39 votes

Must Watch: The Roots of Christian Zionism: How Scofield Sowed Seeds of Apostasy

Incredible Film

The Roots of Christian Zionism: How Scofield Sowed Seeds of Apostasy

http://vimeo.com/29901084

There are a lot of Christians struggling
with the war issue. They need to watch this
film so they can help to undo the lies.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

What's Your Eschatology?

28 questions to determine your eschatological understanding
http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=44107

Upon completion of the quiz, it shows you what school of interpretation that you adhere to.

You might also want to take A Quiz On The Rapture
http://www.todaysamericandream.com/aqotr.html

Eight questions that are intended to stimulate thought by forcing the reader to examine what the Bible has to say in relation to the question that is asked,

Ron Paul 2012 - Restoring the Founding Fathers American Dream

Amillenialist, but many questions were odd!

You Scored as Amillenialist
Amillenialism believes that the 1000 year reign is not literal but figurative, and that Christ began to reign at his ascension. People take some prophetic scripture far too literally in your view.

I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!

AND SEMI-Partial-Preterist - BAD QUIZ!

OK, I just wikied these two terms, and realized that this quiz is definitely written from a Protestant perspective, because it blends the Old and New Covenants into one and the same thing regarding End Times. This is NOT how Catholics and Orthodox Christians understand Scripture AT ALL!

So, I am Amillenialist, in that Christ's 1000 year reign is a symbolic number, beginning with his Ascension until He returns, but that His reign is Spiritual, as he reigns from Heaven, seated at the right hand of God the Father.

However, I am also Partial-Preterist, in that Old Covenant Prophecies had already been fulfilled in 70AD when God destroyed the Jewish Temple. The New Covenant supercedes the Old Covenant; the Church IS Israel.

These are two different things altogether - the Second Coming of Jesus and the Last Judgement (End Times), vs. the Jews (those not accepting Jesus Christ as Messiah) in the Old Covenant.

Although I do believe that the Anti-Christ will reign in the Third Temple, and I believe it will be a Pope (based on all the evidence I've seen), and there will be a False Prophet who will lead us into WWIII. This is why "Christian Zionism" isn't "Christian" at all - it is SATANISM!

Christian Zionists are trying to bring about WWIII so they can rebuild the Temple so the Anti-Christ can reign. This is why Russia refuses to sanction Iran - The Orthodox Church does NOT want to bring about End Times, it will do whatever is necessary to STOP SATAN, and that means not allowing the Jewish Temple to be re-built.

I wrote an article about this, about Santorum being the False Prophet and the next Pope the Anti-Christ - prophecy is just TOO GLARING in this case. But now I'm thinking either Gingrich or Romney might even be the False Prophet. Especially since Romney is a Mormon, a follower of a False Prophet whose believers believe that THEY CAN BECOME GODS!!! Now I'm REALLY FREAKING OUT!!!

http://www.nolanchart.com/article9254-rick-santorum-can-win-...

I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!

They need an "I don't know" category

And if everyone were honest, we'd all select "I don't know" for all of those questions.

BTW: My answers broke the quiz program. LOL

The quiz is very faulty.

it doesn't leave room for Atheists who think this is ALL just imagination.

I already know mine...

which is the heretical kind LOL

I was a full preterist, though now I lean towards a combination of full preterist/idealist only because I don't like to try to claim I know all the answers, and I'm done with studying the Bible like a madman, I'd rather live my life instead ;)

What I love about both views is that they have a very positive outlook on the future, meaning TPTB will go down sooner or later, and the freedom message happens to be consistent with it. His freedom message promotes a very hopeful vision for America and gives amazing answers to all of our current problems.

Dispensationalism unfortunately has a crap ton of fearmongering associated with it: "If you ain't saved, you'll be left behind!" Growing up I saw movies about being left behind, and it was absolutely terrifying.

While many said if you're saved, it's no problem, the fear was just too strong that it led me to think I wasn't saved! Dispensationalism also created for me a fatalistic view that the world is utterly doomed and there is no hope, and so I remember a preacher even saying it's probably a good idea to stop trying to live my life and to sell all my belongings, since the end was so 'near'. It was like a sort of apathy: "why bother polishing a sinking ship?" It's brainwashing at it's best.

Kinda reminds me of what the media currently does about Iran and terrorism.

Fear

Fear is not the means by which people are brought to God. The truth regarding Jesus Christ, as the way, the true and living way, is the means. That if you confess Jesus as Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you SHALL be saved. Look at Romans 10:9-10. The evidence for you, yourself, that you are born again is detailed in the records in the Book of Acts. It's S.I.T. Want to know more?

StretchMac

America is great because she is good

Thank you for posting!

Great quote from Alexis de Toqueville:

"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great".

