4 votes

Stopping terrorism without the PATRIOT Act?

I'd like to get some good news articles, sound bites, etc on how to stop terrorism in a constitutional way. Obviously, neocons will never believe that if we pull out of the middle east, they won't try to attack us. So, with that in mind, how could a government that stays within the confines of the constitution battle terrorism?

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Start by prosecuting all the officials responsible for...

letting 911 happen. Even a dork like Glenn Beck admits EVERY GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT failed on 911. We didn't need counter-terrorism during the Cold War and the Soviet KGB was far more sophisticated than anything we have faced from the Middle East.

Airplane defense

Alexander Cockburn wrote about using passenger popular defense committees instead of the TSA. http://www.antiwar.com/cockburn/cockburn-col.html

It would have been far better to ask passengers to form popular defense committees on every plane, bring their own food and drink, keep alert for trouble, and look after themselves. A properly vigilant democracy of the air.

Maybe it work work like this:before the flight a few who wanted to volunteer for deputization would present themselves to the rest of the passengers for a yea or nay vote, perhaps subject to pilot consent as well. The airline might provide them with guns. This would be deputization so there would be no airline liability for any mishaps.

If the neocons are right and we're really in a war, a citizen militia, even if very ad hoc, is much better than the TSA and air marshals for deterring terrorism on planes. It would improve the American character by having citizens be pro-active rather than subjects of a bureaucracy, as well as having citizens get used to trusting other citizens with guns

There are obvious undertones with regard to jury nullification as well that would be good for Americans to be exposed to.

When Rand Paul addressed

When Rand Paul addressed Congress earlier this year about it, he provided some information that suggested the Patriot Act actually does the reverse of what is intended to do. Lots of good info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXLGyOdE_tc

To stop terrorism

Stop Terrorizing!

I don't have a video,

but the solution is pretty simple: End the CIA, the FBI, the nation-building and empire-spreading machines, the "humanitarian" efforts, the pre-emptive wars, the foreign aid...stay home and mind our own business. And IF (a big if) the scumbags at the Pentagon and CIA and FBI and FEMA don't start up some covert efforts to false-flag us all, there won't be any "terrorism".

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

Reform, not end

Stupid to end cia and fbi. they need to be reformed and an end put to their mischievous ways. every country has intelligence to keep them safe. what you are saying is that we should have no intelligence. that is where your line of argument antagonizes other people. i am sure even neutral switzerland has its intelligence analysts.

fema also needs to be reformed, not ended. in some interviews, he makes that clear and in some interviews, he does not mention it. the rescue operations should be kept but the other stuff they do like insurance should be eliminated and allow private insurance companies to provide this insurance so people don't build homes in areas of high risk.

jj

Which Type?

Hijacking and bombings can be suicidal or non-suicidal.

To stop more non-suicidal attacks, allow self-defense, and pay attention. These type of hijackings were fairly common when I was younger, mostly because people were fleeing from Cuba or to Cuba, or some other country. They stopped because we refused to go there.

James Woods reported the terrorists rehearsing before they acted. Next time, follow up. It only took a matter of minutes for the 4th plane's passengers to act in self-defense after the first three planes went down, so the FBI and others should be able to take such tips seriously, now, too.

Of course, this was before passengers were so rigorously disarmed and deprived of their manicure scissors and toothpaste, so now they would have even fewer weapons.

Suicidal attacks are more difficult, but much simpler to stop. Just stop bullying people and trampling their rights and feelings. (Yes, feelings matter, as domestic teenagers are among those most likely to commit suicidal attacks due to mistreatment, and angry, hopeless youngsters in other countries are no different.) Prevention is key.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Probably the same way

that it was battled for the previous 200 years, throughout all the wars and the cold war and various kinds of threats.

The simple answer is that the Patriot Act isn't needed, and was never needed.
The purpose of the Patriot Act is to destroy America.

Both you and byte are missing why they think it's a good idea.

They believe it's okay because it's preemptive.

I say, there isn't a threat or much of one to begin with but way less if we stop butting into other countries business.

I don't want to ever give up my freedom for any reason though regardless. I'm sure the great majority of us agree with that.

No amount of security, whether in truth or imagined is worth their loss.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

So, just for discussion's sake,

if I unilaterally decided that the neocons are a threat to my security and freedom, I should be permitted to pre-emptively kill them without cause, trial, or process?

Just because I feel like it?

By their logic they would be in trouble.

Can you guess my response. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

WEHT the Weather Underground?

The Ku Klux Klan?
The Unabomber?

Just a few examples of terrorists who were stopped without benefit of the Patriot Act.

Stop invading countries and meddling in foreign affairs.

Try diplomacy for a change. Leave people alone and they might do the same to you.

Go through the courts like a law abiding freedom loving country with proof of crimes or the potential of.

