275 votes

THE WAR: I think I am going to be sick

http://youtu.be/RiNmerP32xk

All I can say is I thank you people here on the Daily Paul. When I came here over 4 years ago, it was because of the Income Tax issue. I found it hard to swallow all this talk about liberty and decriminalization of drugs at the federal level and opposition to the war.

Being a Neocon Evangelical Pastor, I questioned if I even belonged here at all. I stuck around because I thought I was going to be able to educate some of you to reality like a good Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin disciple.

What happened I did not expect ... you guys opened my eyes. I won't drone on all that long about these issues but the war ... THE WAR. How could I have been so blind? I did not and could not understand your hatred for THIS WAR. But now I understand.

This WAR is pure EVIL !!! Even until recently I used to think if Dr. Paul could just not speak so loudly about this war maybe he could win. I COULD NOT BE ANY MORE WRONG.

I as a Pastor need to speak against this evil ... it is my duty ... and I am calling out the clergy in this nation to speak up and out against this wickedness. I just watched this video which would explain why so many of our kids are choosing to end their lives then live with what they have witnessed. This is such a national tragedy ... a grievous sin

A MUST WATCH:

"On the Dark Side in Al Doura - A Soldier in the Shadows"
http://www.youtube.com/wa...

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The story

I've seen bodies burned alive, heads decapitated, hands feet noses ears and eyes cut off, and I could have take pictures of any of that and put it with any information that I wanted to. I do know for a fact that you can not leave a base in Iraq unless you're in a 3 vehicle convoy, so for him to say that an officer was stupid enough to drive into the heart of Sadar city with a PFC is a bold faced lie. I know that you get purple hearts for getting injured so no heroic action there, half the people in my unit got them. Every soldier in Iraq gets at least 3 medals just for going there and the higher your rank the higher the medal. He wasn't an army ranger because he wasn't in a ranger unit. He may have went to the school but I didn't see a ranger tab on his uniform. I'm just saying that his story sounds like a lot of stories I've heard from low ranking soldiers that try to sound like hero's to their families. Every military base that we have has an Inspector General with an open door policy. And every soldier knows this. He could have went to the IG anytime he felt like it and he would have been removed from the unit immediately. He had best friends that were keeping him alive by sneaking him food and the one that stopped him from killing himself. They would have been witnesses in the investigation and removed from the unit as well. His story holds no water and it amazes me how little people know about the military. Its not like the movies I promise.

Thanks for that, I suspected

Thanks for that, I suspected something about the Ranger thing, not seeing a tab and him being with cavalry unit. But as a Marine veteran I don't know much how the Army works. Knowing Army veterans, I don't believe it works the way he and his father are alleging.

MARINES!!

My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment haha.. Yeah I don't know a whole lot about you guys either other than you're pretty hardcore. I saw one guy post that he had a ranger tab so maybe he did go to the school I didn't see the tab so I don't know but no he wasn't a ranger. I promise I'm not trying to start an argument on here. I just don't want people buying into this just because they saw it in a video. I know how the military works and for me to believe that every NCO in his company was corrupt, well I just can't believe that. You see officers go corrupt sometimes and you see a lot of discipline problems with the lower enlisted and every now and then you hear about an NCO that went nuts but NCO's are the backbone of the military and they are outstanding leaders. I just can't believe that especially after hearing all of the super secret squirrel stuff he was talking about being a PFC. I'm not sure how long he was in before he went to Iraq but you're usually a PFC by the time you finish ranger school because of the time it takes to complete it. So I imagine that he had some discipline problems or he probably would have been a corporal or sergeant. Anyway I'm just trying to say that I know there is another side to this story that we aren't hearing.

