273 votes

Does this look fishy to anyone else?

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

The campaign or local supporters need to sue

This is going to keep happening in each state. There will be different aspects of the fraud. There needs to be legal challenges filed in each state where this happens.

Stockholm Syndrome

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."

"The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable; and let it come! I repeat, Sir, let it come!"
-- Patrick Henry

I agree with that poster. Everybody has Stockholm Syndrome and they don't even realize it. Peace sounds all nice and fuzzy and stuff, but the truth is that "Dependency is more popular than Freedom" and "Peace is more popular than Freedom". Trying to wake people up and make them want Freedom didn't work in 1776, so please tell me why it will work today?

"I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past."
-- Patrick Henry

As time passes, those in power build greater and greater power, forces, and reinforcements, and the dependency class grows larger and larger and larger, and Paul-type supporters will not keep up. We are not the 20% we are getting in the votes. All strong Paul supporters vote, and the ones that don't vote are not Paul supporters - and they are 99%. So, in reality, Freedom is popular with about 20% of 1%, or about 0.2% - so ... the more we keep wishing, the more difficult and impossible Freedom will ever be. I have been watching this for 30 years, and I am very pessimistic.

We have been indoctrinated to think that life is too dear, and peace is too sweet, even if purchased at the price of chains and slavery. If love & peace was effective against tyranny and evils, there would have never been any wars, uprisings, or killing in history. Until we are spiritually prepared to sacrifice our lives for liberty, the future will never see it.

As Patrick Henry said:

"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! ... Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"

"They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power."

"If this be treason, make the most of it!"

"Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty?"

Stockholm Syndrome


Tell me one time in history when sissies ruled or aquired power? Tell me how you don't love the comforts of your master more than the price of freedom? Tell me how the dependency class is not growing and growing faster than Constitutionalists? They are dumping 100,000 immigrants into 10 major cities on average every year legally (that's over 10 million every decade), and multiples of that illegally. If you moved to China, would you feel heritage with Mao and vote in accordance? They don't give rats ass about the stupid Constitution. They don't see any heritage to the Founders. They are coming to get what they can while they can however they can. That's all. I watched single mothers give birth to 3+ kids on average my whole time in cities, growing up dumb as rocks. Nobody ever took power the nice way - if so, TELL ME, instead of hitting the Thumbs Down button. About 1% of people are voting, and Ron Paul supporters are 20% of that, TELL ME THIS IS WRONG! We are willing to waste our whole lives under tyranny, and those of our posterity, trying to acquire power with an "INFOWAR". Or maybe we think most of the population will start studying serious issues on the Internet, and educate themselves, and vote against their handouts. It's nonsense. Virtue has been virtually eliminated from society.

As I have tried to say in the past: the root problem is that parents have kids and just dump into the system to raise, care, and provide for, and that creates a never-ending ever-growing dependency class, and ever-increasing power for tyrants. Until parents start providing sustainable land for each male child across society, dependency RULES. AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT EQUATION. Except mass death. There never was and never will be a "good leader" on average - maybe you get one here or there, but the only way into the future is LEADERLESS. Until then, there will only be endless crisis and suffering.

I agree generally.....

Before I read your post, I was stoking the fire in the stove, and was pondering the big picture. Which is that we are all too well fed to care.

People are either submissive and will take what is given to them, and thank their masters....

Or violent, and will take by force.

We now use civilized, legal theft, via the government, which most don't understand and never will.

As long as you leave the masses something to eat, and a decent TV, they don't really care how much you take.

War is a sport, and most really like seeing our bombs dropping. Even those who worship the Prince of Peace.

Yep, we're pretty much animals.

Hold on a minute..

On its face, yes, it does look fishy. I decided to crunch a few more numbers and am still left wondering.

Check out these charts I whipped up, and see what you think. Did Ron simply get a bigger piece of a (much) smaller pie?


edit: That's not to say there definitely wasn't fraud, but maybe its not quite as dramatic as we're thinking.

Well your charts are yet another indication of shenanigans

In Iowa, he doubled his piece of the pie. (+100% of his piece of the pie from 2008)

In NH, he tripled his piece of the pie. (+200% of his piece of the pie from 2008)

In FL, although you don't have a chart for it, RP probably tripled his piece of the pie (lower turnout in 2012, higher percentage for RP even with no campaign there). (+200% of his piece of the pie from 2008)

In SC, RP probably quadrupled his piece of the pie (like FL, lower turnout, higher percentage for RP) (+300% of his piece of the pie from 2008)

Yet in Nevada, he only gained 100 votes (+35% of his piece of the pie from 2008).

Turnout or not, those numbers are anomalous in Nevada.
As you can see Romney kept about the same percentage in 2008 and 2012 in all states.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, an

That's the whole point

Why was the pie SO much smaller in Nevada? The pie may only APPEAR to have shrunk because so many Paul supporters were turned away or not counted.

5% gain in NV ( a RP stronghold)

vs a 11% and 15% gain respectively. Still very questionable. Nice charts though.


What's up with the 25% drop in attendance though?

Drop in attendance

or missing ballots? Or a combination of?

I've lost all faith..

I have lost all faith in the American election process.

Not only do I believe that the primary elections have been fraudulent, with the help of "the party" and the mainstream media...

I also believe that "the machine" has already decided the outcome of the November election. Obama will be "re elected".

It is my opinion that Romney already knows Obama will "win" as well...Romney is just a well oiled part in a much larger corporate machine that controls both parties, and dictates the agenda.

The computers and algorithms and "quality assured" processes are all in place to create a winner.

