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Evangelicals, Ron Paul, and War

This is a terrific piece that could be used to try to convert Evangelicals who vote for war over other values.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2012/01/20/evang...

Is supporting war more important for evangelicals than their social values? Isn’t Ron Paul a social conservative? He opposes abortion, gay marriage and promiscuous sex, he has never been divorced and certainly supports family values, but he believes in limited government. Two of his brothers are ministers. Why then are evangelical leaders now opting for Santorum, and before him Gingrich? The one big area of disagreement with Ron Paul is war; foreign wars and the domestic one against drugs. For this they oppose him. Santorum supports unending war in Afghanistan, backing Israel without limit and a new war against Iran.

Earlier there was a major far leftist candidate who supported all the issues that evangelicals oppose, and was a vocal proponent for expanding Israeli settlements on the West Bank and promoting the war on Iraq. He was overjoyed when open homosexuality became allowed in the military, he supports abortion, gay marriage and the leftist agenda for big, intrusive government; power to labor unions as well as expanded, unconstitutional police powers within the U.S. Evangelicals adore him and went all out to support him 2006, when he lost his primary race and ran as an independent for the Senate. He is Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut.

All this shows how evangelical leaders put support for wars ahead of their social values. Their support includes every new law giving Washington ever greater police powers over American citizens, such as the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act and the recent National Defense Authorization Act which tear asunder much of the Bill of Rights. Most also supported torture of prisoners of war (with the notable exception of Chuck Colson of Prison Fellowship). All this comes with their “social values.”

They loved George Bush. They were major supporters of the two wars against Iraq and the occupation of Afghanistan. Fear and ignorance of the outside world joins together with a belief that God uniquely favors America. Mostly poorer Southerners they also have strong affinity for the American military and its industrial complex.

In addition, author Chris Hedges has written about how they are joined by many Northern blue collar families hurting from new technology, globalization, and poor schools in seeing government as out to undermine their communities and social values. Their solace is to hope for Armageddon.

I know many of their leaders from the Reagan era when they joined in supporting his anti-communism, indeed in making his electoral victories possible. While the older ones consider my views against empire and for peace in the Middle East anathema, I find many younger ones much more receptive. Pollster John Zogby also notes that there is a strong divide on issues between evangelicals over 40 and younger ones. Christian economist Gary North wrote some years ago that they numbered about 20 million. He told me also that younger evangelicals were not so enthused with end of the world dreams as their elders. If you think this view excessive see this video of Tom Delay hoping for the end times and others saying that the Anti-Christ is a leader who seeks peace in the Middle East.

This is the dark side to their religious world view. Their fantasy is often sung to uplifting gospel music of a soon-to-come Paradise. Its concomitant message (not openly discussed) is that God will then (brutally) kill the entire human race except for Christians (for many meaning “born again” Christians). The Left Behind book series dwells on how God will eviscerate, torture and kill all non-Christians. Why so many of them dwell on this is not clear. Perhaps it gives meaning to their lives. Or instilling fear is a way to keep them in line under their preachers’ domination. In any case they are cleverly used by the Israeli lobby, imperial neoconservatives and (more profitably) by the military industrial complex.

The Book of Revelation is the integral passion of their foreign policy, their belief that the founding of Israel foretells the imminent Second Coming, conversion or death for Jews and eternal happiness for themselves in Heaven. In their view America, as God’s instrument, should encourage wars and chaos in the Middle East in order to “hurry up” God and His agenda. One of their leaders is John Hagee, founder of Christians United for Israel. Senator Lieberman is a friend and favored speaker at his events. I have described The Strangest Alliance in History about how each side thinks it is using the other for its own ends.

Evangelicals like to quote a biblical text that God favors those who favor the Jews. However, for them they mean only Jews who make wars and contribute to chaos in the Middle East. Jewish peacemakers are cursed in their view. No tears were shed for Yitzak Rabin who negotiated peace with the Arabs until Israeli fanatics killed him. Indeed Pat Robertson said that Rabin was killed because he was trying to thwart God’s plans.

Herein lies their antipathy to Ron Paul, who in all other respects is a family values conservative. Indeed, most of them are Baptists who used to look upon Catholics with suspicion. Today they would prefer Senator Santorum or Newt Gingrich, both Catholics, to Ron Paul, who is Baptist. Santorum is no libertarian believer in limited government (he would use government to enforce his social values) and urges absolute support for Israel and the military industrial complex. These evangelicals don’t want peace because it would mean postponing Armageddon. That’s why their leaders oppose Ron Paul.

Jon Basil Utley is Associate Publisher of The American Conservative

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This series (see below) is AMAZING!

I have been wanting to compile this kind of information in support of Ron Paul targeting "Christians". So, when I found and watched this series I was BLOWN AWAY!!! This young man does a FANTASTIC job of point by point establishing that Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate that you can say his policies and leadership would be Biblical.

WORTH THE WATCH!!

Send and implore friends and family to watch. It WILL convert Bible-believers!!

http://www.dailypaul.com/197841/the-bible-and-ron-paul-video...

