-7 votes

Regarding the Super Brochures, please read!

Let me start off by acknowledging that this is my third topic regarding this matter this week, and I am aware of that.

I have stated that I will not bring this up again unless I have some new relevant information. Now that I do I would just like to ask you to take the facts you are about to be presented with into consideration before you donate additional money to the Super Brochure project.

I'm not making this topic to anger people, to blame anyone for anything, or to tell anyone what to do. I think the Super Brochure is a great initiative and a tremendous effort. But since it has grown to such an immense size and scope I think there's reason to reevaluate and debate its effectiveness.

So here goes:

1) The campaign gets mail rates cheaper, greater than 66% off for being non-profit and bulk mail. (16.8 cents vs 45) http://dbcalc.usps.gov/ choose standard mail option, and click "non-profit" box.

2) The campaign targets its message based upon phone from home results, and other data collection. It's a slap in the face to thousands of volunteers not to use this data. http://phone.ronpaul2012.com

3) The campaign doesn't oversell. Once someone is a supporter, it can only hurt us to tell them additional views that they may disagree with. The campaign's issue cards address one issue for a reason. http://www.ronpaul2012.co...

4) The campaign has experts at developing professional direct mail pieces, and has a multi-million dollar budget for sending targeted, professional, cost-efficient mail. -- Look at the FEC reports.

Even if the brochure was 100% perfect, they are spending 150%+ more than the campaign on postage. http://dbcalc.usps.gov/
Even if the brochure was 100% perfect, they are wasting hundreds of thousands of hours of volunteer time because they can't use phone from home data to target specific mail pieces.
Even if it were perfect, it is duplicating the effort of the campaign - the campaign is already sending direct mail, this is just duplicating those efforts.

Some additional data:

The current project is to mail brochures to NV (193,147), NY (651,322) and FL (779,017) for a total of 1,623,486 brochures. At $0.55 per brochure that equals sales of $892,917.30.

1,623,486 mail pieces for $892,917.30 - let's take out the cost of printing of .10c(which is a huge premium on actual cost)

$892,917.30 - $162,348.6 = $730,568.7 for postage.

Let's use our bulk mail postage calculator at http://dbcalc.usps.gov and assume Mixed AADC (Most likely the campaign has lists that are 3 or 5 digit zip, but for arguments sake..)

Total postage cost from the campaign:
$272,745.648

Leaving a difference of:
$730,568.7 - $272,745.648 =
$457,823 . The campaign could be saving an extra $50,000(est) by dropping th mail in the target state DNDC facility (NV, etc)

The campaign could be saving nearly half a million with just these 3 states calculated.
----------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I'm not the original author of everything above.

If you don't care about this, then don't reply. This is not a thread for mudslinging and blame games.

If you have something relevant to contribute, please do.

Thank you for you time.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

I see this got moved to off

I see this got moved to off topic too.

On the other hand the Super

On the other hand the Super Brochures seem to be very effective in reaching people. Even the MSM has remarked on how great these brochures are put together and explaining that people do read them. The brochure was also on the front page of the New York times. Plus, I saw a picture on here where Ron Paul is standing next to a guy with a Super Brochure in his hand, and Ron Paul is smiling. If Ron Paul is happy about the brochure then so am I. So to each his own. If some RP supporters can afford to donate to the official campaign and give to the Super Brochure efforts as well so be it. I don't think it's a slap in the face of the campaign volunteers. The campaign and the grassroots people both support RP, just in different ways. It's different ways of meeting the same goal for liberty.

Why is this moved to Off topic?

Hard facts that doesn't fit into the mainstream of this sites' agenda are labeled Off Topic?

Can the moderator who moved this please motivate why?

it's like armyfree

all over again.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

What about donors who max out

What about donors who max out for the campaign contributions? Can't they have a way to help the doc out by giving to this effort?

End the Fed. End the Wars. Problems Solved. Ron Paul.

Awesome project!

Every state, every county, every voter...mail on my friends!

This project is broad-based and creative, the supporters like it and are showing their satisfaction through donations. If the service was less than attractive it would have never taken off, and surely it would not be sunstained as it is. Ah, the free-market has votes yes on this project, when the consumer changes (or a more attractive service is provided) so will the product.

Enonesoch

Why do you post this here?

Your post doesn't address anything in the OP. It's almost like you're trying to make a point out of being ignorant to the topic.

Furthermore I'd question the markets ability to determine the effectiveness of a product that's handed out for free. Unless you have some data regarding success rate there's no way to determine that.

After all the brochure talk, I looked at it on the DP and.....

After all the Super Brochure talk, I took at look at it on the DP and I really like it. I think it would have really gotten my attention. I say mail on!

Strange that you care so much....

I can't see why any genuine believer would take so much time to discourage a grassroots effort to promote the cause.

So basically?

You can't criticize the mainstream of this site without having your allegiance questioned?

You're either with us or against us?

That's the general sentiment i get from posts like yours.

Why can't we just have civil discussion instead of demagoguing?