That seems to be where we are headed right now, sadly.

still watching...

Working for US policy in the mideast that serves AMERICA's interests http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/

American Vision

At one time I had Gary DeMarr (head of American Vision)for a Sunday School Teacher. He is a fine man and an excellent teacher, but his escatology is flawed in my opinion. I suggest you read the book The Pre-Wrath Rapture of The Church by Marvin Rosenthal. The most obvious departure from Scofield's escatology is his arguement that the Church will go through the Great Tribulation and the Rapture of the Church will not occur until after the Abomination of Desolation which Christ said would fulfill the prophesy of Daniel the Prophet (Matthew chapter 24). Unless you are willing to get into a prolonged argument with people who actually read their Bibles, I wouldn't try to use this video to persuade them to vote for Ron Paul. I'm voting for Ron Paul because I don't want to be part of the Revived Roman Empire which enters into a covenant with Israel (the covenant of death and hell). If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest you don't get into this argument.

I agree, that's why I am Orthodox, not Roman Catholic!

ANYMORE!

I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!

Its not going to occur. It

Its not going to occur. It already did. Bible prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD. Long over and done with. Rejoice, you live under the New Covenant - the age without end, unlike the age of the Mosaic covenant.

Howdy!

Glad to see a fellow Preterist for Ron Paul!
Blessings!

Wow, this is encouraging to find other preterist among us.......

We are Seekers of the Truth. Preterism has also helped me to be much more optimistic about our future too. I pray that more Christians would read & study the word for themselves in lieu of having another interpret it for them. Also, that they research and learn the meaning of dispensationalism and scolfield's perversion of the doctrine. And John Darby's stealing of a young girls dream to create the rapture theory to deceive the people and re-ignite the church.

Read Romans 11

Read Romans 11, the Church (the elect) and Israel are two separate entities. As Christians, we are told not to consider ourselves too hightly because we are the branches of the olive tree (Israel). Israel and the Church are both beloved by the Father. Israel is blind at this time till the fulness of the Gentiles be brought into the body of the elect (which is neither Jew nor Gentile)and both will be delivered. Also Paul says that the new covenant can in no way annul God's covenant with Abraham which continues unto this day. Paul himself was an Israelite... Let's agree to disagree. Ron Paul for President 2012! We can both agree on that.

The Remnant of Israel - God's Sovereign Choice

There is a great danger, when once we have adhered to one particular school of thought or adopted one particular system of theology, of reading the Bible in the light of that school or system and finding its distinctive features in what we read.

A second and perhaps even greater danger is that of accepting a theory about the pattern of divine revelation without even recognizing that it is a theory, or without looking at other theories to see which theory fits the data best.

Hermeneutics by Henry A. Virkler

http://www.amazon.com/Hermeneutics-Principles-Processes-Bibl...

It is necessary to closely study Romans 9-11 without any preconceived ideas in order see what the role of the people of Israel have under the New Testament.

"For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children." Romans 9:6-7

"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved" Romans 9:27

"As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news! But not all the Israelites accepted the good news.'" Romans 10:15-16

"And what was God's answer to him? (Elijah) 'I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.' So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." Romans 11:4-5

"Israel has experience a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved as it is written." Romans 11:25-26

What does "all Israel" mean? I see only 3 possible answers:

1. All Israel is all Jewish people as a race

2. All Israel is all Jew and Gentile believers who have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior (Messiah)

3. All Israel is all descendants of Israel from Christ's first coming until his second coming who accept Christ as Messiah and are therefore part of the Remnant.

From the context of Romans 9-11, I believe the 3rd answer would be the best choice. Choosing the 1st answer can only be done if you have a preconceived idea that God has separate plans for 'Israel' and the 'Church'. But consider that the first believers in Christ, i.e. His disciples were Jews. The prophecies and promises that Christ fulfilled with His death and resurrection applied to His Bride which is the Church. I don't see that those early Jewish converts to Christ are any different than Gentile converts to Christ.

"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say 'and to seeds,' meaning many people, but 'and to your seed,' meaning one person, who is Christ." Galatians 3:16

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:28-29

Ron Paul 2012 - Restoring the Founding Fathers American Dream

Jews & Gentiles

The Word has three distinct categories of people. Jews (or more accurately Judeans), Gentiles (all other nations), and the CHURCH OF GOD (born again believers, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles). The return of Jesus Christ FOR his church occurs before the time of the tribulation. See this clearly in Thessalonians. We (the church) are SAVED from the wrath to come. Jesus spoke to Isreal and Isreal only when discussing the end times. We are not to weary ourselves with when that might be. Only God knows. We are to live our lives to the best of our abilities in honoring God - no matter the circumstance or the signs of the times. There is an opportunity now to re-establish a free country in our day and time. That's a noble and worthy goal in and of itself. No?