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"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18

Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html

There are many Christians that support DR Paul

Maybe we should be asking our Pastors to allow us to speak to the congregations about the good Doctor.

These two articles should be

These two articles should be read by all those who profess to be Christians. I think it's very sad that many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are pro-war and yet many of these same people are pro-life.

Booing the Golden Rule
http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/booing-the-golden-rule

Are Evangelical Christians Warmongers?
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=3971

I don't see this as effective for evangelicals

There is no real intellectual or biblical attempt to show evangelicals why their view on Israel and war is incorrect. Just to say that they hold a position, and that position is incorrect, is certainly not a way to change someone's mind.

I think you are right

But it might help people who create the political narratives to be more honest about what we are facing.

I created a video

that addresses the many Evangelicals who choose war over peace, and include Martin Luther King, Pope Benedict, and Ronald Reagan who all support Ron Paul's "Christian Just War Theory" point of view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-aFBX96dZI

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Good job!

Will forward!

When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

"Why so many dwell on this is not clear".

Here is the reason. Hell.

The belief in a pagan Hell is the ROOT of all this evil. This false belief corrupts and pollutes all those it touches.

Everyone is made in the image of God. The image of God that many evangelicals have is of a God that will show no mercy & will throw the majority of humanity into literal fire for eternity.
This is THEIR God, the god of the 5%, ....while the rest of the 95% suffers in hell forever.

Most christians will *say* that Jesus is love, they will *say* He is the saviour of the whole world, and yet in the very next breath they will tell you that the majority of the world will go to hell. So, if one has this image of God as being a vengeful, hate-filled, bloodthirsty diety, it is only reasonable for them to see War as ' the will of God'....truly they are modern day Crusaders.

May the ax be laid to the root of the tree....so that all those bound by the 'hell mentality' be set free to see THE TRUTH....the glorious Truth named Jesus....God in the flesh....who came to show what love looks like, sounds like, and IS. The truth is that not one will be lost, all have been reconciled through Jesus to the Father....all will be saved....this is the GOOD NEWS!

Peace to you.

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

I don't want to...

... argue with you, because I'm not qualified, but please explain the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Jesus seems to establish a clear separation (a gulf that cannot be bridged) between the departed ones, whatever you want to call the two places is irrelevant.

Plano TX

Thank you Sleuth51 for asking the question...

This story is a parable. In order for a parable to have strength it must have some basis in reality. So, in the parable of Lazarus & the rich man if there is no such thing as Hades, or if there is no sense of suffering/punishment in Hades then the application of the parable fails. In this parable Lazarus is said to be in the 'bosom of Abraham'. This reference to Abraham's bosom represented a position of favor and acceptance in the Kingdom of God ( Gal.3:29;Matt.8:11). In the parable the rich man asks Lazarus to come & cool his tongue with some water. The rich man was a bad man and was being tormented by the hell he had created for himself.

When the rich man asked for Lazarus to cross, Abraham said, " Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed; no one can cross it". Abraham could not cross the gulf. It was a fixed gulf to HIM. Abraham could not get across to him!
The Scriptures teach that Abraham could not cross that abyss, nor could Lazarus, BUT THE CHRIST CROSSED THAT ABYSS! There is the difference! Abraham could not BRIDGE that gulf but Christ could....and DID. Christ is THE BRIDGE, His salvation bridged it!
Now, at the time when Jesus told this parable it had not been bridged yet, but after He was
crucified and AROSE from the dead with the KEYS OF HELL & DEATH He made a way for His banished to return! He went to Hades and took captivity captive! ( Eph. 4:8-9; 1 Peter 3: 18-22). To Christ Jesus belongs all the praise & glory!

Yes! It was bridged by Jesus Christ and there is no gulf that he cannot bridge! He has bridged ALL the gulf's ( Gal.3:28). NOTHING can separate a person from His love, life can't and death can't, angel's can't and demons can't ...nothing! (Romans8:38-39).
Yes, it is Christ that has bridged this gulf between Heaven & earth and between earth & Hell...for it is written, " That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things IN HEAVEN, and IN EARTH, and things UNDER THE EARTH; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. (Phil.2:10-11).

Peace to you!

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Thanks for the reply...

... you are not going to get a lot of love from some evangelicals, but I'm open to reflect on anything without emotion or built in bias. I guess interpretation becomes an issue and that is why I said, I'm not qualified.

So, you don't think Adolf and Joseph are sitting in some very warm and dark corner of Hades, pulling out their hair and gnashing their teeth as they contemplate their dastardly deeds here on earth? And that the likes of Bush and Cheney will not be joining them one day as the blood of a million innocent Iraqis cries to God for justice? I don't know, but I wouldn't mind if it were so.

Plano TX

I appreciate your openness Sleuth51, thank you

The scriptures teach that it is to the glory of Kings to search out a matter ...and it blesses me to hear that you are searching these things out...that you are being a nobel BEREAN to see if these things be so within the scriptures. (Prov.25:2; Acts 17:11).

As to your question regarding Adolph, Joseph, Bush & Cheney....

