Ron Paul's foreign policy a bust?
Submitted by shoover on Thu, 02/02/2012 - 00:03We all know and understand Dr. Paul's foreign policy and their are many people that say that is the only thing they don't like about him. Could it be that people are getting confused between what non intervention means versus Isolationism ? I can see somewhat where people would say they are almost the same with out looking up the definition of each. Maybe Ron Paul should call his foreign policy, (Strategic independence) this has the same definition as non interventionism, and their would be less confusion and it sounds more patriotic.
maybe some one could pass this by Doug Wead if you feel it's a worthy idea.
















Must approach from strength of Economics
Everyone agrees Ron Paul is right on economics so supporters (and the campaign) need to show how his economics prove his foreign policy.
Inflation of the money supply increases the need for Foreign Aid to gain control of foreign countries for cheap manufacturing and resources which sometimes leads to domestic revolts that are often dubbed terrorists in need of extra judicial handling by the US Military.
How to Help Rand End the TSA - TSA Agents pose potential public health threat. Support Dr. Burzynski's Cancer Cure
No, not a bust at all.
A majority of the American people agree with Ron's foreign policy. They're just misled by the minority of neocons who misrepresent Paul's foreign policy and use mindless fear-mongering.
Most Americans are latent Paulites, IMO. If only they were presented with the truth they'd realize it.
People get confused
when the media misrepresents. Sorta like the title of this post...
Liberty = Responsibility
Yes, people are indeed
Yes, people are indeed confused about what isolationism is, in part thanks to all the negative media coverage about Paul using that specific term. When people think of isolationism, they think of North Korea, not countries like Canada or Switzerland. That doesn't paint a pretty picture. They get a mental image of us closing up our borders and sealing ourselves off from the world.
People who manage to get past all that, understand about the concept of blow-back and non preemptive war. But have trouble getting past the deep emotional response to those arguments (9/11 being our "fault" etc), fear of terrorists, patriotic feelings about protecting Israel, etc. It's a tough nut to crack.
But there's still the economic portion to the argument. This one is ironically the easiest and most straightforward reason for conservatives to understand why we need a new foreign policy...but unfortunately many people have a mental block in their minds, due to the other gut emotional responses. Also denial about why our leaders have let it get this bad in the first place. Heck, it took me getting a job in the defense industry and reading about the history of defense contractors before I was really ready to face all the deep economics implications. Our foreign policy is our economic policy. It hit me like a ton of bricks when I finally figured that one out. Defense jobs are another form of economic welfare to the state. That was when everything I previously thought was 'conservative' about neocons came tumbling down like a house of cards.
I think that RP's foreign
I think that RP's foreign policy views are a huge part of what makes people love him.
It is the one way he differs most strongly from the establishment.
Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:
Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...
Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a
Please remember
there is a long way to go and it is never a good idea to use up all your ammunition at the beginning. Timing is everything.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
Minds will change
when individuals realise their government is lying to them.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
The "foreign policy" issue is NOT a bust. HOWEVER,
the campaign's handling of it was. I have been saying since 2008 that the campaign should make foreign policy the HIGHEST priority, because it is Ron Paul's most controversial stance among Republican voters. I was SO frustrated when I saw ad after clever ad parodying a movie preview but no substantive ads on foreign policy or even Paul surrogates such as Michael Scheuer, Judge Napolitano, John Stossel, Colonel Douglas MacGregor, etc. promoting the sanity of Ron Paul's foreign policy. HOWEVER, the superPAC ads in Florida and Ron Paul's concession speech last night in Nevada convince me that is about to change.
The biggest damage Santorum has done to us so far is his questioning of Dr. Paul's ability to get anything through Congress. Dr. Paul wasn't given a chance to respond at the debate and the campaign has, so far, failed to respond to Santorum. This needs to be a HIGH priority item.
The problem is RP talks about cutting $1 Trillion bringing back
the troops.
But he doesn't say what he will spend money on or what his defense plan is.
This makes it very easy to paint him as a looney nutjob, ie...
"He wants to cut the military's funding and scrap everything we have!"