StretchMac

The problem is that these

The problem is that these views are keeping Ron Paul for President 2012 from happening.

I agree with Zachnap Ω™ ;)

and I agree to disagree. After all, this site is about getting Ron Paul elected :)

Worth keeping in mind that

Worth keeping in mind that the Arabs (Palestinians) are also the "seed of Abraham".

Edit to add: The points made around the 34 minute mark, & just after, are very fascinating, re Biblical passage as far as God promising the nation of Israel

Working for US policy in the mideast that serves AMERICA's interests http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/

I am a Christian Zionist and I support Ron Paul

http://settlersofsamaria.org/vote-ron-paul-free-israel/ I am a Christian Zionist who supports the Ron Paul position of a sovereign Israel making her own decisions as to when and how to attack her enemies. God promised Abraham that he would bless those that blessed him (through his seed) and curse those that curse him, and in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed. You can trace that cursing from Pharoh's Egypt thru Hitler's Germany. I just don't believe we bless Israel by killing her enemies.The above link is written by a Jewish Settler in Samaria who gives an eloquent defense of the Ron Paul Position. It is also beautifully written.

as a Christian non-Zionist, I respect your beliefs . . .

and your arguments, but I am going to use you as the symbolic *you* of Christian Zionism--

to ask a question which I have wanted earnestly to ask a self-proclaimed Christian Zionist for a very long time--

So, as a moral supporter of Jews Against Zionism who also believe, as do I, that Jews really were at least the major (though there may have been others) target of Nazi extermination--

have you, as a Christian Zionist, wondered about other people(s) who have been decimated and gone through holocausts or 'cursings' as thoroughly as have the "Jews"--(a combination of people of various nationalities but who practiced Judaism and claimed to be Jews)?

For example, as many Irish died of starvation, brutally, horrifically, at the 'hands' of the British Empire a mere 100 years before the Nazi Holocaust--

most British subjects were entirely unsympathetic, and many Americans despised the Irish who managed to survive to make it to America. How do you, as a Christian Zionist account for this?

There are legends (I won't call them more than that) that one of the daughters of King Zedekiah survived and fled, taking Jeremiah, to Egypt with her and then, with or without Jeremiah (who purportedly died in Egypt, but I don't claim to know)--

went to Spain, stayed there briefly and then went with her courtiers/servants, etc.--

to Ireland and began a Hebrew society there--

The Irish were not just persecuted in the early to mid 1800s; they were treated like slaves and outcasts by the British for over 700 years!!!

But . . . how much military defense money is spent on 'protecting' Ireland--

The point I am trying to make is that NObody really knows who is or is not a genuine Jewish article!!! *We* can all guess--

and our guesses may or may not be correct.

The children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt, correct? We all (and believe me I've studied it extensively) know the story well--

well, then WHY have black Africans spent so many centuries in slavery and many continue this day to be the object of derision (thinking about what a young man on another thread on DP today said when he posted the youtube of blocks long lines of ostensibly black Americans standing in line just to get an application for a job--and how this same young man reminded *us* that Gingrich told these people to "get a job" (*taking time out for an angry moment*)--)

and then black Africans who have been Jews for centuries . . . and have been (WSJ article in the 90s made these claims) tested and shown to be linked to the Levites . . .--

go to Israel and are treated like second-class citizens.

More and more I ask myself, "WHO are the Jews? WHERE are the Jews? What about other races that have been decimated and enslaved?"--

Those of us who have seen through Roe versus Wade and Planned Parenthood for decades KNOW (and the cat has been let out of the proverbial bag by officials of Planned Parenthood on this) that black Africans were targeted for decimation by Planned Parenthood.

Getting rid of races isn't a new idea, and it was a threat that faced both ancient Jews and Jews who lived in Europe in the mid-1900s--

so . . . why do only the Jews in the 'modern' state of Israel 'count'?

Sephardic (probably more closely linked to ancient Jews) Jews are decreasing in population until most of the Jews in Israel (though certainly not all) look just like "Gentile" Europeans--

they look like *us*, so they deserve *our* sympathy, but who ARE many of them?

And, what about the Muslims (and Christians) among the Arabic nations? Many of them are a least partly Jewish from the many returns of Jews to the "Holy Land" throughout the ages and the many who never left. Why do they not count? Who are the "enemies" of the Jews, and won't God have had a good laugh on *us* if *we* find out that many of the people *we* looked down upon were just as much His people as . . . those within the borders of the modern state of Israel?

Just asking--curious to read your answer.

