Ron Paul: I Believe In National Sovereignty

This is an excellent interview of Dr. Paul at VDare.com. Check it out!




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I can only agree with

I can only agree with that.
But my larger point is that anti immigrants sentiment is fueled mostly by economic hardship.
I see many legitimate reasons, why this sentiment is valid. However vast majority of anti imigration arguments are just phony and simply untrue. And many of them come from the poor understanding of the economic reality we live in.

H1 - B Visas

One issue that may come back to bite him from this interview is the H1-B visa issue. these are visa issued to people who have a special skill that are in demand in the U.S. and Dr. Paul supports given these Visas, Some argue that these visa's have been used to lower thewages of workers like software engineers, etc. By bringing in workers from overseas instead of paying higher wages to U.S. people.

There is some truth to this, but it results from a misuse of the law. the law states that H1-B visas are issued to individuals only when a suitable , qualified U.S. worker is not available. The problem is that some companies abuse the law. They will write a set of qualifications that is so specific that only the foreign worker will qualify. Some companies higher significant legal talent to make this process easier - it is a very time consuming process, and would not be done to save money UNLESS the company is big enugh to have a legal team on staff to do such things.

If the companies follow the law, the H1-B visa is a good thing for the country, but the law needs to be enforced better.

Very good interview

Nice and meaty article.
Although the website layout looks a bit unsavory (kinda 1990's looking) I found the interview very good and the interviewer delved deeper into the topics* than the usual sites I've read. (*which with RP is always a delight to read)

VDare, Welfare & Racism

Immigration is a personal issue for me. I live in Arizona, do not speak spanish, yet I am married to a Colombian woman and have 3 "biracial" boys - I very much resent that term. It reminds me of Bill Cosby asking 5 year old girl, "your mother is Italian and your dad is Irish? where is the Irish part? ....the little girl pointing to her butt, "mom says I smell like dad".

We have done everything LEGAL from getting the Fiancee visa, to turning over 4 years tax returns, to fillng every form, pay dozens of fees, paying lawyers and swearing and signing that should we divorce, she and any children will not go on the public welfare. Its been a 7 year nightmare. If you don't like the federal government, don't marry a foriegn woman. Imagine the IRS on Steroids, with legions of small men with small men's syndrome and you may get a glimpse at my personal hell with the INS. And it is my hell, as an American, who must beg the Federal Government for PERMISSION. It is not hers. It is more then humiliating to write personal hand written letters (as I have done) asking some faceless govocrat to "please allow grandma" to come see her grandson. So for me, in Arizona, immigration is personal.

Ron's interview is on VDare, on a very "race conscious" website and I am being kind, is troubling. One gets the feeling with VDare that they worry about the white race a little too much. So its sad Ron interviewed there, but hey, he goes on Faux news and Alex Jones, so I guess its alright. But be fully aware that everyone will look to Ron on the racial issue, especially those on VDare (with hope they found a closet racist) and especially Ron enemies on the Left (who will loudly scream RACIST! Indeed, they have on Daily Kos and promptly dismissed him and everything good he has to say--even on the illegal Iraq war).

The interview talks about Ron Paul as possibly getting his objection to the illegal immigration from Milton Friedman's welfare argument. Friedman also made the Welfare Argument against illegal immigration during an ISIL conference in Costa Rica.

As a libertarian, we know that this illegal immigration "problem" as its called, it yet another Government created problem, just like the Drug War, just like the War on Poverty. Welfare benefits can simply be denied, the fact our government does not deny them, is the real problem....besides the welfare benefits in the first place. And as a libertarian, we know the INS should be abolished, just like the IRS, the Dept of Education, the CIA, the Federal Reserve...etc. As a libertarian, we know that when any human being anywhere "crosses" a border, what he or she is crossing is not line on a paper, but the Sovergn legal Juristicitcion of one area vs another. Hence sovergnty is never "threatened". Thus sovergnty is not the real issue with "illegal immigration". As an American if you travel to Spain, break Spains laws, you will be under their juristiction, not the USA's. Same with mexican workers here in the USA. It is our government who is refusing to recognize these human beings. It is our American government's failure to identify who is entering its legal juristiction, and that failure is government's failure, but not the failure of the person leaving one legal juristiction to another.