See my sig's link for more details/explanation.
================================
Graduate from keyboard warrior and sign-waver with ROBERT'S RULES: http://www.dailypaul.com/142513/roberts-rules-video-library
Americans obviously don't
Americans obviously don't want another 9/11 to happen but unfortunately they haven't figured out that us bombing and putting sanctions on the people of the middle east is what causes them to come and cause 9/11's to us.
Iran has never attacked another country in over 200 years. Bp finds oil in 1908 in Iran, mossadeq wants a larger percent of the profits 50/50 split instead of the original agreement. So we help overthrow him and install the shah who is brutal to his people. He starts the SAVIK basically a gestapo that starts to kill off all non religious enemies of state, religious ones are exiled and all the while we are viewed by the country of Iran as the Shah's ally we helped him get there. In the late 70's a revolution starts to revolt against the shah but the secular are to weak as the shah had already killed off all of their leaders But the religious groups who rebelled as well were now stronger as their leaders were only exiled like Khomeini who returns in 79. Had we not aided the shah and he killed off his secular opposition likely the khomeini never would of come to power.
After that you have Iran Hostage situation for 444 days into 1980 this was one of the reasons carter was not reelected. One of the members of the students who held the hostages was their current president Ahmadinejad(yep he was one of the hostage takers). Anyways we closed down our embassy after that and have had no direct talks with them since.
In the early 80's we want revenge so we start arming Iraq, Sadam Hussein yep we built him up to go and attack Iran. And a bloody war between Iran and Iraq killing half a million people. It ends in late 1988 with Iran basically holding off the Iraqi invasion. Obviously not long after that Sadam trying to regain his strength needed more oil and invaded Kuwait, oops are plan backfired again imagine that. We have had sanctions on them ever since as well which ends up killing people(hard to give exact figures).
We have messed them over hard and you wonder why they might not like us very well. I am actually surprised they haven't been more hostile to us but a lot of the population actually likes the USA. Not the hard line leadership but still.
I think most people don't know the history and just see Iran not liking us(and the media is all to willing to pump up the hate as it sells stories and there is money to be made by the military industrial complex)it must be because of their religion.
I like the idea of the liberty movement using their own lexicon
"Strategic independence" and "Armed Neutrality" are two terms I saw in this thread that I like.
Another idea to help the sheeple understand, like and promote RP's foreign policy might be to make an explicit promise that for every 2 foreign military bases he closes 1 domestic defense base will be opened (or re-opened). Since teo-con sheeple ate up Herman Cain's 9-9-9 program they might be open to RP's 2 for 1 deal.
Armed Neutrality is an
Armed Neutrality is an appropriate term, we should use it more often since it's a little stronger sounding. That's the term used to describe the foreign policy of Switzerland and Sweden.
Thank you
this is a term I will use in all conversations moving forward.
peAce
Liberty = Responsibility
lost cause
people are effing stupid and are sheep that love being herded to their destruction as long as it means they're in conformity and in the warmth and comfort of the 98 other lemmings with them.
somebody on facebook said that he agrees with RP on everything but can't fathom why he thinks blacks should not be served in restaurants owned by white people... this is the magnitude of utter stupid we're dealing with.
Ron Paul 2012
He needs to better explain:
How Israel is ready and willing to deal with Iran, and all the fallout from other nations, if we would just get out of their way. Ron Paul would. So to those who think his foreign policy is dangerous because of Iran, STOP. This solves the Iran sticking point!
For the life of me...
...I don't understand why Dr. Paul hasn't made some major speech or presentation or video or SOMETHING to provide us with a detailed, compelling picture of what he envisions for a strong national defense. I've heard bits and pieces in interviews and debates...likes submarines, military vs defense spending, closing bases overseas, more bases here...but I haven't heard one grand, cohesive presentation. THIS is what is missing from the campaign. If it had been done already, I think we would probably have won at least one of the contested states so far.
I just don't understand :( ... this is the key for exciting the bulk of the Republican base.
It might be at least in part
It might be at least in part due to a misunderstanding between isolationism and non-interventionism.
