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Ron Paul's "Israel can take care of themselves" debate answer hits Israeli news website

The most interesting thing to me is not what the article tells me, but how it is portrayed as well as how the comments (labeled talkbacks) displays a similar rift between Israelis on the subject.


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Remember the USS Liberty

New revelations in attack on American spy ship


"Four decades later, many of the more than two dozen Liberty survivors located and interviewed by the Tribune cannot talk about the attack without shouting or weeping.

Their anger has been stoked by the declassification of government documents and the recollections of former military personnel, including some quoted in this article for the first time, which strengthen doubts about the U.S. National Security Agency's position that it never intercepted the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots -- communications, according to those who remember seeing them, that showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel.


...Lloyd Painter...was serving as officer of the deck when the attack began. Painter said he testified that an Israeli torpedo boat "methodically machine-gunned one of our life rafts" that had been put over the side by crewmen preparing to abandon ship.

Painter, who spent 32 years as a Secret Service agent after leaving the Navy, charged that his testimony about the life rafts was purposely omitted.

Ward Boston recalled that, after McCain's one-week deadline expired, Kidd took the record compiled by the inquiry "and flew back to Washington, and I went back to Naples," the headquarters of the 6th Fleet.

"Two weeks later, he comes back to Naples and calls me from his office," Boston recalled in an interview. "In that deep voice, he said, 'Ward, they aren't interested in the facts. It's a political issue and we have to put a lid on it. We've been ordered to shut up.'

"It's time for the truth to come out," declared Boston, who is now 84. "There have been so many cover-ups.""

USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney talk video, must see:


A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

Israel, the "Ally"?

What is an ally?

By definition: "One that is allied with another, especially by treaty." Does America have a defense treaty with Israel? No.

Israel became a country in 1948. Has their military ever fought alongside the United States in war? Did Israel stand with the U.S. in Korea? In Vietnam? Did they help the British in the Falkland Islands? Did they fight in Granada? Are they in Afghanistan? In Pakistan? In Libya? Did they even offer to help? No, no and no.

An Israeli spy, Jonathan Pollard caused more damage to American national intelligence than anyone in U.S. history. Will Israel be successful in bribing the President to free him from his life sentence? Maybe, if the stakes are high enough.

Is Israel a signatory to the NNPT (Non Nuclear Proliferation Treaty)? No, they refuse.

The world knows they possess over 200 nuclear weapons at their plant in Dimona. Will they allow the IAEA to inspect it? No.

We all know that on June 8, 1967, they killed 34 American sailors and Marines aboard the U.S.S. Liberty and tried to sink the ship. Is that an action of an ally or an enemy of the American people?

So why does Huntsman, Bachmann et al want to defend Israel?

Who is the greater threat to peace in the Middle East, Iran or Israel?


So why does Huntsman, Bachmann et al want to defend Israel?

I'm not picking when I say this (Maybe it was rhetorical?): I'm surprised people ask that question.

It's a religious thing. They believe whoever stands with Israel, stands on the side of God.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

In reading the comment below made by one person on . . .

that article (Ezra)--

I see that there may be Americans who are 'afraid' of Israel. A sort of superstitious fear.

What do *they* know that *we* don't know?

I'm not sure, but I will stand for principle. The lack of loyalty that these American "leaders" have towards the constitution and the citizenry/land of America is appalling--


it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

it's one of those areas where . . .

religion and politics have crossed, and the result is a mutant monster.

These people don't understand the Bible; they seem to believe that God will protect those who promote violence and ally themselves with a nation, not a people, that has perpetuated violence. The nation of Israel has many critics among those who adhere to the religion of Judaism. But the nation of Israel has a mystique for many Christians.

It's a misunderstood scriptural passage that has turned into a religious superstition, and it has a lot of power.


it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

this is good . . .

to show that many people (in all countries) are rejecting collectivism, are rejecting the PTB.

Very good.

