14 votes

Rand Paul Disappoints

"But just because Rand is good on some issues of the warfare-police state should not give him a free pass from scrutiny. Case in point: Rand Paul voted for the Kirk-Menendez amendment [Iran sanctions] on December 1, 2011. Equally disappointing is that his vote flew straight under the radar. Whether unnoticed or ignored, antiwar vigilantes failed on this one."

http://comehomeamerica.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/rand-paul-di...

(After his speech at the Alfred Town Hall,1/28/2011, in Saco, Maine I said to Ron Paul that some people were very disturbed about Rand's Iran sanctions vote. He replied that he "was also disturbed" by it.)

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Pragmatic = pander and

Pragmatic = pander and compromise = the exact problem in politics = why we are in a mess

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

True, but so is the following...

Rock Solid Principles = No Compromise = More of the Same = Tyranny + War

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

Better, but here's a follow up.

Rock Solid Principles = No Compromise = More of the Same = Tyranny + War = financial collapse = Anarchy = chaos = order restored based on Rock Solid Principles

Freedom is the ability to do what you want to do.
Liberty is the ability to do what you ought to do.
"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Corinthians 3:17

I'm dissappointed that Ron

is letting the media push him around in debates. What's your point.

Yeah, the media is awful to

Yeah, the media is awful to Ron...I think a lot of the more PC sounding stuff Rand says on TV is just because he's always trying to think a step ahead for how the media will spin it. I think he's doing a good job so far counterbalancing some of the media negativity. I wouldn't be surprised if Ron is probably encouraging him from the behind the scenes. Ron takes most of the heat, and probably like any father, he'd rather take the slings and arrows himself.

You always need to ask yourself the following question when...

...posting these sort of topics: "Compared to what?". Do you have a Ron Paul clone that you thinks would do a better job? I have yet to find one so I'll stick with Rand...even knowing that he errs on rare occasions.

Ron tends to vote directly and uncompromisingly from his principles, whereas Rand tends to be more pragmatic, while remaining very close to his principles (I've met both men). Is Rand a carbon copy of Ron...no, but he's close. Is he a neocon, a democrat, or any other form of undemocratic fascist? No. Therefore, I'd take a Senate full of Rand Paul's any day over what we have.

In light of these reasons I find the forum topic name to be detestable...you ought to change it to something respectable.

Cuimhnigh orm, a Dhia, le haghaidh maith.

My own topic name would be something other...

...than the original article and imo more accurate and thus respectable but it would be stronger. Something along the lines of 'betrayal' (to 'non-intervention', morality, the Iranian people, etc.).

As was pointed out by another commenter he also did not object to the Senate's 'no-fly' zone unanimous consent, the end result of which was the outright murder of the Libya leader (after his public sodomizing) and now the Iran sanctions. These certainly qualify in my book for the 'neo-con' label.

This has all been previously addressed!

For example here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/160971/lawrence-odonnell-attacks-ra...

Read the comments....

The DP has a keyword search option that will lead you to clarification of these issues...don't believe the misinformation...

Cuimhnigh orm, a Dhia, le haghaidh maith.

Thanks, how the LIbya vote was pushed through...

...was addressed and absolve apparently the entire senate of responsibility. Did Rand Paul make any comments criticizing the vote or the no-fly zone?

Here's a thread that addresses that exactly...

http://www.dailypaul.com/161163/how-the-senate-was-bait-and-...

Cuimhnigh orm, a Dhia, le haghaidh maith.

The title's fine.

It's ok to be disappointed sometimes. I'm sure I disappointed my parents a fair few times, doesn't mean they stopped loving me. Rand disappointed me on this Iran sanction vote. He's made me proud on NDAA, SOPA, (un)Patriot(ic) Act, Fed audit, TSA, Dept. of Energy.....

General statements are inappropriate...

...because he also impresses. Your comment that he may disappoint "sometimes" is very different than just "disappoints". For example: "basketball sucks" is very different than saying "basketball sometimes sucks". There is a world of difference between these two statements.

This forum topic disappoints.

Cuimhnigh orm, a Dhia, le haghaidh maith.

Ron Paul

is a once in a lifetime principled hero. He does no deals nor compromises.

I am sure Rand will defend America and do his best, but he does not have the same mindset. Rand will still be a vigilant defender of liberty and do what he can in the way HE thinks is best. I am sure he has an argument for how he voted. He does strike me as a man who thinks things through before a vote.
The apple does not fall far from its tree.

I like Rand, I really do.