Not exactly

Maybe more like, you can't spend your time attacking others' sincere efforts without people wondering what motivates you.

Not much to discuss. The Super Brochure project is fueled by the time and $$ of people who think it's important. It's not a government program so guess what? If you don't like it, you can get on with your life and put your energy into things that you do like.

Unless you can make a clear-cut, compelling case that this is strong negative, I don't see what purpose is served by wasting everyone's time nitpicking it.

I'm not part of the mainstream of this site, if such a thing exists. Just killing some time chiming in on this discussion....Does my point make sense? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you terrified that the SB project is going to bring down the Ron Paul 2012 campaign? If so, exactly how do you see this playing out?

I'm not attacking anybody

I'm presenting facts that aren't in line with other people's opinion, if that's considered attacking on this site then there's no way we are ever gonna be able to debate anything.

Frankly I find some peoples hostile reactions to this absolutely ridiculous.

What I'm trying to accomplish is to provide possible donors with the most information possible.

Why is it that it's allowed to market the Super Brochure as a good place to donate, but not allowed to try to sway people to other projects which you think (and have facts that back up) are more effective?

BMWJIM's picture

Looking at all of your post on this site, I do question

you as an individual and, as a patriot. It has NOTHING to do with allegience, it has to do with HONESTY.

I look at all of your post and question your honesty. That's all.

Jim

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

You question me as a patriot?

Well I guess all I can say is thanks for proving my point.

Bottomline for me .....

..... if the campaign has an issue with the Super Brochure or feels it is anyway a problem, then they may critique it, offer suggestions, or specifically ask those doing it to stop.

Personally, I see the whole effort as a good thing ....

I also see such efforts as this post (particularly given it's the 3rd time within a week) as an effort to stop the motion .....

Now I might be wrong, but that's just my take on the matter ....

I Like the Brochure

I'm looking forward to helping in additional mailings and especially in my state, California. Also I plan to distribute them in my area... I 'm not as good at calling or one-on-one promotion. But with the brochure I expect to find it more fun and easy. I don't worry that one issue or another should be less visible. Fact is, I don't agree with all issues... but accept that Paul is the best individual for the cause. I'd rather know the whole package from the beginning and the priorities. I wlll not worry about pro-choice for instance until I want to focus on that. I am a woman and you say you want to reach women; don't hide anything from anyone unless you want blowback. I think Dr. Paul is the best leader and statesman for restoring the Republic and healthy foreign relations. The brochure gives a whole overview does it not? I haven't had one in my hands, only viewed online. And look forward to holding one soon!

Gwen Kraft

"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

This is my conclusion.

I think the superbrochure is good and effective for canvassing, handing out at sign rallies, leaving at places of business such as restaurants or grocery stores or recreational centers. I don't know how effective it is being used as a mailer to the supervoters. The content and organization of the superbrochure exterior panel needs to be edited and redesigned for clarity and effectiveness. Feedback and ideas need to be communicated between Ron Paul supporters and the people working with the superbrochure to make the necessary changes to maximize effectiveness and persuasion. I would love to help with the editing of the content and organization if I know who I should contact for this purpose. As far as supporting the mailing of the superbrochure effort or not, I adamantly believe that we should not bash people for either supporting or not supporting it. We should respect people's decision to use the money and resources however they want to.

Kimmie

Give up, Poita_,I've tried

Give up, Poita_,

I've tried this, too. Too many people see any constructive criticism on the Super Brochures as an attack on grassroots efforts and the Super Brochure creators.

I, for one, am inspired by the Super Brochure people. I think it is amazing what they have been able to get done. I get the impression that you have just as much admiration.

I love the brochure in general, but there are a few things about it that I think are an Achilles' heel and I'd really like to eliminate any weakness and see the brochures continue.

The problem is that suggesting different wording for the purpose of the campaign appears to be sacrilege to many ideologues here. The ironic part is that Dr. Paul, himself is often much more metered in his rhetoric depending on the audience.

Here's the basic logic:

The Super Brochure has some very bold statements such as

"As president, Ron Paul will...End the Income Tax"

This is where people have to be objective and not emotional. If you said this to a bunch of random people who are barely familiar with Dr. Paul and are currently not supporters, what percentage of them do you think would laugh at that claim? I would guess the majority. Remember, these are not "End the Fed" readers. They are not Daily Paul readers. They are not primed for this information and there are no more details in the brochure to put it in perspective. To them, it just looks like a completely unrealistic and ideological fantasy and reinforces the stereotype that has been fed to them by the MSM about Dr. Paul being out-of-touch. It doesn't matter what we know and think. It is not about us. It is about attracting brand new people.

Sure, it is much better as a canvasing tool, because a RP supporter can actually explain things in more detail, but these are mailed straight to homes.

