65 votes

When Romney Runs as an Independent, Plus Random Advice and an Introduction

Ron Paul's support continues to grow. In 2008, the good Doctor received 7.8% of the votes cast in the New Hampshire Republican Primary. Despite more than tripling that total in 2012, the Dead Stream Media (DSM) continues to invent new and amusing reasons to dismiss his candidacy. One hysterical non-contributing zero from MSNBC even referred to Paul's candidacy as a fraud, clearly enraged that Huntsman wasn't declared the de facto runner up!

The DSM is taking bets on when all non-Mitt Republicans will concede, but we know that the fun is just beginning. Let us take a moment to consider what will happen after Ron rocks Super Tuesday. Will Mitt Romney run as an Independent to split the Republican vote?

Now it's true that I might be getting ahead of myself. Let's take a moment to review the argument against Mitt's electability from my first Daily Paul blog.

The argument against Mitt in six sentences or less:

The neoconservative influence in mainstream America has declined since 2008, when John McCain was defeated. One strike against Mitt.

Mitt doesn't inspire anyone - not on the Right nor any Independents. As Tom Woods recently remarked, how many of you were inspired to learn more about "The Philosophy of Mitt Romney?!" Strike two.

The Ron Paul base of the Republican Party has grown dramatically since 2008 and very few, if any, of these enthusiastic supporters will vote Mitt just to beat Barack. I'd like to add that personally, I prefer Obama in that scenario. If it's 4 more years of Barack versus 8 more years of Mitt, give me Obama and let me take my chances with another libertarian candidate in 2016 rather than 2020.

Strike three Mitt. Grab some bench.

Mitt can't win the general election. He has no chance. I'm counting on Republican voters realizing this over the next two months, but it's important that we all stress this to every Republican we know. When our friends and family say "Ron Paul is unelectable," go right back at them. "Sorry Billy Bob, but it's Mitt that is unelectable. Here's why...." Mitt's supporters will compromise. We won't.

Three Humble Pieces of Advice for the Campaign

1. When Dr. Paul is asked if he would consider running as an Independent, he should start openly wondering about Mitt's thoughts on an Independent run. After all, Mitt could split the Republican vote!

2. A recent tactic used by the DSM is to point out Ron's lack of ... ahem... success in passing despicable liberty crushing legislation, like the other DC parasites we are told to worship. The question at the New Hampshire debate went along the lines of, "Dr. Paul, how can voters expect you to be able to build a coalition to get things done, when none of your measures ever receive support in Congress?"

Ron needs to look these media cretins right in the eye and say, "Excuse me, what is the public approval rating for Congress? 15%? 18%? So you're telling me that I should be joining Congress in doing things that mainstream Americans obviously resent? I think siding with Americans, sticking to my principles and the Constitution is far more important than getting along with my fellow Congressmen."

It's not like Congress doesn't pass enough laws. People despise Congress because nearly all of the laws they pass are terrible. So we need to shove that one right back in their DSM faces. This criticism is seriously misguided and symptomatic of a media that is out of touch with America.

3. Waste no money on Rick Santorum. I loved the Betrayal ad too, but Rick defeats himself every time he opens his mouth. Remember, Rick succeeded in Iowa through no effort of his own. Rick is a bizarro human. Had he put any effort into Iowa, he would have received fewer votes. He's only competent in being completely, hopelessly incompetent. (He's also a stark raving lunatic.) He'll be out of this race in a month if we simply ignore him. Better yet, let him stay in the race and gain some momentum here and there. His presence amuses and reminds me that there are lower forms of human life than my own. Thank you, Rick.

(The above paragraph can be copied by replacing "Rick" with "Newt" and "Santorum" with "Gingrich".)

That's my take on things right now. Take it or leave it. It costs you nothing.

Introduction and Helpful Links

I was very overwhelmed by the positive response to my first blog. I'd like to dive right in and spit hot fire, but maybe we should get to know each other first. I'm old fashioned.

I started following Dr. Paul in 2007 but I grew up a statist.

