absolutely nothing has been accomplished by either of those wars. Neither has America been rendered freer as a result of them. On the contrary, Americans now live in what any lucid person would describe as an Orwellian police state, complete with electronic surveillance, warrantless searches and seizures, and summary execution of U.S. citizens - without trial or even indictment - at the order of an American dictator. These have been the results of the "War on Terror." No sane person should expect anything but more of the same if it is expanded further.

Ron Paul was far too polite in responding to the "What if Iran..." question. It is time for Americans to stop worshipping their military establishment and start thinking critically about these issues. Whether they develop a nuclear weapon or not (which is their right as much as any sovereign nation's), Iran is never going to initiate war with it. What is certain is that if the U.S. government is allowed to lead its country into another destructive war, Americans will be less free, further in debt, and more hated around the world than they are now. The last ten years should be all the proof we need.

Tom Mullen is the author of A Return to Common Sense: Reawakening Liberty in the Inhabitants of America.

© Thomas Mullen 2011




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So logical . . .

This article is S-o-o-o-o logical that most people will never understand it.
They are too busy getting their logic from the talking heads on MSM.

I support the tr

uth.
I love our sons and daughters who are risking their lives and wants them to come home. I DO NOT SUPPORT WAR and I understand "The Universal Soldier" is who must end war.
THANK YOU Mr. Mullen. It is not fashionable, but it is moral.

Whatever else I said a minute ago, the last word I want to get in is
LOVE!

You are confusing support for

You are confusing support for the military with support for MISUSE of the military. Your freedom has been guaranteed in the past because of the military. They have made great sacrifices, including their lives in some instances. The fact that they are sent on fools' errands should in no way depreciate your appreciation for them.

I was sent to Iraq in 2004-2005. I had no desire to go. I saw no reason for our involvement, but I was a member of the military. I don't get to chose where and when I am sent.

If you are concerned about misuse of the military, then YOU need to put the pressure on your politicians, or work to replace them. At the same time, I feel compelled to address other members of the military who seem to have little interest in political affairs. People in the military are more affected than anyone else by the foreign policy of this nation. They need to get educated, and then involved in educating others.

While the Hatch Act prevents people in the military from participating in partisan political activities, it in no way inhibits their involvement in educating themselves and ensuring that others. When I was in, we periodically received classes in how to deal with an illegal order. Now, it has become vital for everyone in the military - and law enforcement to know what constitutes an illegal order.

And so, if you have a problem with how the military is being misused, don't blame those who are ready to sacrifice for you. Blame the Chicken Hawks who are so ready to send others to bleed and die for their enrichment and aggrandizement.

deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm

deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm explain the 49 mass graves where Iraqi soilders were buried by US Army tanks with blades on the front and bulldozers. Many were buried alive. Just because the US news media didn't report this doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Bob Marshall

upon joining, you SWORE to uphold/defend the USC

Hence, it's your DUTY to refuse orders which violate the USC
(that's what "defending it" MEANS).
So when you take part in UNdeclared (and hence UNconstitutional) wars, you are directly violating your oath by undermining that which you swore to defend (and the very foundation of our liberties).
So please don't characterize your assaults on my freedom as defending it. And please spare us the tiring Nuremberg defense. If they ordered you to shoot your mother, would you do that as well ??

They fight

for those who profit from war. Despicable really.

Live Free Or Die

Tom Mullen's picture

Confusing Thanks with Blame

Greg,

I agree that the soldiers who serve in the military do not choose where they go. I do not blame them for the wars. At the same time, the statement "Your freedom has been guaranteed in the past because of the military. They have made great sacrifices, including their lives in some instances" is false. It is true that they have paid with their lives, mostly with good intentions. But the sacrifice of their lives in any of the wars since WWII has not guaranteed my freedom. Not one bit. Those lives were wasted by politiicans who spent them.

There is no reason for me to thank military people for my freedom. That doesn't mean that I blame them for the wars. One does not logically follow from the other. I may admire the fact that they were willing to risk their lives for freedom, but at the same time I cannot thank them for being duped into making me less free and substantially poorer, or for inciting so much hatred around the world, which is what these wars have done.

We have no way out

The number one obstacle we have are the Evangelical Christians. Israel must be protected at all costs.

Israel must rule the Biblical land in order for Christ to return. When he does return, all Jews who do not convert to Christianity supposedly will be incinerated and the believers will be lifted into heaven.

As God's chosen people, the Jews are to be protected from harm until the battle of Armageddon, at which point they must accept Jesus as the Messiah or die.

