Should Ron Paul supporters hold the GOP hostage?
Submitted by objectivefreedom on Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:51I think it is fair to state that without Ron Paul's supporters voting "Republican" in November, Obama cannot be displaced from office, regardless of who the GOP nominee is. I also believe that voters who identify themselves as conservative Republicans but may be weary of Ron Paul would still vote for Ron Paul if he were the nominee (I mean, come on... nearly 60 million Americans voted for the McCain-Palin ticket in 2008.)
In yesterday's (January 26) debate in Florida, Ron Paul was given the opportunity to explain why he could defeat Obama over his GOP rivals. I was disappointed that he did not answer the question from a strategic perspective. Instead, he mentioned spreading the message of Liberty which, although genuine, was a wasted answer to indecisive voters in my honest opinion. I was hoping that Dr. Paul would mention that he out-performed his rivals in the caucus / primaries with the 18-30 year-old voters and also remind the audience that McCain performed poorly with this age group, which helped Obama win the election.
(Note: I think it's important to emphasize Republican weaknesses rather than Democrat strengths... he could instead emphasize that Obama performed great among young voters as opposed to saying that McCain performed poorly, but since Paul also performs great among young voters, older conservatives may wrongly reach the conclusion that Ron Paul is a leftist/socialist which is why he resonates with young people. Those gullible to Santorum's dishonest arguments may already believe this.)
I was hoping Ron Paul would also state that his supporters are loyal, and that if he does not win the nomination, there is no guarantee that his voters would support Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum.
... this brings me to my point. Should Ron Paul supporters hold the GOP hostage and publicly pledge to abstain from the 2012 election if Ron Paul is not the GOP nominee? No write-in, no support for Obama, no support for Gary Johnson. Just "sit-in" and not participate altogether. Such a move would be somewhat antithetical of Dr. Paul's supporters (myself included) as well as difficult to accomplish since we are decentralized individuals with no interest in telling each other what we should or should not do. Also, it would be a dangerous move that may ultimately backfire... but if it came down to the wire where Dr. Paul absolutely had to win states X,Y and Z or else he would not be able to garner enough delegates to secure the nomination, something drastic may need to be done (by us supporters, not his campaign... obviously his campaign would have no part in this).
If the message was carefully articulated, heard, and understood by likely-voters, it would send a resounding message that they really have only two choices: Obama or Paul.
Personally, I am torn, because even if it was effective, the principles are wrong; it would psychologically bully anti-Obama voters to support someone they otherwise would not support. If effective, people would be voting for Paul for the wrong reasons. Then again, some people will just vote for the "lesser of two evils" or vote for whoever the media chooses for them, so isn't that voting for the wrong reasons too? Furthermore, voting (in theory) is a treasured right and a powerful weapon against government... why would we want to disenfranchise ourselves or strip our own power? Isn't that what the government wants? Anyway you put it, I do not think it would be effective anyway because the MSM and other candidates would spin this pledge or plainly censor it altogether.
Anyway... Is this blackmail? Is this ethical? Is there an exception to the rule that "ends do not justify the means"? What if that "end" is Liberty? Would Ron Paul frown upon this? What do you think?
GOP
There is no GOP it was sold to the highest bidders years and years ago. What we need to continue to do is build a new GOP. One that is awake and has a brain. No one can stop an idea whose time has come.
Un-register en masse within one week after the convention:
http://www.dailypaul.com/212686/join-gop-unregistration-bomb...
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
hold GOP hostage ?
Well, look, it's the natural dynamic of how the chess game will proceed anyway. It's not a moral dilemma at all...
You see, Step 1 Ron Paul gets support and some delegates.
Step 2 he either wins the nomination or doesn't.
Step 3 if no nomination he can jump ship and go 3rd party.
Step 4 the GOP can beg him not to do that and offer the nomination to keep him from running off with the independents.
It's that simple. Both sides know this. That's why media talking heads continue to get orders from up top that they ask him again and again, "Will you run 3rd party?" They want to know now.
Until recently
I agreed with you. I have now 'seen the light' as it were. I now think our best opportunity, given our delegate strategy ( that appears to be working FYI!) that we can change the party from within.
We could strong arm the GOP - but it's risky. I think what we're doing is much more effective, and will lead Paul to the GOP nomination. A lot of us think - as the Good Dr. believes - that the GOP has strayed and lost sight of what it once stood for. This is our time - our chance - our opportunity - to change it.
And change it we will!
I say YES
http://www.facebook.com/ToTheEstablishment
All - I've started a Facebook page. It's a message saying that everyone that "likes" this page will write in Ron Paul on the ballot if he's not chosen as the Republican candidate. It will threaten the Republican establishment by taking the vote from them. I won't vote for Romney or any of the others because they and Obama are all the same. This country needs Ron Paul and this is but one way to tell them we are dead serious.
No - Finish them
We should not hold them hostage. We should finish them.
They are dying anyway. Look at their turnouts.