If you're talking about "de

If you're talking about "de opresso liber's" comment above, he said he didn't watch the video so I don't know what he is going off of. I watched and looked for the tab after they said he went to Ranger school and I didn't see it either, maybe we missed it. Then, just to make sure I asked a friend of mine who is a Ranger and he said that given Needham's rank and unit it was doubtful.
I wasn't particularly hardcore, 4341 Combat Correspondent, just like Joker in FMJ. But, a good thing about that job is I saw an awful lot of different things, virtually every aspect of the Corps while I was in (2000-2004 active). And from a perspective that is unique in that I often saw the difference between what was really going on and what was released and in what manner. Consequently, my BS meter is pretty accurate when it comes to this sort of thing.
This stuff is not like the movies, there is no rogue Col. Kurtz, or First Sergeant SkinFace, Private Santiago doesn't have to trade his knowledge of an illegal fenceline shooting to get transferred away from Col. Jessup. When things like this do happen, it doesn't have to go too far up the chain before someone CYAs and makes sure those responsible get burned at the lowest possible rank and the doors to making that happen are always open. I suspect Needham was a troubled man who became a troubled soldier and I don't doubt he was damaged, but after watching his whole victim routine in the questioning room I think something was going to get this kid someday, anyway. There is, after all, a pretty straight line that can be drawn from crazy initiation stories and a ranger tab on your liberty uniform, to tales of a frag mission with Lieutenant Umtyfratz, to the zombie First Sergeant, to somehow not being able to successfully shoot yourself in the head with your own pistol, to claiming PTSD made you kill your girlfriend. Combat veterans are often more stable than the general population and beware the wingnut who uses this "you weren't there, you don't know" routine as license to act crazy.
As for acornyms, the one I always heard and remembered, to the point it was almost a mantra, was U Signed the Muthaf***** Contract. Oh, and Ain't Ready for Marines Yet :)

CYAs

LOL marines are crazy.. Love the job and the response..

RON PAUL 2012!!!

This was RIVETING~~~and extremely sad & worrisome

We are VERY WORRIED about what is going on overseas, and all these tours of duty. From this in depth example of the mistreatment by our own Military, the details are so explicit and incriminating that I shudder at the thought of what's going on right now.

I was right. I believed all along that our boys were over there "TRAPPED" & unable to communicate the truth, unable to email, unable to even talk on the phone to relatives here. It is beyond the horrors that I envisioned, and I hope to God we can stop these "wars".

These aren't "wars". These are "atrocities" committed by our own MILITARY GENERALS who allow this kind of crap to go on!

Did you notice this information from the video?

“U.S. Army Ranger John Needham, who was awarded two purple hearts and three medals for heroism..."

Perspective

The video would be alot better, if it was balanced by an investigation of how TYPICAL this type of thing is. That is why I think that drow 13F has a point. He was there, and didn't see this. It is propaganda, even if true, because no perspective is provided.

I agree with you on some points...

But to me, it sounds like he had a First Sergeant who had lost his mind. You can not get around the pictures. Now if he was suicidal then it was his Commanders responsibility to command refer him to Mental Hygiene.

I think there was a break down of discipline in the Unit, hell probably the Battalion, so it is hard to make up my mind on this just quite yet.

I would choose to give this soldier the benefit of the doubt and the father is the kind of Dad every kid should be so proud to have.

Now I was stationed at Ft. Carson many years ago, fortunately I never ran into anything like this. I was stationed in the 172nd Chemical Company in the 4th ID but we were not at war during that time. My question would be about his "Top" cutting the brains out of people's heads. That needs to be investigated.

I hope the military did not have this boy killed, it sounds like some of the stuff he was saying was pretty intense. Enough that his CG decided to get him down the road. Wow, now you non military people realize why many of us soldiers understand why a break down of discipline in a Unit is a bad thing. That is how you get soldiers pissing on dead bodies. It starts there but ends up with a First Sergeant cutting a mans skull open to get his brains out of his head.

I will say another prayer for our soldiers tonight and hope many of you will do the same. We are embarked on a noble cause here. We are not just trying to get Dr. Paul elected as the next President but we are trying to save many of our young soldiers from ending up like this.

The pictures?

The pictures can be of any thing over there. You will see so many dead bodies over there. I've had to pick up bodies and put them in gallon baggies. I've cleaned up little kids when a school was hit by a car bomb. You find them on the side of the road. Who knows who killed those people or why. They could have been insurgents or victims of insurgents there is know way to know. The one strapped to the hood of the humvee looked like he was being evacuated. We even evacuated our casualties on roofs or hoods of vehicles when we had to.