But I think the larger problem is that far too many people simply do not understand our Constitution. Most have not read it, including those among us who have taken oaths to it.
I have spoken with police officers and members of the military over the years. Sadly & incorrectly, most of them (in my direct experience) believe that it is the President who decides whether or not we go to war. I've had police officers, after swearing their oaths, tell me they did not study the Constitution during their training and the reason for that is because "it's something you learn while a kid in school." One officer with that answer got confused about the necessity of warrants during one of our conversations.
Ron Paul's foreign policy is the constitutional foreign policy. If more people would just read the Constitution and only a fraction try to actually understand it, Ron Paul's foreign policy would no doubt be in the lead by far.
...
This is specifically why I suggested he should drop the term
non-isolationsim and instead describe his policy as "Armed Neutrality."
It conveys strength AND sanity in two words.
I never heard that term
I never heard that term before, but I really like it.
Thanks. It is the foreign policy of Switzerland and Sweden, and
was also used to form two Leagues of Armed Neutrality amongst some European powers, one during the American War for Independence, and the second during the French Revolution. (a third was proposed during the War of Northern Aggression, but never materialized)
I think it was also the policy of one or two American Presidents in the early 20th century.
It wouldn't matter what you
It wouldn't matter what you called it the prestitutes would find a way to discredit it. The people that get their news from these traitors, as a whole, don't use any kind of critical thinking.
I don't know if it's too late
I don't know if it's too late to do an effective re-branding, but I'll leave that to the campaign. I'll also leave you with this, because you made me think of it: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better...
Not too late at all.
This is only February. There are a whole bunch more states to have primary or caucus. Many people here have given some good changes to make in Dr. Paul's talks to the people. We can be certain that people close to President Paul look at these forums regularly. There are staff meetings every day in some form or another.
fearless brave joyful peaceful loving grateful, compassionate
Thanks
I appreciate that
"Give me liberty or give me death" Patric Henry
Anyone who doesn't get it -
Just needs to watch this in it's ENTIRETY:
You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4a__tcfFug
1:50 in is VERY IMPORTANT --- Directly from the CIA.
Until then - not educated enough to speak.
"Strategic Independence" sounds good. Strategic Diplomacy...
Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
isn't gonna work
video has been deleted over copyright claim.. is there another copy you could direct me to?
http://j.mp/whyPaul <= my RonPaul-promotion site / on twitter: @m_x_t_u
thread : http://www.dailypaul.com/218966/a-little-why-you-should-vote...
Catch 22
Fox News and Hannity Brain washed Republicans don't get it, they see it as weak, but they are the smallest percentage of voters if you can can get out of the primaries when 70%+ of Americans want out of the wars.
Problem is that in the GOP they vote
It's all about fear
It's all about fear, at least that is the impression I get from acquaintances who won't support Dr. Paul on the foreign policy issue. They won't come out and say it in those words, but I'm pretty sure that is what underlies their objections. They say "The Iranian leadership is a bunch of crazy men, they hate us and want to kill us, and we can't be all nicey-nice to them and solve our differences through talking. We're Americans. Tread on us and we'll kick your butt. I double-dare you!" They seem to fear that there is a radical Islamist jihadist hiding under every rock.
For the most part they could care less about the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism. In fact I don't think they want to know that a difference exists. They've just tuned it out.
Ron Paul agrees with your buds
"Tread on Us, and we'll kick your butt"
That is EXACTLY the stance of Ron Paul.
I agree
I agree with your statement and with Dr. Paul's stance. He will follow the Constitution, take it to the Congress for a declaration of war, wage it, win it, and get out.
I think a follow-up question might be, "How should we handle a perceived threat?" as Iran appears to be at this time. My buds would want to send troops and bomb right out of the chute. What I was trying to portray is what appears to me to be a kind of "cowboy" attitude towards foreign countries and war. Dr. Paul has no interest in upholding the military-industrial complex through undeclared wars and saber rattling. He favors diplomacy, leading by example, and the golden rule. Some of my buds think that is nuts. And I believe that fear, coupled with a perhaps unintentional willingness to give up liberties for safety and security, is behind that thinking.