YES
And is it possible to write a comment more than 10 words long without getting a 504 Gateway Time-out??? This is incredibly frustrating
Fist of Freedom blog
And put a Gun to their head.
Country before Party. How can anybody still feel loyalty to the Party? What have they done for you lately? If Ron Paul doesn't win, does it really matter who does? Is Obama any different from Romney or Gingrich? Blackmail the GOP. SIgn this petition saying you will write RP in and asking the RNC for support. https://www.change.org/petitions/chairman-republican-nationa...
I couldn't agree more
I absolutely agree and I have signed that petition. The mainstream Republican leadership is infested with traitors who must be extirpated. Speaking of "loyalty to party" under these circumstances is the most absurd, sad self-delusion imaginable. The Republican Party must be bludgeoned - bludgeoned - into restoring its former loyalty to the Republic.
Yes, we should ask all RP supporters to withhold their vote from a non-Paul nominee. But beyond that, I would advise that we not ask them to vote a particular way. Whether they want to abstain, write in Ron Paul or even vote for Obama, that is a secondary matter and I wouldn't want to fragment our power further by unnecessarily pressuring people and having it backfire.
Please check out my blog Fist of Freedom. I have requested feedback at this thread.
Fist of Freedom blog
Yes
Hold them hostage by voting RP as a write-in if he is not nominated. If you agree, sign this petition
https://www.change.org/petitions/chairman-republican-nationa...
And here's another petition ...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/message-to-the-GOP/
Turn up the heat! www.thepetitionsite.com/1/message-to-the-GOP/
On facebook: www.facebook.com/MessageToGOP
Consolidate the signatures!
We need to close these other petitions if possible, and thereby consolidate all of the signatures on one petition.
This one seems to have the most..
https://www.change.org/petitions/chairman-republican-nationa...
..though it needs many, many more!
The act of voting
is the quintessential form of giving consent to be governed. I do not give my consent to the filthy, corrupt, bloodthirsty, power hungry DC machine.
I will only vote for Ron Paul. Period.
No hostages need be taken.....if everyone made it clear that they are pro-liberty/pro-constitution the republican party can choose:
1.)a pro-liberty platform
2.)to lose to Obama
I suspect they'd much rather have Obama win. What's the point of selling your soul to banksters and defense contractors if you then go out and adopt a pro-liberty stance on the issues? The GOP is all about power, money and sex. (same as democrats)
I do not give my consent to scoundrels such as those who lead the United State. Screw them. They will never get my vote.
Are you talking about the GOP that......
Gave us McCain in 2008;
Marginalized Ron Paul supporters in 2008 AND 2010;
Continued the assault on our Constitution and rights since 2003;
Shut US out of national, and state delegate representation;
Continues to discredit and belittle Dr. Paul's message;
Is pushing hard to give us Obama-lite Romney or CFR Newt;
HELL YES!! Hang their hides on the wall!
Give us clear vision, that we may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything.
~ Peter Marshall, US Senate Chaplain 1947
Screw the GOP...
We won't be allowed to hold them hostage. Just like every legislative act of treason they commit against the American people (even when 90% against such measures), in final toll, the Republican party leadership will stab us in the back when it counts.
Any concession the GOP gives to Ron Paul or his supporters will be a mere act of theatre. Sadly, that is not only for supporters of Ron Paul. For example, the GOP leadership CLEARLY helped design the debt-limit increase compromise last fall in a way to ensure that the system will continue on in a similar manner for the foreseeable future. Are Limbaugh, Levin, et-al. chastising the GOP for their legislative deceit? They will always opt for theatre until the sheeple prove that they can see through the deception. The GOP is on the same team as the Democrat leadership, as so many have pointed out. The question is, (if Ron Paul should fail): Will we just leave the field of battle in defeat once and for all, as disenfranchised voters?
Visit http://www.ronpaul2012podcast.com/ for all recent Ron Paul interviews, speeches, debates, forums, panels, press conferences, news coverage, and Texas Straight Talk updates!
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, while war is the terrorism of the rich
A resounding YES!
Hold them hostage and turn them upside down!
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that the GOP & DNC are essentially the same party. It's the party of the status quo. A cursory look at the last 40 years of history should be sufficient proof. A vote for Romney is a vote for Obama. Same with any establishment candidate either party puts forth.
If it comes down to the convention and it's brokered. I would suggest the delegates do everything they can to get Ron Paul nominated. No bargaining, no deals, no false promises, just Ron Paul or nobody.
If RP does not get the nomination, then, I can only hope he will run 3rd party. I've had enough of the tomfoolery the status quo has been shoving down our throats. My two cents.
www.twatm.com
Here it is...go FIND a straight party GOP'er...
...who says...
"I like Romney..."
"I like Gingrich..."
"I like Santorum..."
...and DO NOT ask them why! DO NOT compare and contrast Ron Paul's positions with them, DO NOT try to reason with them, DO NOT bring up the Fed or the gold standard, or try to persuade them to come to Dr. Paul's side on foreign policy...