This is one of the saddest days I can remember since my eyes were opened and I woke up. I used to think Liberty had a chance. Now I am certain America is lost.



will rejuvinate your hope.

Tis True


Nice post 5 stars.

"A picture is worth a thousand words."


I try to change people every day. Do You?

YES IT SURE DOES look fishy. My take...They KNEW he was

...going to kill in Nevada.

The polls never were really reliable or even visible for that matter.


But that last late night election showed the TRUTH.

DIRT is going on by the ROTTED RNC.

They PROMISED Romney the nomination in 2008 and Romney has PROOF.

So if he doesn't get it he will EXPOSE the scandal (Highly ILLEGAL) and the RNC will be in DEEP Sh*t.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Show us the same kind of graph for Romney...

Romney, He got more in Iowa, and more in NH, and More in SC, and More in Florida, but less in Nevada.

Its a head scratcher for sure.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Overall turnout was just way less in Nevada

But that should have worked to Paul's advantage.

We've all heard it by now: Once you're a Paul supporter, you never go back. So he only picked up less than 100 new supporters in 4 years? That doesn't make sense.

allegory - ˈalɪg(ə)ri/ - noun - 1. a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.


would you mind adding the total turnouts in 08 and 12 ? that would make the picture clearer.
probably even add Romney's numbers, I think he lost like 30% of votes of 4 yrs !!

Dr.Ron Paul's 2002 Predictions

IF and only IF

The support we get in Colorado, Minnesota, Maine, and Missouri are much larger than in 08 would I consider the idea that thousands of Ron Paul votes were defrauded.

BUT if indeed he does gather that support, at the very least, the campaign itself owes us an explanation as to what they really think happened in Neveda.

what will you do if you dont have your freedom

silly question

does anyone have Nevada poll results over the last 4 years

Sent it to Drudge

Sent it to Drudge




I did too

I did too

Correlation does not equal causation.

Rule #1 in logic.

It could be a number of things. #1 that Nevada did WELL in 2008 so the increase this year would be relatively smaller than other states. #2 that we had a poor turnout in NV. And we know we did. We had a poorly executed GOTV effort assuming everyone knew what to do. We never reached our man in the street supporters to explain what they needed to do when and how important it was.

Cyril's picture

You make good points, and I reckon

You make good points, and I reckon you are logical, there.

I like that. :)

BUT. Let's be completely thorough then, shall we?

There is a fact you omit, maybe it's forgotten/overlooked already, but...

Turns out everybody knows there has been a significant turn out this time... for ALL candidates.

Given, also, that Romney's score was expected to stay very strong and Newt's maybe too, but with more uncertainty, the overall "turn out phenomenon" SHOULD normally have NOT been distributed evenly among the candidates scores (statistically and probabilistically)... See, what I mean is we should have noticed a Ron Paul's score differential, between 2008 and today much more significant, as him being "only" a (or THE) challenger.
Again, I am not speaking of absolute values... Only the differential trend.

In other words : Ron Paul, whether in actual 2nd or 3rd position in the end, SHOULD have been with the best probabilities the biggest BENEFICIARY of a turn out the scope of which is in the tens of thousands votes.

Or else :

... indeed, this graph above seems to suggest that the RP voters camp has taken MOST of the vote turn out "burden" this year, throughout all the candidates altogether.

Which still leaves room for reasonable doubt: how come SO MANY RP voters, in proportion differential over 4 years, would be downright missing or voting for someone else instead, as compared to the others?

It is, also, a troubling coincidence, that if RP camp DID sleep lazy in NV, that the final RP score is ALSO just a tiny bit higher than the 2008's, "as if only" it were for the sake of remaining "plausible"

(that is, for instance, as opposed to it a would-be even LOWER than 2008's)

... and even more conveniently just below Newt's for that matter ... no?

Just trying to share my skepticism... Logically ;)

Does this make sense?

Or maybe I just missed your point entirely.

and voting your argument up, then, btw

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

If I read you correctly, then

If I read you correctly, then you're saying that the campaign dropped the ball.

Can you share a little more with us about that?

But going back to your point about logic: Did Florida have any GOTV effort at all? My understanding that Florida was basically abandoned by the campaign, and still his support increased by orders of magnitude.

I'll concede point #1, that Paul did great in Nevada in 2008, so maybe the increase would be smaller. But less than 100 new supporters over the course of 4 years? That doesn't seem right to me.

As for point #2 - poor turnout: That should have helped Paul. Ron Paul supporters go out and vote. They're organized. They know what time it is. He should have gained more than 100 votes over 4 years.

allegory - ˈalɪg(ə)ri/ - noun - 1. a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

either fraud or the campaign severely misled us

either way the campaign needs to speak to us and tell us what's up. maybe we killed in delegates going to the state convention... do we have a number and when is it? when is the iowa state delegates convention...

we got like 1/4 the votes that the campaign expected, and it's not like there was any shocking ron paul scandal the week before... is it because he was in MN? does ron paul need to speak up a little more about going to the polls in his speeches and interviews? i think so.... come on MN! and CO! (and MO!) and Maine!!!!!

go vote and take others with you!!!!

We did do very well in delegates.

Could be as high as 40% - county delegates that is. Let's see how that translates into state delegates.

dr. paul in vegas

dr. paul was in nevada making two stops in vegas friday night. i was at one of them. he didn't leave for mn until either late friday night or early saturday morning.

Nothing here,

move along, nothing strange. This is all feasible.


Fox news, RNC, DNC and NV State GOP