I like Rand, I really do. However, I disagree with his position on the Iran sanctions. Also, in his response to the SOTU last night, Rand said he opposes the fact Obama rejected Keystone XL. The approval of Keysone XL would have allowed the government to use eminent domain to confiscate private property in favor of TransCanada, and would have also not produced much full time/long term employment opportunities.

well a middle ground position could be taken on that,,

that the government shouldn't restrict the pipeline, and that no emiment domain shoudl be utilized

Yep!

You can build your pipeline...we(the Gov't) aren't going to help you acquire the land though.

Rand is NO Ron BUT I would trust him over anyone else in senate

He is the man right now AND can be an amazing politician who can continue his fathers work. He might go about it a different way though after seeing his father fight for over 30 years. You never repeat past mistakes and who knows maybe they KNOW how to make things happen for his son IF we can't this go around.

http://shelfsufficient.com - My site on getting my little family prepped for whatever might come our way.

http://growing-elite-marijuana.com - My site on growing marijuana

Take a deep breath people...

So Rand's not Ron. We've established that. Would you have rather had Trey Grayson voting on NDAA or SOPA or a FED audit? I am disappointed about his Iran sanction vote. Sure. I was completely satisfied however with his TSA Blitzer interview. Some of you may have forgotten that he said he'd prefer a private company to handle airport security in that interview. Did he outright say 'end the TSA'? No. Unlike Ron, Rand sugar coats the medicine for mass consumption. I prefer Ron's bluntness and boldness- which hasn't been politically expedient(it's taken Ron thirty years to get this far), but I can understand Rand trying a different approach. Do I agree with Rand 100 percent? No. I don't even agree with Ron 100 percent. I would prefer Kucinich over a GOP establishment character, but I certainly don't agree with Kucinich on a lot of issues. The key here is honesty and character. I think Rand has both. I'm not an absolutist. Ron's not an absolutist. So why should you be?

Yes, but ...

"(it's taken Ron thirty years to get this far)"...Yes, but the movement has exploded in less than 5 years due entirely to Ron's consistency (and, yes, being an 'absolutist' on key issues)on domestic and foreign policy.

If you're expecting perfection

..you will have a long and disappointing life. That's all I'm saying.

No, not expecting perfection...

...just sticking to the core key principle of non-intervention.

The liberty movement is

The liberty movement is bigger than Rand.. I'll remember that when they try and use Rand's future in the GOP against us in return for our support.. which they will. And no, I still won't vote for Romeny, Gingrich etc. should they be the nominee.

That being said, thank you Rand for working against the NDAA.

If Ron were younger

... he would become president in 2016 or 2020 without compromising one inch on his 100% devotion to the Constitution, free markets, and non-intervention. Why? Because people are waking up - thanks largely the Internet's breakup of the monopolistic controlled media. Rand could also follow that path, if he wishes. If he doesn't maybe someone else will.

Exactly.....

....The only reason I support Ron Paul 100% is because of his twin pillars of domestic and foreign policy. Without both he would not have gathered the growing support and neither will any other candidate in the future, including Rand.

Rand has to compromise

to be king of the Hill.

Ron never compromised and never won allies on the Hill.

You can't have freedom in one big hill. Freedom comes in a diversity of little hills. That's why freedom's hope lies at the state and local level.

Forget D.C. Get active locally! Become a precinct leader.

i also didn't like what he said about TSA

while ron wants to end it. rand wants to amend it so that we don't secondary screen people on a white list.

i couldn't believe my ears when he said that.

Just because he said that

doesn't mean that he doesn't also want to abolish it. Sometimes you have to win the battles that are easy first. In the project management world, we call this 'low hanging fruit.' So maybe repealing the TSA isn't an achievable goal with the current congress and administration, but changing the rules for the screenings might be. I for one will take what we can get right now and keep on fighting for the rest.

maybe he wants to be President

Right now roughly 13% of republican voters support Ron Paul's ideas nationwide, Rand Paul probably thinks that he can get a lot more support, in 2016, by compromising. He's playing the game, he will leave it to others to spread the liberty message, he's all about winning just like what he did in Kentucky.

If I can get 90% of Ron Paul

If I can get 90% of Ron Paul with 4x the electiblity - that is a compromise I can comfortably live with.

Ron is my all-time favorite and is a hero, but Rand has already accomplished more in his short career. The best way to reform the system and advance liberty is to win elections.

That is the problem...

Rand did win an election and then voted for Iran sanctions and did not object to the Libya invasion.