Simply say; "if you want Obama, and his administration, OUT OF POWER next January; I hope you understand that will NOT be possible without Ron Paul supporters(who are Democrats, Independents, and REAL conservative Republicans) VOTING for your establishment candidate!"
Tell them - "we won't vote straight party EVER AGAIN - we know this country is in trouble, and most politicians are self-serving; and we have had ENOUGH!"
Further - "the PEACEFUL revolution happening in this country is simply one whereas a sizable percentage of concerned Americans intend to vote for individual character and trustworthiness - NOT the lesser of two evils"
It's GAME OVER GOP - you've LOST!!! The only hope this Republic has is that loyal Republicans realize that this party(despite its rhetoric) has done nothing but GROW GOVERNMENT for the past generation; and I think they know we are insolvent because of it!
Obama or Paul - that's the ONLY two choices America has right now - END OF DISCUSSION!
The deliberate Marxist tanking of this economy through political cronyism and moral compromise, in pursuit of the love of money carrot-and-stick approach(Federal Reserve bubble)cost me and my family a successful budding career that I loved! Ron Paul 2012
Yes, Yes! Hold them hostage
Everyday I send a twitter to Mitt Romney and the GOP and several other Republicans and head of the RNC and say ,"You KNOW, over 60% of the Paul supporters won't vote for you/Romney--don't you?" I think it is going to be a very rowdy convention if Paul isn't the nominee.
I think we should form a new
I think we should form a new party called the American Revolution Party (Nicknamed 76ers)and nominate Ron Paul for president and get him on the ballot in all 50 states.
"no guarantee that his voters will support G., R., or S.
There IS a guarantee that I won't support Romney, Gingrich or gopneoconbrandX.
NO ONE BUT PAUL BOMB FEBRUARY 14, 2012
or
http://www.rjharris2012.com
ROMNEY-NEVER
In the year 2012, absolutely no one but:
http://i.imgur.com/TyW3y.jpg
I am.
The lesser of two evils is no longer an option for me.
|^^^^^^^^^^^\||____ Sac, CA
| RON PAUL 2012 |||""'|""\___,
| _____________ l||__|__|__|); The Revolution Continues!!
|(@)@)"""""""**|(@)(@)**|(@)
Try this I did
I sent an email to the GOP and asked for info. I asked them how they were going to replace my vote if Ron Paul did not get the nominations.
Just send to info@gop.com
Might want to include your state.
Please Share Their Response, If Any
And I'll do the same. Thanks.
My e-mail to them, at the address above:
GOP,
How do you plan to replace my vote if you fail to nominate Ron Paul?
Do you understand that even if Dr. Paul were--hypothetically--to endorse Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, or Rick Santorum, his supporters would not vote for any of them. We do not follow Dr. Paul blindly. If he abandons the very ideas that have caused us to support him, he will not follow his endorsement to the voting booth.
So I ask, what do you plan to do? You can either nominate Dr. Paul (and, in a brokered convention, which is inevitable, you will have the power to do so), or you can ensure another four years of President Obama.
You say defeating Barrack Obama is your #1 priority.
Prove it!
Regards.
P.S. Dr. Paul will pull from: all Republicans, all independents, civil liberties-minded Democrats, Democrats disaffected with Obama's failed promises overseas, fiscally conservative Democrats (they do exist).
The other candidates will pull from: Republicans and only the most conservative of independents.
So who is most electable?
Also Dr. Paul can take Obama to task for his transgressions on civil liberties and on military adventurism. The other candidates can't because they don't differ from Obama in these regards.
So who is most electable?
Dr. Paul is a much better debater than the annointed Mitt Romney, whom Obama will excoriate in debates.
So who is most electable?
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none.--Thomas Jefferson
GOP "Response" -- Guess It's Time To Call Again -- 202 863 8820
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Commerce with all nations, alliance with none.--Thomas Jefferson
Sure we should
Personally I am tried of the GOP, Establishment and the MSM telling me who I should vote for. I have been called names for supporting RP. I have stood by and watched as people call RP a nut and a cook. If RP does not get the nomination then I am done. I will sit out the general election. Republicans best realize this before it is to late. The Main Stream Media will not even mention RP when the question comes up "who has the best chance of beating Obama" even though the Polls show that RP would have the best chance.
The only reason they treat us
The only reason they treat us with such disdain is because we have them by the nose hairs.
Should we hold it hostage or just push it off a cliff?
I think that's the question.
The GOP Is Holding Us Hostage
I think Dr. Paul is holding the running 3rd party card close to his chest for a reason. I don't know his exact strategy, but I think he's got one and I trust him.
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none.--Thomas Jefferson
And They Say Our Actions Threaten To Give Obama Re-Election
when it is theirs that do so.
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none.--Thomas Jefferson
Absolutely. If they want to
Absolutely. If they want to hold peace and freedom hostage, we will hold their electability.