In the mid-1990's I joined the Marines. They liked me, so I was selected for Embassy Guard duty. That put me close to the heart of the State. I came to understand how unelected bureaucracies function and influence outcomes. That experience laid the groundwork for my future libertarianism. After leaving the Marines, I went to work as a defense contractor. I viewed corruption first hand, especially during the Iraq invasion. I saw how public opinion was manipulated to shield the reality of the war effort. I came to understand the propaganda of war very well. That experience forever turned me into a sworn enemy of the neoconservatives.

The silver lining of this background is that I have seen the world, good and bad. I've lived overseas for 10 of the last 15 years. I've experienced what it is like to be an American in a Muslim land. If I haven't seen it all, I've come close. (And I've probably thought of the rest. I have a sick mind. =D)

Those days are in the past, however. The Daily Paul community gets to experience a new me. I moved to California, found a great job (away from government), and can finally focus on starting my life apres l'etat. I can't wait to share it with you.

I want to link to some of my past work. I covered many topics and arguments that you run into as a Ron Paul supporter.

Libertarianism:
Breaking Down Jon Stewart's Challenges to Libertarianism

Jon Stewart and Libertarianism Part II

Economics:
Talking Past Each Other: MMT and Mises

Ben Bernanke: The Best Man for the Job

The Greatest Lie Ever Told

Life

Striving for Greatness: Lessons from my Father

David in Liberty is an Idiot, a Jerk, and a Troll

All of my previous blogs can be found here

Glad to make your acquaintance.

Follow me on twitter.
Facebook me.

David in Liberty




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I knew you sounded familiar...

I used to follow you on the Motley Fool! As soon as I saw the name David, and read this post, I knew it had to be the same guy. Then I followed a few of your links, which led directly back to the TMF blog, and my suspicions were confirmed. Keep doing what you're doing, regardless of the outlet; I'm a real fan of your work. The more intelligent, well-read people like you that are spreading this message, the better it will stick.

Thanks, David

Great posting. I take great encouragement knowing there are good people like you fighting alongside me.

Any chance Mitt or Newt will go third party

after Ron Paul secures the nomination? And if they do, who would they hurt, Ron Paul or Barrack Obama? Both Newt and Mitt are closer to Obama than to Paul. They both like an expanded role for government and unfettered use of the military the same as Obama. Paul wants only Congress to have the power to authorize war, as spelled out in the Constitution, and he wants to shrink government to its constitutional functions. I therefore think if either Mitt or Newt launches a third-party effort it would guarantee Republican victory.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Sore Loser Laws

No current Republican candidate is going to run as an independent or as a third party. Our fifty states mostly have sore loser laws and will inhibit a third party run. I know the main theme of the article is Mitt Romney, but no current GOP candidate is going to run a nationwide general election independent or third party candidacy.

I once thought that, but then

I found out that the sore loser laws don't apply to presidential runs.
So, they actually could do it, and so could Ron.
I'm not saying I recommend it, though.

Dr. Paul Might Run For VP With Gary Johnson

If he's considering anything, I think that would be it.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

GJ/RP

Honestly, I'd love to see a GJ/RP ticket. GJ has executive experience (8 years as governor) and Ron Paul has the dedicated fanbase, momentum, name recognition to get Gary into the debates. I feel like this could be devestating to the GOP and might actually lead to the biggest shake-up we've had to the duopoly in a generation.

I'd wager that Gary thought it'd be wise to give Ron a call before he dropped out. This is one place where they're both working for the same cause and some coördination wouldn't hurt.

"Government is an institution which prevents injustice other than such as it commits itself." -Ibn Khaldūn (1332-1406)

David, Great stuff as always.

David,

Great stuff as always. I'm always amazed that Romney continues to do as well as he does in these things. I've yet to meet anyone who is legitimately excited about him. Who exactly are his campaign volunteers? It's just crazy...

I think you sell Santorum a little short though. Remember, the "social conservatives" don't like Romney any more than we do, but they also have been brainwashed into thinking that Ron Paul is dangerous (oh no! he'll legalize drugs! he's not pro-life enough! he'll let dem arabs walk over here and start bossing us around!).

