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Arrest McCain and Levin Now. Senate to Vote on Military Detention of Americans.

Why would Founders create a class of criminal, "domestic enemies" of the "United States Constitution," if there were no such thing?

If you think soldiers won't do it, think again.  Some of the stupidest people on Earth join the Army, and they, in contrast to the many intelligent young patriots who join for the right reasons, will always be there.  Reading blogs arguing about Posse Comitatus and martial law I've seen comments like "I expect I might be picking a few civvies (civilians) off the wire someday...but I like my home on base and my kids need the nice playground.  Life is good."

I also have close relatives in.  I couldn't make this up.

Now Chris Anders, Legislative Counsel for the ACLU writes:

The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing....

Anders warns us that the worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday (today.)

The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.  Senators need to hear from you, on whether you think your front yard is part of a “battlefield” and if any president can send the military anywhere in the world to imprison civilians without charge or trial.

In an unusual closing of ranks, many conservative websites have picked up and run the ACLU Alert either verbatim or as part of their own action alerts.  ConservativeByte.com in "Senate Moves To Allow Military To Arrest Americans Without Charge Or Trial" writes:

The Senate is set to vote on a bill today that would define the whole of the United States as a “battlefield” and allow the U.S. Military to arrest American citizens in their own back yard without charge or trial.

Translation: this is not a liberal or conservative thing.  This is an American thing.

In support of the bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.”  Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”

Anders in his legislative alert asks a good question: Why now?

Hasn’t anyone told the Senate that Osama bin Laden is dead, that the president is pulling all of the combat troops out of Iraq and trying to figure out how to get combat troops out of Afghanistan too? And American citizens and people picked up on American or Canadian or British streets being sent to military prisons indefinitely without even being charged with a crime. Really? Does anyone think this is a good idea? And why now?

Although Obama has threatened to veto the bill over the provision, this is not the first time McCain has revealed his totalitarian, un-American impulses.  Last year he was lead sponsor S. 3081 which outlined the process by which Americans may be held indefinitely, without notice of their Miranda Rights, and without ever being charged with a crime, after being arrested in their own country.  Due to popular outcry, the bill never became law.  

What today's action tells us is that this was not a one-off by McCain and whatever anti-Constitution gang he can round up at the moment.  He will keep trying until this president or another one signs it.  The ACLU is recommending people lobby their senators to support the Udall Amendment which will delete the harmful provisions and replace them with a "requirement for an orderly Congressional review of detention power."

I have a better idea.  In crafting this backroom deal and attempting to form what amounts to an anti-Constitution faction, McCain and Levin have betrayed their primary oath of office to "protect, uphold and defend the United States Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic."

Although the Bill of Rights has been steadily eroded since the arrest of American citizen Jose Padilla as an "enemy combatant" by the Bush administration, Bush released him to a civilian trial just before his detention was properly tested in the Supreme Court, after being upheld in the Fourth Circuit.  The test would have been whether "enemy combatant" or any other abrogation of the Bill of Rights which applied to traditional war could apply in the first open-ended "war" from which, as the "enemy" is a loose network rather than a hierarchy, there is no one from whom to accept surrender.  Thus the question has been left open, until this attempt to codify what is in essence flatly unconstitutional.

 At his trial none of the original plots alleged by the government against Padilla, such as a plan to blow up a "dirty bomb" in New York or blow up apartments using gas lines, were ever mentioned.  He was convicted mainly on the strength of an Al-Qaeda "application form" which included a line for "emergency contact."  Not only would this laughable measure point an incriminating finger at whomever was listed, it flies in the face of interviews with Jihadis who say when you go to Jihad, if you tell your family anything, you tell them only that you will not be coming back.

Interestingly, the attorney for another terrorism suspect,  Binyam Mohamed, said that during his imprisonment in CIA "black box" prisons, he was told that he would be implicating people such as Padilla, under torture, which included slicing his genitals with razor blades.  Attorney Clive Stafford Smith said his client told him:

" Some of the time they said that some big people in al-Qaeda were talking about me. Some of the time they told me that the U.S. had a story they wanted from me and it was their job to get it. They talked about Jose Padilla and they said I was going to testify against him and big people. They named Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Ibn Sheikh al-Libi. I was meant to be working with these people, giving them ideas like the dirty bomb. It is hard to pin down the exact story, because what they wanted changed all the time. First in Morocco it changed, then when I was in the Dark Prison, then in Bagram and again in Guantanamo Bay."