The Vdare interview links the reader to that ISIL conference in Costa Rica in which Milton makes his welfare-illegals argument. I was there at that conference and I responded to Milton by asking if it was not possible for the federal government to issue a "Blue Card" which did not entitle a Mexican national to American Welfare, but did recognize his/her human freedom to move about the planet, living and working peacefully. Furthermore, American citizens here would also be free to associate freely with who they wished, hire and even marry. Freedom, its a good message, as Dr. Paul likes to say. If Ron Paul's only objection to open immigration is the Welfare issue, perhaps he should look into the libertarian solution called the Blue Card. Milton may not like different visa class, but we have already Fiancee Visas, Student Visas, temporary work visas, Hb-1 Visas, the Green Card and perhaps others I am unaware. Its time to look into the Blue Card visa idea. It should be very easy to obtain, do a background check in the home country, and that is it.

My company here has hired construction workers in the past. Dam good ones too. Honest to a fault. I will hire a man who walks from Guatamala, can build out a stone fireplace and lay all the marble in a 3000 sf house in one day. The talent is there, the work high quality, the lunches short, and unlike american workers, they are not hung over from the night before and show up late, ask me for friday's pay on Wednsday. Yes, I am sure they are "illegal" -- illegal, but dam good, and honest. But now the State of Arizona passed a law against business, my business, and my freedom to hire and fire who I wish. The democratic female governor gleefully signed the bill against businesses. The republicans seemed pleased thinking that they have "stopped the brown tide" and the democrats where delighted to have yet another reason to take my "licence" --my freedom to do business.

A Ron Paul supporter in my meetup group, a union airline mechanic, was delighted with the new Arizona law. He complained, like Ron Paul and Milton Friedman, about the Welfare. When I told him of the simple Blue Card solution, he still was not pleased. Wages would go down in my system he pointed out. He said we want all Americans to belong to belong to the social security American Union, and American businesses must hire Americans only with social security "union" numbers. Funny I said, but wanted to cry. And should this American take his company to Mexico? I said. He did not like that. Perhaps he will wish to limit my freedom to do so. I discussed the issue further, inserting Canada, as opposed to Mexico. That did not bother him "as much".

In the interview with Vdare, Ron Paul was not bothered as much with Canada, as with Mexico. Here is Ron Paul--"I think the racial component and the economic discrepancy south of the border make it much different living in Texas than living in Michigan." What does Ron mean by the racial componet? Why is race a componet?

Well the sad fact is race is driving the "anti-illegal" feelings. Few are willing to say it. Instead they say its the Spanish, why can't they all just speak English? When latinos speak English the issue becomes something else. The bottom line is that this is a nasty racial prejudice that we have going on in this country. Black Americans, the usual whinners about racial prejudice, do not speak up for the "illegals" either. Tisk tisk.

The real issue is freedom, universal Human Freedom for you and me and everyone on this blue planet. When governments can pen us in like so many animals in a zoo, one kind in this country, another kind in that.... we have truly lost our way to paraphrase Ron Paul. We should relax on the immigration issue, suggest we issue a Blue Card to those who wish to enter our country.

There are a Billion Chinese and a Billion Indians. Within 50 years, our influence will have waned across the planet, and we will be following the styles, trend setters and music styles from other lands. But this does not have to be so. There are only 350 million people in the US....and we NEED to open up and involve ourselves wth those in Central and South AMERICA. It is far easier to intergrate our American Capitalist system across the whole of America, than to import it by force of arms in Iraq. I for one believe its time we relax about the "illegal immigration issue" and see it for what it is..... a free human being crossing over from one legal juristiction to another. We cannot nor "close our borders" as if we live in some giant master planned human zoo.