And the video of soldiers pissing on dead bodies is another one that I don't agree with. I watched the video and its not American soldiers I know because 3 of the guys you could plainly see there body armor. And the armor that they're wearing isn't the mollie system with the ceramic plates that our military issues. It was the dragon scale type made out of titanium scales. They were either contractors American or not I don't know or they were Australians because they are the only groups that I saw with that type of body armor in Iraq.

I don't mean to be argumentative but this isn't anti war propaganda this is anti military propaganda and even though we do have some crooked soldiers and some crooked leaders. I know that as a whole they are very good and all units above a squad size element have high standards and ethics.

Soldier on Ole boy.

I always give the soldier the benefit of the doubt. It sounds like you were not spared either of many of the things that we all don't talk about when we come back.

Soldier on soldier...

I believe you drow 13f

You were there. I wish that I cold still edit my post below now.

Miltarized society

If you saw the place in 2006 it was a totally different place. Imagine if you were going to the grocery store right up the road from your house and you had check points set up all along the way with huge concrete barricades every where. Convoys of military vehicles patrolling your neighborhood, soldiers kicking in doors down the street because one of your neighbors is a suspect. it is terrible what we did to that place

coming to America

... soon. Very soon... The Pentagon refers to these as "laboratories"...

Yes

I was there in 2003 when we did a lot of good, and I was there in 2006 when the Iraqis were ready for us to leave. The first time was great because we got rid of Sadam and he was very evil to his people, but I don't think we should have went in the first place because it was all based on lies but atleast we did free the people from him. But in 2006 the whole country was different. The people began to realize that their neighborhoods and schools and markets were being attacked because we were there. Any town we meddled in became a battleground and civilians were targeted by the insurgents if they were friendly to us. So I'm glad the war is over I wish all the wars were over so we could focus on our broken society right here at home but I couldn't watch this video and not say something because I know how the army works and to think that his entire unit were all murdering raping thugs and a PFC was the only one to stand up say something I just can't believe especially when he talks about cage fighting initiation and secret missions.. He's dramatic is all I can say

The CIA put Sadam in power, then the US armed him against Iran.

You're right you should never have had to go there.If the US government would trade with people and not intervene in other sovereign countries political and civil matters, innocent and brave American Soldiers won't be manipulated into going to a pointless war to resolve problems created by the US government. America is a powerful nation, built on the blood of brave men and women fighting to up hold the constitution and the crucial Bill of Rights.

Who is going to protect the people of America, when the elitist scunbags with their lust for blood money armed with the NDAA and Patriot act decide dissenting Americans pose a threat to their precious agenda?

Thank you

for providing some perspective. I hope that the DP leaves up the beautiful letter from the pastor, but takes down the video.

Whoa Nelly, you lost me on that one...

How can you think we did them good when we killed over a million of them to liberate them from a man who may have been a dictator, but he was their Dictator, not ours.

No, there was no good that came from going into that Country. You as a soldier know this. Now maybe I am sensitive about children and women being killed so I will respectfully disagree with you there.

We had no right to go in to that Country and we need to get the Hell out right now. I mean embassy and all needs to be closed down and we should apologize to that Country for the cold blooded murder that was perpetrated on that Country.

Our brave men who went,

went because they trusted that our leadership was being honest about the mission. It was an act of bravery and self sacrifice. I stand against the idea of pre-emptive strike. Iraq never made sense, but let's please keep perspective. Lets be equally mad and angry about our troops being lied to and used, let's be angry because they sacrificed themselves with the intention of protecting us. (and that is the most noble thing a person can do-to lay down their life for another)

I agree

Look I was 22 years old and I bought into the whole 9-11 go kill all the terrorist just like most of the country did. I went into Iraq thinking I was going to find nukes and chemical weapons and never found one. But I try to justify my ignorance and wasted year of my life as saying that at least we got Sadam out of power. The guy was a mad man. The people absolutely loved us when we ran sadam off. And if we would have left right then we would have had a victory but we decided to stay and put a government in place that is doomed to fail, and yes we have killed may innocent people and the insurgents I don't even think were bad because when I look at it from their perspective. I would do everything in my power to kill soldiers that came to this country to push their influence on us and destroy our cities and kill our people. So I am very sorry for my ignorance and my last tour there convinced me to become a missionary pilot (which I'm currently in school for) so that I can go back to the middle east and help people by building schools, churches, feeding the hungry and helping anyway I can. I do regret the war but I will never regret the military because they are my family and I have never had a closer family.