Smith explains this in his book "The Eight O'Clock Ferry to the Windward Side."  Andy Worthington writes:

"The U.S. authorities insisted that Padilla and Binyam had dinner with various high-up members of al-Qaeda the night before Padilla was to fly off to America. According to their theory the dinner party had to have been on the evening of April 3rd in Karachi, Binyam was meant to have dined with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, Sheikh al-Libi, Ramzi bin al-Shibh and Jose Padilla." What made the scenario "absurd," as Stafford Smith pointed out, was that "two of the conspirators were already in U.S. custody at the time -- Abu Zubaydah was seized six days before, on 28 March 2002, and al-Libi had been held since November 2001."

The Founders  created two categories of enemies in the Oath of Office: foreign and domestic.  Furthermore, they stipulated that the enemies to be primarily defended against would be not enemies of the president, nor even of the nation at large, but specifically enemies of "the United States Constitution," enshrined in the founding document.  The Constitution declares in the Sixth Amendment of the Bill of Rights that:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

The creation of a permanent state of war in the "war on terror" is precisely what the Founders warned of the most strenuously.  McCain and Levin have treacherously undertaken to overturn the Bill of Rights of the Constitution permanently through this device.  Since the Constitution, in the Oath of Office, essentially creates a class of criminal, a "domestic enemy" of the "United States Constitution," it is incumbent upon loyal senators to declare treason within their midst, and to direct the Sergeant at Arms to effect the arrest of John McCain and Carl Levin as such domestic enemies.

This has been a long time coming.

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. . . . [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and . . . degeneracy of manners and of morals. . . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare..." -  James Madison

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What we have to ask is...

Are we supposed to believe our Senators and Representatives sell us out one minute, and the next minute turn around and feel SO CONCERNED from the bottom of their hearts they need to keep us safe, that they have to do things like this "for us"? REALLY?

In fact, why is it the ones who sell out the most, "care" the most about our security? Hmmmmmmm.

Oh, and tell all the cops you know it appears to be a way to gradually replace them as our national police force. After all, we're in a budget crisis, and it's cheaper to use soldiers.

Fact Check?

Hey guys,

There is someone on another thread (Keldor) asking for the specific text which relates to the alleged expansion of the battlefield to the States. I don't have time to look it up, but if someone does, it would be great if it were posted here.

I did read the ACLU article a day or two ago, and it struck me as a partisan hit piece. ("Republicans are bad. Democrats are good." The phrasing "*Even* Ron Paul spoke against it..." was especially irritating.) In short, the article did not solicit much confidence. I'm not saying your outrage is unjustified, but if someone has the time to point to the specific text of the senate bill...please do.

This is why I've been trying to get people

to stop posting new threads on the same topic. For answers to your questions please take a look here:

And here's a comment-loaded thread from Thanksgiving:

And here's one on Rand's ammendment...though we didn't make much headway on that: http://www.dailypaul.com/189475/recent-posts-senator-rand-pa...

And here's one about how we have too many threads about the National Defense Authorization Act, posted by Dale, about five NDAA threads ago:

I sincerely have no idea what you mean when you say the ACLU article was partisan. I see how it's been twisted by OTHER media, but not the ACLU.

This is it, there can't be too many new threads

setting the net on fire will send a signal. The next thing you'll be doing is biting the dust at the hands of 18-year-olds just following orders.

The considered opinion of the Senior Legislative Counsel for the Washington office of the National ACLU is pretty solid for me.

Here is something he says on possible disinfo about this:


"Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1013 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens, but it does not have to use its power unless ordered to do so.

But you don’t have to believe us. Instead, read what one of the bill’s sponsors, Sen. Lindsey Graham said about it on the Senate floor: “1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”


A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

I posted this earlier today

1) Reading what was said on the Senate Floor today, it appears that the guys who drafted this wanted to include language that spared American Citizens from all the draconian measures reserved for alleged terrorists, but Obama explicitly wanted American Citizens included. Also it appears that Obama gets full power in making these decisions, whereas there used to be Congressional oversight (?) See:

2) Glenn Greenwald said on Twitter: With very few exceptions, the McCain-Levin bill, awful though it is, doesn't create any powers beyond what the O Admin thinks it now has

3) Here's an apt criticism of the Act from Human Rights Watch:

The proposed provision allows for the military targeting of undefined forces "associated" with al Qaeda and the Taliban, as well as those deemed to be "substantially supporting" those forces, with no connection to 9/11. The provision is both overbroad and unnecessary.