So my question to the Evangelical Christians would be this. Don't they WANT Israel to be attacked? Don't they WANT Armageddon to happen?

Why are they trying to delay the Rapture?

so, perhaps I'm not really an "Evangelical"

Christian; I'm probably not. I'm not very keen on proselyting anyone to my faith these days--LOL!

But . . . this is collectivizing again. Not ALL "evangelical" Christians are warmongers; not all Christians who are not evangelical are pro-peace--

I grind my axe over and over again:

Not all Muslims are terrorists

Not all Jews are Zionists

Not all Christians are warmongers

amen.

*wink*

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

I hope it doesn't take Israel being annihilated....

to wake Evangelicals to wake up that the state of Israel is NOT the Israel of either the Old or New Testaments.

there is a . . .

(*scratching my head*) vague/fuzzy Old Testament prophecy (there's a better word for vague/fuzzy, but I can't think it right now)--

that many of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will be destroyed in the 'last days', and that those will be the 'wicked'. But not all. It's very clear about that. So . . . the good inhabitants of Jerusalem (whatever their religion) will remain--

But, you are correct; the state of Israel is not the Israel of either the Old or New Testaments.

obscure.

That is a better word; the Christian Zionists don't seem to be aware of it.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Great article.

Great article. I get upset sometimes over Ron Paul not being able to state with authority his foreign policy stance during debates the way Newt does when stating outright bull s#$%t.

It would be good for Paul to summarize some of your good points by stating them loud and clear and with authority like your conclusion for example. Instead very often after a debate some article like yours pop up defending Ron Paul's position better than Ron Paul himself does during the debates. Like you put it he is 'far too polite'...

Listen to this podcast

http://theuglytruth.podbean.com

Learn something about the middle east.

Let's not forget the military...

... does not choose its mission.

The military doesn't go anywhere their civilian masters do not send them.

End media prejudice against Ron Paul in 2012.
Signup at http://boycotts4paul.com
or discuss at
http://dailypaul.com/165850/ending-the-media-prejudice-again...

Thank God!

I can't wait till their civilian 'masters' send them into the streets of America. Maybe then we can finally throw out this Constitutional Republic and get the Democracy(at gunpoint like Iraq) we so truly deserve.

Maybe someday the troops will actually give a shit about this country and their oath to the Constitution and go after the domestic enemies but I doubt it. Killing hadjis is so much more fun.

"Dying to Win"

An extremely relevant lecture by Robert Pape, Professor of Political Science, University of Chicago:

http://www.dailypaul.com/178772/video-powerful-evidence-that...

The mountain of evidence condensed into a nutshell: We are attacked almost ENTIRELY BECAUSE we occupy/invade other countries. If we were to mind our own business instead of having military bases in 100+ countries, we could get by with a LOT LESS military, save a lot of money, and properly "defend" our own nation, instead of aggressively "offending" others.

Here is a good dose of common sense from the good doctor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixj4uHccFPs

"Truly bad article"

I came to this website to find out more about the candidate that I favor, and to find out how I can help. I was enjoying the site until I scrolled down and read this article. What nonsense! If your goal is to turn people away from Ron Paul, then you might just succeed. This article sounds completely anti-military, and worse yet, is insulting to the military and all her personnel. Then I read all of the comments. With a few exceptions, I am not certain I want to be associated with people who think this way.

Freedom is not free. I am sure you have heard this thousands of times. It is not propaganda. It is the truth. Are you so naive that you think other countries will simply leave us alone if we don't bother them? Do you think that the only reason other countries plot against us is because we are the big, mean bullies? That is pure silliness. We are a target for many reasons. They want our resources, our land, our waters, etc. They resent our freedom of religion. They resent our freedom of speech. They hate us just because we exist. It is not much different than the crusades. The church wanted to convert or kill any opposition. The problem now is that the enemy has guns and resources. Did Hitler leave other countries alone? Nope. Did Rome respect her neighbors? Nope. History is very clear on this. If you are not the big dog, you are a target.

We need a strong, capable military. We need men and women willing to fight for our freedom. Do they fight for things you and I don't necessarily support? Of course. That is their job. They leave their homes, jobs and families and go to foreign lands because they follow orders. Our job, as citizens, is to make sure that those orders come from someone who will follow the constitution. A military person does not get to pick and choose which orders to follow. They give up that right when they sign the papers. They are putting their faith in their country and the voters to make the right choices. In this, we have failed them. Don't fault them for not breaking their vows to follow your political agenda. Whether you are right or wrong is not their concern. They gave up their personal rights to protect you, and now your job is to protect them.