I need to know

If our military was like this during WWII. Time has a way of surfacing truth, so how come there aren't stories like this from that era? Did the acceptance of the idea of the pre-emptive strike destroy our souls? Are truly defensesive, and justified, wars inherently different? Don't take this the wrong way, its just that, in history you hear of plundering like this as just a fact of life in wars. I always marvelled at how you never heard of stories like this from American troops before.

I did a short stint in a church in Glen Alden PA

Back in Bible college days ... There was a ww2 vet there who was in the battle of the bulge. He said that they would let the guys get out of the burning tanks without shooting them.

He also later became a POW and said he was treated with some respect.

This was just this guys story ...

My fathers family suffered here ... and it was a horrible betrayal ... War is hell and I guess there are bad people and good people who get pulled into this racket.

"The British arrived early in the morning at 7:30. Colonel Malcolm, commander of the Lienz garrison, informed Ataman Polunin of his orders, which were to immediately evacuate all Soviet citizens to Judenburg, where they would be handed over to the Soviet military. A congregation of five thousand, three hundred and seventeen individuals had assembled. Men and cadets stood on the outer perimeter, circling themselves around the praying women, children, elderly and teenagers to form a passive, defensive human barrier.

To counter this resistance Major Davis ordered the praying to cease.

His order was ignored, and the praying continued. Then he ordered his troops to evacuate the camp by force. The soldiers of the Argylls and Sutherland attacked the gatherers with a brutal determination to achieve their task.

The Cossacks, men, women and children of all ages were beaten with riot batons and rifle butts. They were shot at and run over with vehicles. The wounded were slung like a sack of potatoes into the back of the waiting trucks.

In the resulting mass panic, women and children were trampled to death. Some Cossacks chose to commit suicide before they would accept deportation to the Soviet Union; women jumped into the torrential river Drau still holding their children. Some even succeeded in escaping.

When this mass evacuation procedure was complete, four thousand, four hundred and twenty-five victims had been transported to Judenburg. A sorrowful cloud hung over the Peggetz undertaking. Operation Keelhaul had claimed its first victims.

Days later, further downstream, the river began to relinquish the bloated bodies of the drowned martyrs. Soldiers used long poles to fish out the corpses and pile them up on the banks. More discoveries of suicides, either by hanging or bullet, were found in nearby woods and buildings, adding to the number of fatalities.

Between the 31st of May, and the 15th of June 1945, twenty thousand, one hundred and thirty-seven victims were handed over to the Soviet authorities in Judenburg. This includes the seven hundred and thirty- four who were transported in ambulances.

Two thousand eight hundred and six were classified ‘unaccounted for.’

The majority of the abandoned Cossack officers, after being found guilty of treason to a country they felt no longer was their country were executed. The rest of the survivors were sent off to a Gulag, a Soviet slave labour camp."

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In WWII there was an enemy.

In WWII there was an enemy.

In Vietnam it did

Any Vietnam vets here? When I was watching this I was thinking about the people I know and the people I have talked to who were in Vietnam. Same thing different era. Its interesting that the people who get us into these wars and support these wars never went themselves?

I flew hundreds of Medevac missions

In Iraq. I will never forget the things I saw. The kids, oh the kids. Until you've loaded litters built for a full size man carrying two or three tiny toddlers each, you haven't seen the hell that is war. There is a whole lost generation in Iraq. I thank God for giving me the strength to do my job and never falter. I saw men more courageous than me come unglued, I guess what comforted me was no matter what I witnessed I could tell myself my job as a medevac crewman was to make things a little bit better.

God Bless You

,

times

two..

I work with troops everyday. Words cannot express how grateful I am for our troops. They truly represent the best of our country.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Greatfull? Not so greatfull to those who sent them there

I don't think our troops should be subject to this abuse.

This HuffPost article

This HuffPost article contains another video on the very same topic:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/14/john-needham-iraq-v...

you must be close to God

because only someone who has kept there heart open can overcome the conditioning your generation has faced. The older generations that wake up have a duty to pioneer their revelations

thank you for sharing

A true flower can not blossom without sunlight and a true man can not live without love.