Indeed, if ever the USA becomes a full nazi regime with Marshal Law, it will be you and I, white conservative/libertarian Americans racing South across the Border. Can anyone say, "Hola Amigo?".

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Treg I think you're totaly wrong on the immigration issue

My husband is an immigrant from Chile who got his citizenship, two years ago, and he supports Ron Paul.

Ron Paul wants to promote legal immigration which will make it possible for people from a broader range of countries to come here instead of just south of the boarder. We're talking South America, Asia, Africa -- now that's diversity.

The steady flow of people coming across the boarder is destroying the lives of blue collar Americans, just as sending all the factory jobs to China is destroying middle class American lives, and sending all the IT jobs to India is destroying middle class American lives.

My father is a construction worker and so was my grandpa. We have seen the wages they make plummet. I think all the white collar people who claim blue caller people are too lazy to do the jobs they losing are class snobs.

You buy into all this propaganda being put out by corporations who want cheap labor. You are way too eager to buy into it and sell your fellow Americans down the river.

Our government keeps telling us the economy is so great, but it's only great for the rich. Check out this video where Bernie Sanders rips Greenspan a new one on this issue http://digg.com/business_finance/C_H_A_N_G_E_confronts_Alan_...

ronpaul.meetup.com
ronpaul2008.com

ronpaul.meetup.com
ronpaul2008.com

I salute you Treg. You are

I salute you Treg.
You are saying the truth from personal experience.
I, also, have personal experience. I am Polish. I live in Polish community in Chicago. I know the truth about immigration first hand.
What troubles me is the fact that many people ( even on this blog) loudly critise MSM about unfair treatment for our dear Ron Paul in one sentence, but in the next they repeat the lies about immigrants and general immigration issues, which they have learned from MSM.
Would that be wrong to believe that, if TV lies about one thing, they may also lie about other things too?
Just one example. Illigal immigrants are burden to social security. What a nonsens!!! How so? It is very clear for anyone, who at least one time inquired about social security benefits, that there is no chance you can get even a penny, unless you either a citizen or Green Card holder. And only when you contributed money to the system. And same goes with vast majority of Welfare Benefits, too.
And I can spent next 2 hours exposing the lies about immigrants people hear on tv and read in the newspaper.

Made in America

Thanks..... I think I should have shortened this down to;

A) Crossing from one legal juristiction over to another legal juristiction does not mean Sovereignty is threatened in any way. What threatens sovereignty is one legal juristiction superimpossing its laws over new lands and people, such as Hitler's laws over polland, france, and the Baltic States suffering from the USSR.

B) Americans have the right to hire and fire who they wish, be they American born or not. By "stopping immigration", we in effect take away our very own right to freedom of association, contract & marriage.

C) When it comes to invading your privacy, the INS is as bad as the IRS. When it comes to actual powers over you and other people, the INS certainly beats the IRS. No IRS agent has given American citizens anal probes, though it may feel like it. INS agents have less restriction upon them then your local cop, and even sites on American soil, yet legally gets to claim its some foreign soil whereupon they are not subject to American laws, and you are not allowed to enter the building. If you do enter the building, its without your American Rights as you know them to be.

D) Immigration is a two headed coin of freedom of movement. Just as people are allowed to move freely here inside the USA, we are free to move about freely in other countries. If and when a Military dictatorship takes hold here in the USA, it will be freedom loving Americans like we Paulies who will be racing off to other countries, hopefully with open arms to immigrants. When the "Clinton exit tax" was imposed, taking an additional 20% of your estate before you give up your citizenship, the handwriting has been on the wall: Don't leave, stay here and keep working.

In addition......