Nice of you to link some of your old blogs for nostalgia purposes. I take offense to that last one though. You are not an idiot or a troll! ;)

--Matt

Dude, Where's My Freedom?
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

Agree...

...esp. with your 3 humble pieces of advice. Have been thinking similarly.

Great Post and My Humble Thoughts.

If Mitt gets the nomination I imagine that the debates will be no more interesting to watch or listen to than two school children going back and forth.

GREAT post. I especially like, "When our friends and family say "Ron Paul is unelectable," go right back at them. "Sorry Billy Bob, but it's Mitt that is unelectable. Here's why...." Mitt's supporters will compromise. We won't." I have already decided that I will be writing in Dr. Paul's name since, like many have said here, we have a chance to vote for someone who is not the lesser of two evils.

My brother is one of those "anyone but (DEMOCRAT)" and I have been working on him for awhile. Lots of good stuff here to create a new perspective from your post.

I have been making it a point for myself to try and understand what Paul is talking about beyond repeating him from his debates, televised interviews, and what I read in news articles themselves. I have finished End the FED, and Liberty Defined. I have enjoyed what I have learned over the last few weeks and will be following his example by picking up a book for this Saturday instead of getting hammered. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Thanks for the suggestions. I will let you know how they go!!

Other Suggestions

Many of these are free online:

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/27725.aspx

"I hate government as much as government hates freedom, and that's a lot." - Mike Malin

Check out my PowerPoint: http://www.slideshare.net/anarcholibertarian/why-do-they-hat...

And my Ron Paul vs. Lincoln video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi

I Suggest

How Capitalism Saved America: The Untold History of Our Country, from the Pilgrims to the Present by my hero Thomas DiLorenzo. In my neo-con days it put me on the libertarian path. I remember being struck by how penetrating and no-holds-barred DiLorenzo's language was.

"I hate government as much as government hates freedom, and that's a lot." - Mike Malin

Check out my PowerPoint: http://www.slideshare.net/anarcholibertarian/why-do-they-hat...

And my Ron Paul vs. Lincoln video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi

Great Post and My Humble Thoughts.

If Mitt gets the nomination I imagine that the debates will be no more interesting to watch or listen to than two school children going back and forth.

GREAT post. I especially like, "When our friends and family say "Ron Paul is unelectable," go right back at them. "Sorry Billy Bob, but it's Mitt that is unelectable. Here's why...." Mitt's supporters will compromise. We won't." I have already decided that I will be writing in Dr. Paul's name since, like many have said here, we have a chance to vote for someone who is not the lesser of two evils.

My brother is one of those "anyone but (DEMOCRAT)" and I have been working on him for awhile. Lots of good stuff here to create a new perspective from your post.

I have been making it a point for myself to try and understand what Paul is talking about beyond repeating him from his debates, televised interviews, and what I read in news articles themselves. I have finished End the FED and Liberty Defined. I have very much enjoyed what I have learned over the last few weeks and will be following his example by picking up a book for this Saturday instead of going out and getting hammered. Any suggestions?

Fantastic Post

...after reading David's post, I decided to read other articles he has written like "The Greatest Lie Ever Told"
and "What I Learned from My Father."

Read that David was also a marine. He's got Body, Mind and Spirit working together. Post more David...please.

Best post I've read in a long time. Very effective responses to trick questions. Hope you are working with the campaign staff...

fonta

The Reason They Ask Whether Paul Might Run 3rd Party

is because he did it once before.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

egapele's picture

Good point - worst case scenario is 4 years of Obama or 8 years

of Mitt. I hadn't thought of that. It's horrific either way, though.

What an interesting past and unique gift you have - you have lived in the belly of the beast and yet you somehow managed to stay true to yourself and ended up so seemingly unscathed. I'm sure you'd agree though that as bad as things are in this world, it's good to know that there's a dangerous rock star out there named Ron Paul. :)

I think that would backfire

1. When Dr. Paul is asked if he would consider running as an Independent, he should start openly wondering about Mitt's thoughts on an Independent run. After all, Mitt could split the Republican vote!