I want to make it very clear that I believe in the justice of God, I believe that all of the judgements of God are corrective in nature, so that the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS and are always purposed in love until the goal of victory is attained ( Isaiah 26:9 ; Matt.12:20).
The words 'eternity/eternal' have been mistranslated by several popular versions of the Bible....these words when properly translated are understood to mean in the greek 'aion' &
in the Hebrew 'olam'. The greek word 'aion' denotes 'period of time, an age, ages'...the english word 'eon' comes from the greek 'aion'. Both 'aion' & 'olam' refer to a a period of time that has an end.
So with that understanding, one can see that all the scriptures that have the word 'aion' are refering to a period of time that will eventually come to an end.

I don't know how many ages it will take for the corrective judgements of God to have their desired effect within the lives of Adolph & Joseph.....the scriptures teach that a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. The scriptures teach that 'as in adam all die, so too in Christ all shall be made alive; each man in his own order' ( 1 Cor.15:22-23). I don't know when the order of people like Hitler & Stalin will come....but it will come....for every knee will bow & tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

It is my belief that as the scriptures teach that good shall overcome evil, I would not be surprised to learn that the very Jews that were exterminated in the holocaust are the very ones that are ministering forgiveness to Hitler now....
Of course many evangelicals will be quick to say 'well the jews are in hell so this can't happen'.
Lord have mercy, is all I can say to that kind of confusion! ( for all those who will start gnashing their teeth at this, let it be understood that Jesus loves those who practice Judaism & will make Himself known to them as their Messiah and they too will enter Abraham's bosom). He loves the Muslims too...and the Hindus....ALL THE WORLD....for He came to save the WHOLE WORLD.

As far as Bush & Cheney are concerned ( for they are the walking dead, living on the earth)....hell is a state of being... and I have no idea to what (kind of hell) they are already experiencing...their very lives are hell, as they sleep, as they rise and walk throughout their days, life is a constant torment....Cheney is experiencing HEART DISEASE ....a very real metaphor being manifested
within his very own body & soul. Only God knows what Bush is going through right now...he will
stand and give an account for the lives that have been lost, destroyed, wounded under His
administration.
And yet the amazing GRACE is that there is hope for Bush & Cheney too...for Christ died for them too...to set them free from sin & death, from ignorance & deceit....so yes, there is good news for
them too!

Thanks again for your question, sleuth51.
Peace & Grace to you!

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

you my friend

have not and will not rightly divide the word of God
your casual dismissal of the truth is readily apparent

How so?

This time use scripture when making your argument. Be prepared, because I have done alot of study on this topic and spent much time in prayer on it as well.

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Cor.6 9-10 / rev21 7-8 / rev20 11-15

care to expound

Both

Cor.6:9-10 & Rev.21:7-8 are speaking to the PEOPLE OF THE LORD.....not to the world!

Go back and look at the beginning of chapter 6 in Corinthians, Paul is speaking to THE BRETHREN, not the world. Many believers in Christ are *saved* but have not ENTERED into the Kingdom of God. There is a BIG difference between being saved and actually entering the Kingdom OF God, the Kingdom represents the RULE of God, the dominion of God WITHIN the believer's life.

Those who have entered the Kingdom of God are those who have REPENTED (greek- METANOIA-- to change the mind, take ANOTHER MIND...the mind of Christ). Jesus said and still says REPENT! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand ( Mark1:15). Jesus commands all those who confess His name to pick up THEIR cross and follow Him --His example--of DYING to self....dying to this world system, dying to the flesh, and the devil. Only by His grace given can anyone be empowered to die to self...it is all HIS WORK.

This leads to your third scripture reference....Rev.20:11-15---- In verse 12 John saw THE DEAD...the dead are all those who have not been quickened by the SPIRIT...the dead were judged
by the deeds of their life.

Verse 13 says that DEATH & HELL ( HADES) surrendered the dead & the dead were tried
(judged) by what they had done during their earthly sojourn....notice that these dead are not burning
in some LITERAL FIRE in a pagan hell ( this is the teaching of the BABYLONIAN church system of man---Babylon means 'confused').

Verse 14 says that DEATH AND HELL were thrown into the 'Lake of Fire'...now, what is this Lake
of Fire?
How can Hell be thrown into the Lake of Fire?

So, gptnomoney, I have answered you....now I will await your reply as to how Hell can be thrown
into the Lake of fire....the majority of Christendom teaches that Hell & Fire are synonymous? So what say you?

Peace to you.

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

I.m going to send this...

... to 50 pastors (picked at random from Google search)in Nevada, Colorado, Michigan, Texas, Minnesota and Virginia. If 600 of us do this then 30,000 pastors per state would get this message, if there is no overlap, or 15,000 if there is a 50% overlap.

Plano TX

Religious beliefs should be on the table

This article makes a case for why one's specific religious beliefs should be scrutinized. A President has enormous influence, and indeed the ability to foster war or peace. What does Romney believe? What does Santorum believe? What does Gingrich believe?

We know what Paul believes.