As I am sure you can tell, I am disgusted by the "blame the military" line of thinking. It is weak and cowardly. I will gladly applaud the men and women in the airport and anywhere else I see them. I don’t applaud them because I worship them. I applaud them because I respect them and their sacrifice of personal freedom. And I support Ron Paul. Please leave theory behind and embrace reality. The world is a dangerous place whether you like it or not. You insult all of us when you assume that we are unthinking sheep.

"Are you so naive that you think other countries ..."

"Are you so naive that you think other countries will simply leave us alone if we don't bother them?"

I don't consider that naivete - I think that's a given.

Do you, personally, initiate force against those who simply want to live their lives in peace?

For example, consider Switzerland. They're as free as Americans and probably much more prosperous; they have a practically invincible defense - every able-bodied adult citizen is armed and trained.

So howcome your boogeyman du jour hasn't been attacking them?

Freedom is my Worship Word!

I am retired military, who enlisted 5 days after high school

to "make South Vietnam safe from the communists." I have learned that the world is an ugly and dangerous place largely because we made it that way. Most people in the world just want to be left alone; but, many of those same people want to others to share our values. Leaving people alone just means that. We have not guaranteed a SINGLE country either democracy OR liberty. Remember, Germany and Japan were both functioning democracies in the 1920s. If you like movies, I would strongly suggest you see "The Sand Pebbles" and "The Seventh Dawn". Both ably captivate the futility of meddling in the affairs of others, no matter how noble the purposes. The essence of liberty is allowing the freedom to commit evil and make mistakes. The essence of justice is holding those accountable that do both.

This earlier article by

This earlier article by Mullen explains it very well. please don't give up without trying to understand our perspective. They are NOT fighting for our freedom:

http://thomasmullen.blogspot.com/2010/05/fighting-for-our-fr...

ecorob's picture

don't just hit the snooze button...

wake your butt up and get OUT of bed

if you are truly waking up, like you said, this article won't turn you off...if it does, you're still sleeping!

get with the program sam, and quit whining about the damn truth!

its not the military men and women who we are tired of...its the US government's foreign policy of hate and murder in MY name that we are tired of

just so you know, i AM a veteran, too...i took the oath and have NOT forgotten it!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!

No

I don't feel the author is blaming the military. What have you done lately? I turned in my application for Marine Corps OCS and will be heading to MEPS in the near future.

But I still feel this is a very, very truthful and well thought out article. I'll keep this short, with two points. (1) What right do we have to invade and f*** with foreign sovereign nations which pose no direct threat to us? and (2)Why hasn't Canada/Mexico/China/South Korea been attacked and invaded by Vietnam, North Korea, Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.?

(1)If any foreign nation decides to attack us, we will demolish them. Why should be militarily occupy countless (100+?) countries worldwide? Which one of these countries has made a hostile move on American soil? Offensive wars =/= defensive wars.

(2)I do not like to make this comparison, but I feel obligated to..

You said "Did Hitler leave other countries alone? Nope. Did Rome respect her neighbors? Nope."

How about this: How did Hitler and Rome end up? Hitler was crushed by the allied forces because of his aggressive actions. Rome was under constant attack by outsiders because of its habit of INVADING, OCCUPYING, and IMPLEMENTATION OF GOVERNMENT in foreign lands.

How about this: The Swiss keep to themselves. They are free, etc, all the things you claim are reasons that terrorists hate us. Why does no one hate them?

------------------

You argue off emotions, not on logical reasoning. Bin Laden and the Iranian hostage takers ADMITTED their reasoning for hating on America. It was because of our aggressive / imperialistic foreign policy and actions. We overthrew a democratically elected ally to install a dictator. Is that freedom?

Ask yourself this question: Which came first, illegal/unethical American intervention/occupation of the Middle East, or "terrorists."

I'll give you a hint, it doesn't rhyme with "derrorists."

The government of

...Canada has indeed assisted America/NATO etc. in the invasion and or occupation of other countries.

ecorob's picture

virtangel...

do you support torture?

in a non-hitleresque way?

is there such a thing? would it be called waterboarding?

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!

I respectfully disagree.

The military are being used to do Unconstitutional empire building. OUR country is invading and doing the things you are worried other countries will do to us. The military troops are NOT our troops when they wear NATO & UN emblems, they are the troops of the New Global Order.