All I'd like to see is a few refinements on the brochures to eliminate bizarre-sounding claims like this. If we could get an approval rating from a random sample of SB recipients, we would find that a certain number of them were turned off by such claims. Sure, maybe it's only 20% that are turned off, but it could be higher. We just don't know and a few anecdotal stories of canvasers don't count. I'd rather make the brochure more likely to be positively received by everybody that gets one.

Also, I don't give a crap about mail bulk rates and the rest. I don't like that argument. This is a separate effort and I'm sure those guys are doing the best they can.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)

There were several things not

There were several things not right in the brochure, my least favorite one being that "He will fix healthcare"..but there was more than one thing, print too small..blah blah... it took me awhile to decide if I liked it, and I do. It clearly says it is not from the campaign. I wish they would fix some of the things but it is worth it anyway. BTW, Ron is into phasing most things. Even the FED..

C_T_CZ's picture

Superbrochure Image Links

They have already revised the content. If you have a look at the images they have posted on their website, you can see it does not say "...End the Income Tax". It now says "...Phase out the income tax."

Superbrochure Front Side

Superbrochure Back Side

I have a physical copy of the original Superbrochure, and in looking at the image on their website, there are many improvements :)

I'm sure they are open for more input as well! I for one applaud their efforts with this and just ordered a case of 900 for distributing locally!

rEVOLutionary Advertising Corps
It's Better Than Sitting On Your Rump Doing Nothing™

OK, that's good to know!

OK, that's good to know!

Personally, I still think it sounds like he is claiming that he WILL completely phase these things out while in office as opposed to just getting the ball rolling in that direction.

Completely ending the income tax would take decades and that is assuming that all the progressives wither away. Nobody in their right mind thinks that Ron Paul will actually end the income tax if he's elected. That is completely different than an ideal. Besides, he has often said that he could realistically live with a 15% income tax.

Don't you want your Presidential candidate to sound realistic?

Just like he wants to get rid of Social Security, he actually says he will start measures in that direction so old people don't get hurt. And just like he wants to end the Fed, but says that he wants to start with an Audit.

I feel strongly that claims made in his name sound realistic and actually achievable. Mixing what he WILL do with his longer term vision is a mistake.

Ron Paul is not saying he WILL end/phase out any of these things if elected. He will START to phase things out. There is a reason he doesn't get up there and promise to get these things done.

Anyway, I'm done arguing this. The Super Brochure people have put in a ton of money and effort into this thing and they get to call the shots.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)

Learn to canvass

Good post. If you want to volunteer, please study "canvassing." Please don't confuse this brochure with canvassing...it has nothing to do with canvassing.

Here's my intro to canvassing video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5hibexsQVY

Check out http://iroots.org/
"If you’re into political activism, at least for Ron Paul if not for anyone else, I strongly recommend spending some time with iroots.org." - Tom Woods

I don't understand this main

I don't understand this main argument. To get a bulkrate mail price you only have to send 200 pieces at one time. I am sure Erik is sending 200 at a time now and probably got the bulk rate permit for mailing them. It is not expensive at all to get the bulk mail rate especially since we are sending out a huge amount. They have to be addressed and all that and am sure he has others working with him, but I would be very surprised if it is not cost effective. You posted this 3 times. It reminds me of the newstards asking over and over if Paul will run 3rd party. People are getting calls for more info when some get an SB. Give it a rest. I saw some dumb things in that brochure, no doubt..but many do not read it as closely as I, and they can ask if they have questions.

This is the first time I've posted this

Don't spread misinformation, I made two other topics, but the content was not even remotely similar.

You be the judge if it's cost effective or not, my post only talks about it in relative terms.

Poita..do not take me on.

Poita..do not take me on. This was the FIRST sentence of this post. "Let me start off by acknowledging that this is my third topic regarding this matter this week, and I am aware of that. "

If it is regarding the same matter then I guess it was um..let us say remotely similar. NOW I really take offense to someone stating I am spreading misinformation. I make mistakes sometime but darn sure not this time. I have decided you are a jerk.
I have also decided you lied in your OP when you said you "were aware" that it was your third post regarding this matter.

this is not the campaign...

this is the grassroots

overselling? do multiple TV commercials oversell? does hearing a candidate's name over and over and over and over in the MSM oversell?

have you ever said to yourself "if i see one more beer commercial, i'm never having another drink"?

paying a higher postage rate, ok so what? what's the price of somebody's personal satisfaction to know exactly where their money is going?

You are intentionally

You are intentionally ignoring his explanation of over-selling. He clearly is not referring to the quantity of brochures. He is referring to the breadth of issues brought up by the brochures.

If you are going to reply, at least make an honest argument.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)

you clearly didn't understand my post

I made very distinct points in my post

overselling, postage rates and personal choice

No, I didn't. The original

No, I didn't.

The original poster was clear in what he meant by "over-selling".

You then made your argument based on the idea of repetition. Nobody has ever said anything about repetition.

I didn't even address postage or personal choice in my reply to you.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)

I think

I think the point about overselling had a pretty clear motivation...

Regarding postage and personal satisfaction you are perfectly entitled to your own opinion, like I said, I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do...