E) If welfare was a factual reason for Mexican Immigration, they would move to the most welfare giving states in the Union --Hawaii & New York, and certainly not Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, & Nevada. Instead, illegal migrant patterns reflect the whereabouts of whats left of American's high labor industries. From agriculture to pultry production to construction work, that is where illegals can be found.

F) Should Ron Paul get his wish, and the Income tax is abolished, then there is nothing to worry about with Welfare & immigration. Indeed, I submit we would all experience a huge RUSH of American manufacturing race back to build inside American Again..... "Made in America".... has a nice ring to it.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Treg, Ron Paul is against special interest

Treg, while I can appreciate you wanting to bring your family here, it is a special interest which has what Ron Paul has always fought against. He is for what is good for America.

Supply and demand is what brings value to something: the ultimate law of economics. If everyone is allowed in the US, it is no longer the US as we know it and is unfair to the people that have worked to make this country what it is.. He is in favor of modest, legal immigration as is how we all got here (most). But to let everyone in, which no country does, would substantially lessen the value of living in America. It would change the values that Americans have built over the last 200+ years.

I don't believe Ron Paul ever said that illegal immigration was burdening social security. Rather, he said if we allow the illegals to become legal, they would shortly thereafter get social security to the extreme detriment of the people paying in for years and years. They are a major burden to to this country in many ways, although I can't blame them, nor he, for wanting to be here. They have lowered the value of a day's work that we spent hundreds of years building and they get free medical and schooling which is a major burden on the people that have to pay for it.

And as far as a "rush of American manufacturing," manufacturers will always go to the least expensive way to do so, so if China, India, or many others, are willing to do it for less, that will not be the case. And do we want them if they are paying $7 an hour when it costs $15 to live these days? More people will only bring the pay wage lower. The answer is to remove things like Nafta and not make us compete directly with these other countries. Why would we when the American worker could only lose since we are (were) the richest country in the world?

And as far as going to another country to live if we lose our rights here (and we quickly are), you can only run for so long as this is a global situation. Remember, "they" want to run the world, not just America.

So, I empathize as I'm sure you love your family and there are few prettier women than the Colombians. And I'm sure the INS is unfair as are most or all of our Federal agencies, but you knew the rules going in or should have been aware.

Bob W., Naples, FL

Bob W., Naples, FL

This is my friendly reply, Bob.

I didn't say that RP said anything about Social Security. What I have pointed out is the fact that most people have the opinion of the immigration crafted by MSM lies. I also pointed Social Security lie as an example.
Another lie is the burden on schooling. As you know schools are paid by the local taxes, which are collected mostly from county, city or state sales taxes. Immigrants, even illegal, pay sales taxes whenever their purchase anything, aren't they. By paying them they contribute to the funds, which schools are funded with. Which way then they are the burden to public schooling?
You also said Bob:
"while I can appreciate you wanting to bring your family here, it is a special interest which has what Ron Paul has always fought against. He is for what is good for America."
I think RP would not agree with you on that, because most important to him is the freedom of the individual. I believe he would say, that, if American Citizen wants to bring a foreign wife, it is not a goverment's business, as much as this is not any other American Citizen's business.

If it comes to depressing wages argument against the immigrants, I think the case could be made that people are feeling economic pressure and don't associate it with the real cause which is INFLATION, and are looking for the cause which is more understandable to them, more visible and promoted to them by MSM: immigrants. No time for that argument here.
Same thing goes with health care costs and college costs.
Creation of money out of thin air causes prices to rise. People don't understand it. Don't know who they should blame and immigrants are an easy target. If people would not felt economic difficulties they wouldn't care, and the issue of immigrants would not be on their radar.

Mostly incorrect Mirekchicago

Ron Paul's for the individual, but protecting America as a whole. He is absolutely for protecting our borders. He is absolutely for changing the birth right law. So, as much as he's for the individual, he's for protecting American people. He is for making people responsible. And he knows that marrying out or the country gets very abused frequently. Those that do it, do it with the knowledge that they may not be able to bring those families.