I'm not sure my 'friends' at Neturei Karta would be pleased; they are against war and rightly VERY concerned about the safety of Jews who live peacefully and prosperously in Iran, but showing that there is divergence of opinion in other countries/cultures is a powerful tool for freedom.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

With "friends" like these...

43. The Rebulicans will lose... thanks to idiots such as Ron Paul.

They will lose the election unless they TAKE THIS NUT CASE OUT.

From talkback #43, emphasis added.

One can only hope this is from someone unfamiliar with the idiomatic American English meaning of TAKE OUT implied in this context.

i laughed...

one of the comments actually flipped ben franklin's quote around and used it against paul.

"Stopping Iran from getting nuclear bombs is necessary for 'essential liberty' to exist. But Ron Paul is willing to give that up for the temporary safety of not being the first victim of Iran's plans."

and people think ron paul is the crazy one?

they also read from right to

they also read from right to left, so...


I lol'd

I lol'd

Tons of positive comments for Dr Paul


I love the comment about "Israel handling most of our security.

Gee, the country that continually spies on us, that bribes and blackmails our politicians, that strafes and nearly sinks one of our ships is handling most of our security. I feel safer already.

that comment had been 'removed' by . . .

the time I got on the link, but I saw that it had existed.

*shaking my head*

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

This is the comment he's

This is the comment he's referring to, it's Nr. 9 in that list.

" 9. Little Known FACT: Israel RUNS Most US Security-

Apparatuses on the homefront. Six or seven Israeli security firms stationed in Los Angeles and other cities run most of the US's security concerning communications and deciphering threats. Why? Because they do it BETTER and CHEAPER than the giant, beaurocratic FBI, CIA and Homeland security. Israel is uniquely tied to the US in a way that no other nation has ever been. The security and defense relationship here is pure magic (note the complete lack of terrorist attacks against the US!). Top US brass have said repeatedly that what Israel provides the US with is ESSENTIAL and MORE THAN PAYS FOR ITSELF (the meager $3billion) and has already saved countless American lives. Ron Paul is talking out of his backside: if he were elected, after his first briefing on security matters he'd change his tune in two seconds and start kissing Israels backside. Americans who complain about Israel should SHUT THEIR MOUTHS AND BLESS THEIR LUCKY STARS that we have Israel as a friend. When we weren't so close to Israel we had our Naval warships blown up: embassies blown up, marine barracks blown up, planes flown into our buildings, etc. Right after 9/11 America woke up, took Israel as it's closest ally and WALLAH! a safer America. Yeah, that's simple folks. Get over it. Israel rocks and is better friends with American THAN ANY OTHER NATION!!!

Ezra , US (11.23.11) "

ecorob's picture

you're a fool!

and an illiterate one, at that...

its voila, its french, you dufus...

are we supposed to respect your opinion?

just where were you educated?

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

thank you . . .

yes, that is quite arrogant.

And how did things get to this 'pass'? The U.S. was 'helpless', apparently, and why/how?

*shaking my head*

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--


of the Hasbara warrior comments are hilarious. The chutzpah is Legendary.

"Give a man a gun, and he could rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he could rob the world."

They DID sink one of our ships. U.S.S. Liberty.


"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[3] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1][4]

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty.[5]

Attack survivors contacted in 2007, by John M. Crewdson for a Chicago Tribune article about the attack, "to a man" rejected Israel's mistaken identity explanation.[6]

Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, the director of the NSA, told Congress that the attack "couldn't be anything else but deliberate."[6]

The deputy director of the NSA, Louis Tordella, stated that the attack "might have been ordered by some senior [Israeli] commander on the Sinai Peninsula who wrongly suspected that the LIBERTY was monitoring his activities."[6]

The attack remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where U.S. military forces were killed that was never investigated by the United States Congress."[7]


I once watched a whole film about the USS Liberty

I think this is the film: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311...

Things have been wrong for a very long time....

thank you for not forgetting . . .

I only heard the neo-conservative version of that debacle.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--