The MSM then go to Mitt and say, "Ron Paul has suggested that you might run as an independent if you don't get the GOP nomination. Any comments?"

Mitt puts on his fake grimace (which looks a lot like his fake smile) and says: "I absolutely will not run as an independent. Not now and not ever. Anybody who won't absolutely rule out an independent run has no business being in the GOP primaries in the first place. They shouldn't even call themselves Republicans in my opinion."

Then that opens up another round of "why won't Ron Paul just rule it out?" questions, and all the other candidates get to pile on about how they're quite happy to pledge not to run as an independent and Paul's unwillingness to do the same calls into question ...

Nothing gained. It just keeps a fake issue alive. Bad idea.

Alternative suggestion: "In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "Let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no.' I know you guys in the media would rather have absolute-sounding promises from politicians who would think nothing of saying the exact opposite the next day if they thought it would help them get elected, but when I tell you that I have no desire to run, and that it's not my plan, it's the plain and simple truth. And you don't know what to do with that."

This doesn't keep the issue alive.

The MSM is keeping the issue alive.
The MSM will always keep the issue alive because they want to force Ron Paul to commit himself so that his answer can be used against him.
The MSM is not going to ask Romney about his 3rd party intentions because Ron Paul asks them to. If they thought it would corner Ron Paul, they would have done it long ago and could do it anyway.

They don't want to ask Romney because they don't want to put him in the same class as Ron Paul.
Ron Paul is the only "unelectable" candidate. No one else is "unelectable" right up until they announce that they are withdrawing from the race. Ron Paul was "unelectable" even before he announced his candidacy and he will remain "unelectable" right up until he beats Obama in November.

BTW, if they did ask Romney then Ron Paul could thank them for finally conceding that it is a two man race and that he could actually beat Romney.

******************************
The Virtual Conspiracy

I have to disagree

If Ron Paul suggested that the media ask Mitt, that gives Mitt an excuse not just to say "no" but also to criticize Paul for not saying "no." And all the other candidates too, every one of whom would readily answer "no." It's bad enough having the media stooges asking Paul about it as often as they do, now we're supposed to want the media stooges to ask the other candidates if they want to pile on?

And I'm not sure where it would somehow make it look like a two-way race. They'd ask all of them and paste the results together. Here's the sound track:
"No."
"Absolutely not."
"In all candor, absolutely and unequivocally no."
"Of course not."
"No!"
"... I have no plans of doing that. Tomorrow’s a big day. We’re going to see what happens ..."

soon no Stream anymore

We all need to prepare to go even further than calling that stinkin' heap "Dead Stream Media" - it will be Dead Dogma Media in a few weeks! They are burning themselves up so fast with their lying - all they can opt for is a Pandemic (likely intentionally by the Elite) or a false-flag CNN lead "invsion" of the aliens.

By normal standards they are done at CNN and others!

When Neocons & Facism go to sleep, they look under the bed for Ron Paul and "WE THE PEOPLE"!

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." M.Mead

great post

I love the part about turning the question about coalition back to the abysmal approval ratings of congress as well!
great post!

A Farmer for Ron Paul

Working Arguments and great Advice

I like the ideas and thoughts presented - especially the warning to the self-presumed Republican Elite of four more years with Obama - since many will stick with the pest in place, rather than having 8 more yrs with a "fresh" lie. They better take Ron Paul or will be completely taken apart by the socialist Obama! The USA will be a perfect Police State/Dictatorship soon after the elections, unless Ron Paul becomes President for at least 10-15 hours to revoke some stuff and cut of many Hydra heads in hours!

When Neocons & Facism go to sleep, they look under the bed for Ron Paul and "WE THE PEOPLE"!

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." M.Mead

Nice post. I like your

Nice post. I like your ideas.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)

Romskey

The argument against Mitt Romney in four words or less: He's a f***ing communist.

The @$$hole party?

Would that be who would be pushing Perry as a 3rd party candidate?