Stop pretending that you can stop it in the first place.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Make a law Forcing Everyone to Pack

Anti-liberty, yes, but that's what these terror-mongers crave.

If everyone had a handgun on their person, not only would the chance of a terror plot be foiled a higher percentage of the time, but your violent crimes would decrease. With more dead rapists, carjackers, and murderers, there would be less criminal types gumming up the judicial system.

In Kennesaw, GA a law like this was passed:

"Kennesaw once again was in the news on May 1, 1982, when the city unanimously passed a law requiring "every head of household to maintain a firearm together with ammunition." After passage of the law, the burglary rate in Kennesaw declined and even today, the City has the lowest crime rate in Cobb County."

Or you could get rid of the FBI's terrorist frame-up program where a lot of these so-called terror plots begin. They never would have happened without the FBI locating a weak-minded person, talking him up for months and then supplying him with the equipment.

This is the truth of the matter

Although a Cellphone is a very heavy projectile it can only be discharged at about 10 ft per second,This renders it an ineffective deterrent.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Yea, but

I heard the iphone 6 has a pepper spray cartridge and retractable tazer prongs.

Really?

Will they pass through TSA?,LOL.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Why stop with "terrorism"?

If the Patriot Act is so successful at stopping terrorism, why not use it to stop all the bank robberies? How about stopping gang violence? Drunk driving accidents? Domestic violence? Rape and molestation? Premeditated murder? Purse snatching?

Or better yet, why isn't the Patriot Act used to stop the crooks on Wall Street and in Washington D.C. from stealing from the American citizens and destroying our country and economy?

"I support the Declaration of Independence and I interpret the Constitution."

there is a large group of people who believe that . . .

terrorism is a problem, because *they* have been told that it is by a small group of people who have perpetuated terrorism.

This premise is not accurate, because there is an assumption that terrorism exists without provocation and that it exists as *we* have been told by MSM that it exists.

If a person chooses not to accept that premise, how can that person have dialogue with a person who believes those who have told *them* they are in danger from terrorists?

It's a big quagmire.

Until it is no longer in the interests of a small group of manipulative people who control the world's money supply--

to use the concept of terrorism as a weapon to frighten Americans, there will be no solution.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Maybe I phrased that question

Maybe I phrased that question wrong. Let me play neocon..."If tewwowists had a bomb, and we didnt know until it went off, who we should to go after, wouldnt u wish we had the repeal the 4th ammendment act" Basically...what constitutes probable cause? Do judges have a playbook for this?

One world, under government, with power and money for the elite

I wish Paul would have

I wish Paul would have pointed out that the Patriot Act still fails. The "show bomber" and the "underwear bomber" both had opportunities to strike but failed and were caught "after" the fact just like McVeigh.

It would battle terrorism just like it battles other crimes. They gather intelligence, get leads from people, and whatever else. Look at how they have found potential shooters from gathering weapons, the internet, etc. While the war on drugs is ridiculous it would probably also be similar to trying to stop drug rings or other crime rings. Child slavery, sex slavery, and all sorts of other crimes can still be investigated without the use of Patriot Act.

The Government is the terrorist

Stop the Government, you will stop terrorism.

I have a couple of shotguns

I have never been attacked by terrorists.

 
Freedom, Prosperity and Peace

Haha...*like*

Haha...*like*

One world, under government, with power and money for the elite

We have been thru

a revolution, a civil war, 2 World Wars, a Cold War, numerous other "wars", and we NEVER needed a Patriot Act before. Nor would any Americans have accepted torture as a reasonable measure under any circumstances.

But now, because of a few cave dwellers with box cutters(supposedly), we now need to peek into Granny's underwear when she wants to go from Oshkosh to Muskogee on an airplane. And we have to arrest or even kill Americans without a charge or without habeas corpus, or without a lawyer, or without a trial. We can incarcerate them and torture them by taking them somehwere and inflicting all manner of torture on them, just because some psychopath in the White House says so. And even worse, there are paid minions who will carry out these heinous acts on command!
This government is OUT OF CONTROL, AND EVIL !

What I do is simply ridicule these neocon imbeciles for what they are. They do not deserve respect.

I think he needs to address this

What I understand is that the federal gov't had all the intelligence on the 9/11 hijackers but that they didn't synthesize the info well enough to prevent the attack. Am I correct? If so, shouldn't the emphasis be more on analysis of gathered info?

Also, the norm before that day was that if you were hijacked by terrorists you would just do as they said and everything would be fine. No one expected the hijackers to do what they did. If terrorists tried the 9/11 thing again it would end up like Flight 93 every time.

If more citizens packed heat

less of them would be attacked.

Absolutely

If we all had the Constitutional undeniable right to protect our own Person and Property we would have nothing to worry about.We would no longer need the Government to protect us,Let me deal with it in my front yard in a personal nature.True crime prevention.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.