As for school taxes, I pay quite a large portion on my property tax bill for it. So, the sales tax argument will not fly! The same goes for other services. The sales tax, granted, helps but in no way makes up for the massive other strains on the economy.

The powers that be, brush the social security issue regarding amnesty rught under the rug. It's actually the opposite as you are suggesting. Remember, "they" want our borders open. It is Ron Paul that wants to protect our sovereignty. He understands economics like few others.

As for the inflation issue, that's a cop-out. Of course the inflation factor is huge, but illegal immigration only mutiplies the problem.

People are not "targeting" immigrants, just the illegal ones. It is no different if mass amounts of people went to another country, took jobs and lowered their wages. You don't think normal human reaction would be to be infuriated by it? I wouldn't expect anything less and either should you.

Botton line, immigration laws are in place in every country for a reason. We have let it happen in this country for all the wrong reasons.....big business and their cost savings!

It's amazing to me that because we have 12 to 20 million illegals here that that makes it ok in some people's minds....and the illegals. If there were that many murderers or rapists, does that then make it ok due to the sheer numbers doing it?

With all due respect Mirek, you need to do much more research and analyzing of the country's problems and their causes.....and the study of Ron Paul's ideas. Illegal immigration is one of the many, but absolute.

Bob W., Naples, FL

Bob W., Naples, FL

Sorry Bob you need to do

Sorry Bob you need to do much more reaserch. I don't have to , because I live the life of the immigrant and I know many legal and illegal immigrants.
As I stated before. There are many valid reasons why we should act against the immigration the way it is now, however many people follow MSM lead with they argument, which is mostly a bunch of chip shot lies. And I can see you are one of the MSM followers.
Your exmple:
"People are not "targeting" immigrants, just the illegal ones"
"I pay quite a large portion on my property tax bill for it. So, the sales tax argument will not fly"
Another lie.
Can you imagine that there are illegal immigrants, who pay real estate taxes on their homes?
Do you want to know how? Very simply. They own houses.They have mortgages, which they get with their own social security numbers. They have real social security numbers, because they came to this country 15 or 20 years ago and at that time social security number was not a problem. I bet you didn't know that. ( I'm in real estate).
"If there were that many murderers or rapists, does that then make it ok due to the sheer numbers doing it?"
Are you saying that immigrants are comparable with murderers and rapists? You are going very low on this. Another argument fueled by MSM.
Why don't you go even lower in your argument. How about those foreign diseases immigrants bring?
Your opinion is definitely a product of MSM lies.

Perhaps you should vote for McCain, Mirek

I will have to get out a coloring book and crayons to explain this to you Mirek. As for MSM, I believe little they say but you seem to attempt to use their tactics by attempting to convince on: baffle them with bs.

You have not made any valid points as to why we should allow mass immigration and let the illegals that broke the law, stay here. Ron Paul, if you've read anything by him, is vehemently opposed to allowing illegals in and mass immigration. Maybe he should listen to you and change his whole campaign based on your needs.

As for you being a fairly recent immigrant, that's a given and knew before you mentioned it. I'd be willing to bet that you want to bring many family members here and you are frustrated that it hasn't happened. That's what I call special interest and Ron Paul wants nothing to do with it.

As for you being in real estate, I fail to see how that makes you have any special knowledge of these issues. For the record, I have been in real estate for almost 30 yrs. and own my own real estate company.

We have many foreigners that own real estate here and they all pay real estate taxes. The difference is that those people vacation here or rent their property and don't live here illegally sucking up the our money and social services. I don't see where I made any point against the legal immigrants, but you have twisted that like the MSM you mention.