It's an interesting read but I just don't think Perry could split the vote. After all I got this far down and I can't even remember... Mitt who?...This could be fun #3 it is!

suggestions: response

"2. A recent tactic used by the DSM is to point out Ron's lack of ... ahem... success in passing despicable liberty crushing legislation, like the other DC parasites we are told to worship. The question at the New Hampshire debate went along the lines of, "Dr. Paul, how can voters expect you to be able to build a coalition to get things done, when none of your measures ever receive support in Congress?"

Ron needs to look these media cretins right in the eye and say, "Excuse me, what is the public approval rating for Congress? 15%? 18%? So you're telling me that I should be joining Congress in doing things that mainstream Americans obviously resent? I think siding with Americans, sticking to my principles and the Constitution is far more important than getting along with my fellow Congressmen."

It's not like Congress doesn't pass enough laws. People despise Congress because nearly all of the laws they pass are terrible. So we need to shove that one right back in their DSM faces. This criticism is seriously misguided and symptomatic of a media that is out of touch with America."

good advise!

suggestion 1:
I disagree. Mitt can end this argument too easy. Then we are back at step1 and they say: "Mitt had said no, we can't you?"

suggestion 3:
I disagree. We have to manage, that Rick does not get a bump from S.C.

________________________________________
my Ron Paul video collection:

www.youtube.com/austria4ronpaul
(4 years RP, over 2300 videos)

Tip my hat to you, davidinliberty!

Plz continue to use your writing skills to support us in spreading the truth of FREEDOM vs the self-anointed's propaganda. The lies of social engineering, woven into the fabric of our country, must to be exposed for the rot that it is. Thank you for sharing, davidinliberty!

Thank you for endorsing my suggestion...

...that we all should be talking about a 3rd party / independent run by Romney.
On November 1, 2011, disgusted with the fact that the speculation about Ron Paul's hypothetical run for president as an independent had infected the Daily Paul, I posted "We need to start talking about a 3rd party run by Mitt Romney".

I have always believed that this was the best response by everyone (including, of course, Ron Paul himself) to questions related to any nonGOP campaign for the presidency.

It simultaneously draws attention to the MSM prejudice in only asking RP about this, projects an optimistic attitude, confirms the legitimacy of RPs candidacy, and reminds the voter of the potential risks of NOT nominating Ron Paul.

I would advise Dr. Paul to go further and refuse to answer until they had at least ASKED Romney about HIS contingency plans. Refuse to allow the reporter to laugh it off. Ask the reporter what he plans to do when his boss figures out that HE
should be replaced. (OK, don't ask that unless the reporter is obnoxiously pushy about it.)

******************************
The Virtual Conspiracy

BUMP

I think many others should read this.
D

Hit the nail right on the head!

I will not vote for Mitt. He and Hillary should against Obama in the democrat primaries. I am tired of the same old same old Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama.....not wasting my vote anymore.

Well done sir.

Well done.

Great Post - favorite part:

"The question at the New Hampshire debate went along the lines of, "Dr. Paul, how can voters expect you to be able to build a coalition to get things done, when none of your measures ever receive support in Congress?"

Ron needs to look these media cretins right in the eye and say, "Excuse me, what is the public approval rating for Congress? 15%? 18%? So you're telling me that I should be joining Congress in doing things that mainstream Americans obviously resent? I think siding with Americans, sticking to my principles and the Constitution is far more important than getting along with my fellow Congressmen."

Good luck to you and your endeavors!

LivingTheDream

Perfectly laid out!!! Sent a

Perfectly laid out!!! Sent a follow request on twitter.

posted on Twitter

Thanks.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

This is a great line to tweet

"Sorry Billy Bob, but it's #MittRomney that is unelectable. Here's why...." Mitt's supporters will compromise. http://tinyurl.com/6qems3y #tcot

Bump

Bump

I too think that it's time it be suggested to ask Romney if he will be running 3rd party.

RON PAUL 2012 * Restore America * Bring The Troops Home
http://www.texasuncensored.blogspot.com