So...Cat Stevens is going to be arrested and detained forever? He gave money to terrorists didn't he?

4) The Ayotte ammendment supposedly brings back torture.

On 2), Military Commissions Act of 2006 leaves it

ambiguous as to whether American citizens are included, no specific exclusion. This bill however specifically includes Americans.

Linsdsey Graham (R-SC):

“1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”

link to Graham transcript, CSPAN:

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

I called my senators today

Saxby Chamblis and Johnny Isakson and told them this legislation was a gross violation of the 6 amendment.I facebooked everyone I know and sent them the Washington telephone numbers to call and sent them an article by congressman Abash explaining the despicable truth.


I have a feeling this has

I have a feeling this has more to do with getting these draconian controls in place before the banking collapse of the world economic system.

"The Terrorists wanna destroy our freedoms".

Do they, or do you, Senators Graham and McCain?

Me too! Some of the "rats"

are jumping ship and some are staying to protect their ill gotten gains....

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I know major allies who fund them" Gen. Dempsey referring to ISIS



Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

......Also put in a Call to RAND !!!

This is UNREAL..I wish i could honestly say it Shocked me but I have been dealing with the CREATURE known as John McCain for years and what really SHOCKS ME is that there are people who year in and year out keep SUPPORTING THIS EVIL P.O.S. ??

I will call my Reps in the morning.

But I think we ALL Should also Call RAND PAULS office!

If enough of us call RAND maybe he can SHUT THIS THING DOWN?

And YES McCain and Levin SHOULD be in JAIL !!!!

The Revolution NEEDS to...TARGET...McCain, Levin, Graham and ANYONE ELSE Who supports this EVIL...Lets FUND THE HELL OUT WHOEVER RUNS AGAINS THEM !!!!!

Rand already submitted an ammendment

striking section 1031.

See: Senator Rand Paul aims to kill “indefinte detention” section of DoD bill

This is an emasculated response

Both Rand AND Ron should put down the purse
and formally accuse these "men" of TREASON.

I'm glad this got posted here.

Now I see the whole picture. FEMA camps, Patriot Act, suspension of Habeas Corpus, HR 1955 , CODEX alimentarius the list goes on and on. So at what point will the American public stand up and do as our fore fathers instructed? To abolish any tyrannical Government.

Do not give into evil, but proceed ever more boldly against it.


they who vote for this or any other violation of our rights must be punished to fullest extent of the law!!"we have the right ,it is our duty to throw of such government and to provide new guards (Ron Paul) for our future security"..

Yeah, and for the millionth time, too!

It really is strange that so many people decided to make NEW threads on this exact same topic instead of bumping existing threads.

ecorob's picture

i don't need the federal gov't protecting me!

so, don't declare my home a battlefield!

is that CLEAR enough?

yes, i will contact my worthless senators here in tennessee on this one

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

ecorob's picture

why would mccain and levin do this?

why, indeed?

they ARE traitors to America...

when, my Lord and, oh, where will a righteous Judge stand up to indict them?

has our Country fallen so far...?

all that this country is founded on is being trampled upon and, worse, it has even been forcasted and forewarned to all of us

who will rise up?
who will stop this insanity of transgessions against our Country and our Constitution?
...these transgressions enacted by, and for, MORTAL men?

Ron Paul
our last hope

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Anders of the ACLU asks a good question, Why Now?

My suspicion, 3 letters: OWS.

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

Is it really new?

This was posted at Lew Rockwell today: Naomi Wolf addressing a Ron Paul Rally, talking about the Dense Authorization Act of 2007:

We've known for a long time that the President can deem ANYONE in the world an enemy combatant, and do with them as he pleases.

Glenn Greenwald tweeted today:
With very few exceptions, the McCain-Levin bill, awful though it is, doesn't create any powers beyond what the O Admin thinks it now has.

I'm still wondering if it broadens the criteria for who can be considered a "terrorist" and removes Congressional oversight altogether, while being kind enough to provide lawyers and maybe even a trial for the detainees (according to what Senator Levin said on the Senate floor today.)

Anyone know if this thing passed the Senate yet? It's getting late.

Thank you for the quotes...

I've never heard this James Madison quote before but i'm saving this so i will never forget.

"armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few"