I guess, it is like that old religious saying about hate the sin not the sinner. I don't hate the troops but I can not condone or thank them for what they are doing. I feel bad for them to be in such a hellish position.

There are soldiers who are in prison because they refused to wear the UN emblem and others who refused to go to Unconstitutional Wars. You do not hear about these men, they have risked all by doing the right thing. I thank them for their courage in resisting because doing the right thing is more difficult than going with the status quo.

Some years ago I said the same line as you and though much research and painful examination of history. I no longer hold that view. After reading about the Bonus Army, USS Liberty, Bay of Tonkin false flag and Smedley Butler's book "War is a Racket", "The Fog Of War" and much more it became obvious there are globalists who run the show and their current agenda is implementing UN Agenda 21.

In conclusion, I cannot Thank the soldiers, I can only hope more of them will realize they are being used not for the good of the people but the good of a globalist cartel.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

Great post!

Great post!

ecorob's picture

nail on the head, qs...

you hit the nail on the head!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!

So what would your answer be?

If we don't have a military, we are sitting ducks. You cannot honestly believe that other world powers believe in "live and let live." Greed is pervasive in all lands. Without a disincentive to attack us other countries/groups will be brazen. Pacifism is a nice fairy tale, but in the long run the pacifists die. I am not saying that I would not enjoy a pacific world, but until humans stop being humans it is not a reasonable expectation. Most people cannot even achieve peace within their own families.

I am thankful to service members for being willing to take the chance on liberty. Without them we are assured slavery to someone for something. People may argue that we are already in slavery to our government. In some respects I would agree. However, I am free to say this out loud, or in this case type it. I am able to voice my opinion on any matter without fear of reprisal. Unless I slander someone I am free to say what I want, as loudly as I want, and to anyone who will listen, including my elected and appointed officials. OWS is a prime example of that. No one has to agree with them, the police don't have to make it easy for them to be an annoyance, but they do have to let them continue their protests. Our military buys that freedom for us on a daily basis. It doesn't have to be in Iran or any other country. Their mere presence pays that price no matter their location on the globe.

Sorry if this is a long reply. I do respect your opinion and thank you for sharing with me.

No One ever said get rid of the military.

If we were following the Constitution and Bill of Rights we would not be in this predicament. Our troops would be home and our country would not be broke.

Our first step is to realize that we have a problem and Gen. Eisenhower tried to warn us of the Military INDUSTRIAL Complex in a speech before he left office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXtyIQjubU&feature=related

This is Russian tv discussing what one of them read in 1997, very interesting and telling in the fact that maybe we are not as free as we think but just following an Agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdcYl_sSBZ4&feature=related

There was a video on Youtube I saw that George W. Bush said "The Constitution Is Nothing But A Gawn Damn Piece Of Paper".

When I went to show my husband the video and it was taken down and I haven't seen it since.

You may be able to say what you want but I can guarantee you that you are being watched and are most likely on a list.

We are in deep doo doo and the first thing we have to do, is acknowledge it. Learn as much as possible before it is no longer available on the internet.

Do you know about the Bilderberg group here is good start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wmtZehfBCM&feature=related

Here is a man who tried to expose what is going on and was killed, his name is Larry McDonald.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csq9g5sX8v0

It is very difficult to discern the truth from the disinformation, Good luck

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

ecorob's picture

you're almost home, angel...

don't quit on us now, we need you!

you are soooo close!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!

Blaseboniface's picture

"In the long run pacifists die"? In the long run we all die.

Someone else said, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword." The question is do you want to live in a society based on Liberty or not? Do you not see the dilemma the soldiers in the military are put in when they take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States and then are asked to violate that Constitution? Do you not see that Preemptive War is straight out of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf? Do you not see if you imitate the bad guys, you become the bad guys? Do you not see if you violate the Principles laid down in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence in order to defend the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, you destroy what you claim to defend, that you destroy any excuse you think you had to go to war in the first place?