I admire Rafi, too (settlersofsamaria), and I especially admire the MANY Jews around the world (including in Israel) for whom Israel is bigger than Israel and . . . not confined to the state of Israel. They are numerous, and their numbers are growing.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Sorry Broke My Promise

I said I wouldn't post again and Conan Doyle went on to write The Return of Sherlock Holmes. I didn't realize you had asked me a question. I'm posting an article about God's unconditional promise for Israel's survival as a distinct people http://noreligionjustjesus.blogspot.com/2006/08/has-god-fors...

1) You haven't seen any Hittites around lately have you?
2) Do God's oaths and promises mean anything?

have you seen this . . .

http://mikopeled.wordpress.com/category/the-generals-son-by-...

I believe that conversion is a very real thing, so truly converted Jews who do not have a Hebrew ancestry are Jews, if they follow the religion of Judaism.

Where do people draw a line about what constitutes a 'distinct' people--

labels are often used to confuse people.

I think that people such as Miko Peled are as distinct for having the courage and integrity to speak up and say what they believe.

He is a Jew, the son of a prominent, early Israeli general.

By the way, I do believe that God is 'gathering' His people, including the children of Israel (identified more by their hearts than by genes or labels)--

and will gather them to some sort of 'homeland', could be a variety of 'homelands'--

I don't believe that God intends (nor do I believe He ever intended, based upon His not allowing David to build the temple, because of his bloody past) that the lands to which He will gather them will be soaked in the blood of those who have been vanquished merely for their skin color or their labels and occupied by the conquerors whose only 'virtue' is their ability to make war--

but that is my opinion--

I did look at the blog you linked--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

the Hittites . . .

were from an area north of Israel (anciently)--

very close to the same area from which the Khazar Jews originally came--

:)

'distinctive' people--

the Pharisees were distinctly Jewish, but Jesus reminded them that He could raise up descendants unto Abraham from the stones.
Perhaps . . . He has. :) All that desert sand; all those Arabs who have Jewish blood.
and . . . well, yes, the African Jews and Jews around the world who aren't in Israel and aren't necessarily sympathetic to Zionism are also distinctive--

Yes, God's promises mean everything, but HE is the only One who knows who His 'chosen' people are--

The fact is that Zionism collectivizes people, and there are plenty of Israelis who are not happy with the way the Israeli government is managing things--

there are many Israelis, especially the youth, who are questioning, much as youth are questioning here in America now--and many following RP.

They (the Jews, even in Israel) are NOT a unified group; they are not a collective, and Zionism implies collectivization--which . . .

I don't know how long you've been on DP; I've only been a member for a little over 2 years, though I lurked for years, and my name says it--I voted for RP in 1988--

I'm the anti-collectivism geek on here--

:)

pax . . .

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Religion of Abraham.

AJ, can you or your zionist teachers inform us - what was the religion of Abraham ? Was he jew or christian ? Remember his seed includes Ismael, the first born.

Najam, I keep wondering HOW . . .

you manage to come up with such brilliant questions--

I won't go to that other forum (I'm not so computer clever), but you've asked a profound question which will keep my old grey cells working for a while--

I do not forget Ishmael (sp?); I see you spell it "Ismael"--

the story has saddened me since I was a child; God certainly loved Ishmael--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Salam or Shalom ?

1988vote, thank you for your attention, please excuse my delayed response. Yes, the question about Abraham's religion remained un'answered by Action-jack - below.
Re - the spelling of Ismael, - you have raised an important question too, and its clarification will also give hint about the religion.

You will find modern Hebrews assert the 'Sh' in place of S, to make themselves 'distinct' from other semitic /sister languages, e.g. arabic, aramaic, amharic, syriac, etc.
Take for instance the name of the city Jeru'Salem, is pronounced as Yeru'Shalem in present day hebrew.
Or their greeting 'Shalom', instead of the original "Salam".

Religion is no different from Noah's time, only historical narrations are added, because, as Natural Law & human needs remain the same, so does religion. Later versions only complimented the earlier one.
The Maseah said - "I have not come to change the Law, but to confirm - - - - - ".

Another Forum

How about we take this over to World Net Daily? Joseph Farah has an article about the coming problems for Christians and the motivation for getting prepared? This is my last post on this forum. As stated many times, this is a place where we support Ron Paul.

Abraham's Religion? How About Relationship?

Abraham was a friend of God and Isaac was the son of promise.
The handmaid's son was not the son of promise. If you remember, God told Abraham to slay his son, his only son, Isaac (Genesis 22:2. Abraham was the father of the faithful
who believed in the seed promise. "And Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness" Remember Abraham saw his son's day( a quote from Jesus in red letters in my Zionist Bible).

Israel is no longer the blood

Israel is no longer the blood descendants of Abraham. Israel are those who are spiritual decedents. Israel is the church, not a physical piece of land.

The old Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD making the way for the New Jerusalem which is in Heaven. Read Revelations - it tells the whole story. Out with the old, in with the new.