The illegals that have valid soc. sec. numbers have them because Reagan gave them amnesty back in 1986. This is one reason Ron Paul will be a much better President than Reagan, and Reagan was good in many ways. As of a couple of yrs. ago, it is now required that all owning property in the US has a tax id number. It has nothing to do with collecting social security benefits. I fail to see your point regarding illegals and their benefit to us because they have tax id numbers. All that own property pay taxes whether they are taking advantage of American's money or not. I prefer them NOT.

As for the the murderers and rapists, if you understood what I wrote, you would know that illegal is illegal.....period. Those people are here illegally and you are supporting that. Does it make you any less of a criminal when you break one law vs. another? And if many are doing it that makes it ok? I think not and so do most Americans....regardless of what the MSM is saying. But since you mentioned it, there are quite a few murderers and rapists that are here illegally. Maybe when one of your friends or family members gets murdered by one of them, you will change your mind. So happens that I have friends that were killed by illegals. And if you look in our local jails here, there are apparently about 30% or more illegals that are there for various crimes that are costing the American taxpayers a fortune.

I am not anti-immigration and like many of the people from these other countries, but that is not the point. Laws, at least they used to be, are here for the protection of a country's citizens.

Write back when you have a valid argument as you have only tried to discredit me and have given no good reasons why we should just allow anyone to come to America. But don't worry, if we elect any other than Ron Paul, you will get your way.

Bob W., Naples, FL

Bob W., Naples, FL

You don't understand me

You don't understand me Bob.
I don't attempt to make an argument for the illegal immigrants.
I am just fed up with repeated lies about them.
I am not recent immigrant. I am here for 18 years.
You repeating the pattern of any TV brain washed anti immigrant fighter.
They all pull all the phoney arguments and when they can't stand the ground , they retreat to the argument which is 100% valid: Illegals are here illegally!!! That's it. That is enough in itself.
PS.
1."The illegals that have valid soc. sec. numbers have them because Reagan gave them amnesty back in 1986"
Sorry your facts are wrong again. SS#'s were given after that date.
2."I'd be willing to bet that you want to bring many family members here"
I didn't even try.
3."there are quite a few murderers and rapists that are here illegally."
TV brainwash
4."That's what I call special interest and Ron Paul wants nothing to do with it"
Watch this video, perhaps you understand Ron Paul's true stand on immigration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCM_wQy4YVg
5. "Perhaps you should vote for McCain."
Perhaps you should vote for Tancredo, cause my only hero is Ron Paul who deep down got nothing against of any form of immigration as long as the country is truly free and illegal immigration is not forced on it by advancing North American Union.

Yes, Mirek, don't understand you

Then again, I never understand innacuracy. I can only agree with you on the MSM not being true very often, but they are correct some of the time. You automatically suggest they are wrong just because you are an immigrant and can't bring your family here to live. If MSM simply says they are wrong because they are here illegally, how are they wrong? Because you have illegal friends and they are good people?

I never read newspapers and rarely watch the news, so I have come to conclusions on the border and illegal immigration without assistance. Most Americans oppose it for very good reason, so please give them credit for their intelligence of understanding the problem with it.

As for murderers and rapists here illegally, I know this to be fact as I've had personal friends killed by some of them. One would have to be a fool to think that a criminal would not be inticed to come over the border if he is wanted in his home country. Certainly not all that come across are, but there are a lot of them coming here as evidenced by the high percentage of them jailed in the US vs. American citizens.

As for the INS, I am not an expert and am sure since they are a government agency, they certainly mess things up. Like everything else, it is likely about money. But to suggest that everyone should be allowed in the country because you have friends and family that can't get in, is simply special interest and not in the best interest of this country.

If you have any valid information other than the suggestion that all immigrants should be allowed here and the illegal and legal immigrants are being treated unfairly, by all means write. If it's more of your unsubstantiated rhetoric, don't waste my time or the viewers here. If respond, please do it with proper spelling and grammar so I may get the slightest bit of respect for you.

In the meantime, I'll be out promoting Ron Paul.

Bob W., Naples, FL

Bob W., Naples, FL