hello

I can't speak for every individual poster on here, but I think your position is much more aligned with Dr. Paul's than you realize.
You speak about the danger of not having an adequate military, and about the danger of pacifism, and you are right. The problem is that over time, our "Secretary of War" has been renamed to the "Secretary of Defense". There is no military budget, there is just a defense budget. Every penny spent on the military is not spent on defense. Many of the actions of our foreign policy needlessly put our troops in harms way, and endanger the country as a whole.
Ron Paul is for a STRONG national defense. That means protecting our borders, not Iraq's. Iraq was NEVER a threat to this country, as with Iran. Even if Iran got its hands on a nuclear bomb, and foolishly used it on us somehow, we have tens of thousands of nuclear bombs with ICBM capability and could blow up the entire world 20 times over. The Kentucky National Guard could defeat Iran. Osama Bin Laden said himself that his goal was to draw us into pointless wars across the globe to bleed us dry like the Soviets.
Dr. Paul believes in getting congressional approval and only fighting declared wars. The last war we fought out of defense, the last war we declared, and the last war we won, was WW2. When we declare war, we go in there, kick ass, and come home. When we don't, we send inadequate forces, and put our fighting men and women in harm's way, and don't come home for decades. The best way to "support the troops" is to not send them to fight in unnecessary, undeclared, and unending wars.
I'm glad you place such a value on Liberty, but it is important to realize that when a nation goes to war, their Liberties ALWAYS suffer. War is hell, and should be the last resort. But when our country is threatened, Dr. Paul's position is the best there is.

ecorob's picture

i agree, HC

...he is sooo close to realizing the truth!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!

Iran, LOL The old "Iran is a

Iran, LOL

The old "Iran is a threat" joke is getting old.

According to Numbers 5:11, abortions are supposed to be performed by priests, not doctors.
אני מקלל אותך עברית כי אתה לא שווה את המאמץ לקלל באנגלית

We the people are to blame

We the people are to blame not the military.

We celebrate the military because the people whom do the fighting at the behest of the elected elite are in fact us. They are our brothers, fathers, sisters, and mothers. Furthermore those who bleed or have bled for the US are not complicit in committing empiricism. They are simply fulfilling a constitutionally mandated function.

If you want to point blame at the military then point your finger at the Potus and Congress. To be frank, militarism has a long standing role in American history. From the Monroe Doctrine to the Banana wars. From the Mexican American war to Afghanistan today. All of those wars have been fought to protect 'American Interests' AKA what the monied elites at the time wanted make us believe is in our interest.

I was one of the only people I "met" (and later spouse) who . .

didn't turn our backs on the Viet Nam vets we met. We were the lucky ones who didn't get drafted.

I didn't engage in anti-war protests, because I was afraid it would hurt the soldiers.

But . . . the fact is that there are a lot of people 'over there', and they need to get home. Praising the wars won't get them home.

Clapping for them in airports (as per that beer commercial) won't get them home; it just makes the Americans who clap feel good about what is happening over there.

There is a fine line; I've struggled with it myself, between being anti-war and anti-soldier. I think it is possible. I think Dr. Paul does it well. I have never, ever 'booed' a soldier, not even in my heart and mind. When I see a soldier I think, "God bless him/her; bring him home. Help him/her stay safe; help him/her to make right choices."

When I see the high number of suicides . . .

I just want them to come home and for the wars to end.

I want to expose the people who start the wars, and that is always hard to do without appearing to be condemning the 'foot soldier'--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Ron Paul ! A true Patriot!

As a Marine veteran of three tours in Vietnam,i can honestly say i did things where i had to ask for God's forgiveness.Each of us are accountable for our actions in war and peace time. Sometime you carry guilt for years and one day you come apart.Remember, each serviceman and woman who was either in combat or in service of their country follows orders because they is what is drilled into them from day one. Ron Paul knows most Americans when their patriotism is question will support wars.our founders asked us to protect our borders from foreign enemies, not to nation build. There were more suicides from the Iraq-Afghanistan wars by US troops than anytime in our history. if anyone visits deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm they will see just one of the lies told to us by our government about what happened in Kuwait. You can also goggle "The Highway of Death" Smedley Butler said it best! "War is a racket." I read where Dick Cheney's estimated worth was just over one million before the gulf war and a few years later, it was 60 million. How many had to die for that to be possible?

Bob Marshall

Here's a tip to anyone here,

Here's a tip to anyone here, keep this article within the RP circle. It's stance on the military will outrage the general public and all good points will be lost. If you want to make this something that will help educate people I STRONGLY recommend making it more friendly, in the beginning, to the members of the military.

You all get my blood boiling every time I see you narrow your focus on the individual service member rather than the US Government, the politicians, or the system. You won't win over a single neo-con that way. Just my two cents.

I like how

It was said. This is what we are all about Waking up and Facing the truth now matter how much it hurts. I do not actually blame the men and women of the military I blame our Government and myself for not paying more attention but I am paying attention now and there will come a day when the men and women in the military have to make a choice on who to side with, I already seeing that lean this as much as our Military sides with Ron Paul in fact that is quite comforting to know that the people in our armed forces will side with the ones who standup for the constitution.

"Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past you must fight just to keep them alive"

Waking people up is how we

Waking people up is how we grow Ron Paul's support. That is why we shouldn't put too much sugar coating on the truth. What you are talking about-holding back our message because it might make him unpopular- is the opposite of what Dr. Paul has been doing for the last 25 years. Nobody narrowed their focus to enlistees. The article is about the worship of the national, military edifice. That is the whole point. Soldiers in our Army are that. They are not Heroes or Warriors or Liberators, the sword of God or any other such nonsense. They agree to join the army for a set period of time. They are not even truly "volunteers" as they are paid. They receive a paycheck which usually includes a generous bonus. All of that is in addition to the perks... which includes being treated like a demigod by our society. a free education. Lower prices on merchandise and services. Joining the U.S. military is in fact one of the surest starting points for those who seek to elevate themselves out of the gutter. It is even becoming popular with foreign nationals who get that additional boon of instant citizenship. The fact is "Here's a tip..." Patriotism is just one factor in a young man or woman's decision to join. The over riding consideration is self interest. The fact is the make up of the U.S. military is one that mirrors the U.S. public. Patriotic/unpatriotic, religious/atheistic, Good/Evil, Honest/Liar. It is nonsensical to assume that going to camp and doing jumping jacks at the bidding of the government instills anything in someone but proficiency in jumping jacks. Here is another shocker for you -most veterans have not engaged in combat. Most are mechanics and the like. Here's a tip, if you are happy like I am that you are not living in a world of sh..poop, then every time you see a plumber thank them for their service.

Steven E. Helsel

You can wake up people

You can wake up people without badmouthing military personnel and badmouthing them isn't a critical point to Dr. Paul's message. Dr. Paul's message has never been one to badmouth the military personnel.

I dont

Think that it is bad mouthing them. They also have a choice to make. I don't think the author of this article intentions were to bad mouth the military.

"Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past you must fight just to keep them alive"

In my opinion it is. The

In my opinion it is. The writer groups the men and women in uniform with the military establishment, which is the first mistake. I'm just saying that this is an unnecessary turn-off for a lot of people. If I were new to libertarianism, because this is bigger than one man, that might turn me off to the idea. One negative aspect can turn an entirely positive article into nothing. If it were essential to the case, I'd agree, but it's not. I don't want to sugarcoat the cost of the wars or why we're really in them. I don't want to sugarcoat my idea that we can and should abolish the TSA and the IRA, or any of my other ideas. But, there's no reason to group the military members into the problem. In fact, when you look at donations, they're on our side.

Sorry, duplicate.

Sorry, duplicate.

Bravo. Bravo! BRAVO!

Best thing I've read yet, Tom.

It took courage to write that.

I am SO SICK of war veterans. The WWII, I can understand & thank, but from there - forget it!

YOU weren't fighting for ANYTHING for me.
In fact, if no one would go, there couldn't be a war.
I saw a story on tv Sunday morning, about a marine whose legs & one arm were blown off. He's a cripple for NOTHING!

I always hark back to Ali's quote about why he wouldn't go to Vietnam, "No Viet Cong ever called me nigger."

As I watched all the vets assembling for Friday's parade, they were having such a good time in their army gear, uniforms, and with their jeeps & guns, etc. I wondered if part of the attraction of war was the opp'ty it gave to men to have all this male bonding stuff. It must be a real high because, if war WAS such a horror, & people getting killed & maimed was so awful, why wouldn't they be doing EVERYTHING THEY COULD to insure there were NO MORE WARS?

And, it's not just men. How can mothers send, or let their loved children off to fight in wars for nothing? You'll let your kid get in that kind of danger just over some flag waving, war mongering nonsense?

Someone tell me the answer to those questions.

I'd answer your questions,

I'd answer your questions, but your worldview is too small to grasp my answers.

Then may the Lord save us from those with "big world views"

and to Ausscyn:
Great post. But no military worshipers will ever address your questions, as the answers would force them to face truths that they prefer to cut and run from.
Physical courage is common. Moral courage is not.

Thankfulness

I can only speak for myself, but as an active duty soldier, please dont thank me for my service. I dont come up to you or go to your work and thank you for working.

well said

I am not in the military but one of the main reasons I am awake now is because I want all the military to come home, I don't see how its ok for people here in America in or out of the military to want fellow American/Humans to go fight for no reason other than to make the companies of the Military Industrial Complex more wealthy then they already are.

"Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past you must fight just to keep them alive"