The Evangelical factor.
Submitted by Alaskan on Wed, 02/08/2012 - 02:21The Evangelical factor.
Since 1997 I have been involved with a religious based web site. The focus of this website is end times discussion but many other topics are discussed. The site has nearly 17K members. Given the volume of individuals that post there I would say it is a good representation of the evangelical community. In 2007 when I began to follow Paul I encountered a great deal of resistance there along with the typical Paul slander. In fact between 2008 and last year I wouldn’t even bring up Paul other than to defend him or correct misconceptions or slander. In 2010 the board provided a stick post “Ron Paul vs. Genuine Conservatism” a closed thread bashing Paul and promoting neo-conservatism and reiterating that libertarian ideas are not to be discussed at that web site. Up until July I did my best to participate without breaking the rules all the while hoping to inject truth.
In July of last year the politics forum disappeared. I presumed it was because the moderators were tired of the sometime ruckus political discussion and decided to bag the whole thing. A disappointment but I respected their decision. Today I wanted to look up an old post of my so I used the forums search feature, I could not find my post. So I used a simple web archive search engine and found to my surprise not only was the politics forum still there but there were posts from today. The moderators in an act of deception removed my access to just that one forum without any communication as to the reason.
I’ll tell you the reason. Ron Paul corrects neo-con evangelicals of their error. He lives life as a believer should effecting change in the world around him by be a good example and living by the golden rules. They can’t stand this, the rage is just like that of the Pharisees. When their hypocrisy is revealed they get angry.
Well today I called them on their deceit to me. My post was deleted and I was banned for life within an hour.
Why won’t they come to the Paul camp? Gays and Israel. As a result they are rallying behind Santorum, which is funny because at the same site Catholicism is considered a cult and they argue that a pope will likely be the future antichrist.
I don’t have a solution or even a strategy. I do know that the followers of Christ that I know, ones who know the Word of God and live to bring God glory are open to and willing to consider and or support the ideas forwarded by the Dr. Paul.
Thank you God for opening my eyes thank you Dr. Paul for leading by example.
Some quotes from today at that site.
“Santorum Wins MO & MN!
Speaking in St. Charles, MO right now on Fox News. ”
“Oh thank you Lord! How encouraging! “
“Great news. I really like Santorum. He is a good, honorable and honest man. He will win Colorado too I am sure.
I prefer him so much over Gingrich and Romney. ”
“Agreed! He got at least two Xxxxxx Xxxxxxx votes that I know of from St. Charles County. ”
“From SW Missouri, praying Santorum is David the Shepherd boy getting ready to take on Goliath and that mitt and gingrich were his lion and bear “
“Praise the Lord. Now maybe he can get more momentum going.”
“ And from Minnisooooota I just gotta say, "AMEN, brother!!!!" “
“I hope he can continue to stay in the race. I hate that they keep telling us that Romney is going to win “
An Open Letter to America’s Christian Zionists
I ran across this site a while back. It's encouraging to know that there are Christian Organizations who are promoting peace.
The New Evangelical Partnership for the Common Good (NEP), a faith-based nonprofit, offers a renewed Christian public witness for the sake of the Gospel and the common good.
The article is worth the read as it gives an interesting response to the typical evangelical argument concerning Israel.
An Open Letter to America's Christian Zionists
http://www.newevangelicalpartnership.org/?q=node/139
I also think this thread needs to be integrated with the one located here:
http://www.dailypaul.com/207622/must-watch-the-roots-of-chri...
Ron Paul 2012 - Restoring the Founding Fathers American Dream
Priests....
-Denis Diderot
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”
-Denis Diderot
Thoughts from a Christian
I'm not a Christian in name only. I actively seek to promote the gospel of Jesus. Just wanted to start with that.
Here is the breakdown:
Old school "evangelicals" have researched Mormonism and they understand its origins and the difference between it and Christianity. They do not view Mitt as a true "evangelical" conservative.
The win in SC from "evangelicals" there was not about Newt being the best option, it was a vote against the media that tried to expose him a few days before the SC election. They did that on purpose to send a message to the media that they will do what they want regardless of the reporting (even if it was accurate and something to consider).
Santorum is the new hero for these old school "evangelicals". Its because he passionately fights against abortion and gay marriage and the new enemy of theirs...muslims.
These people do not reflect the majority of Americans. But they do reflect a large majority of those who SHOW UP to vote.
A lot of these people do not know much about Ron Paul, only what they see on TV. My parents are in this camp so I know it well.
The way to win them is by patiently and humbly presenting your case for Ron Paul and then let time prove itself.
They know the political landscape is changing but they don't know any other way to interact so they look to politicians who will appeal to their worst fears.
Present Ron Paul to them with JOY and HUMILITY.
"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul
Spot on! I wish I could wave
Spot on! I wish I could wave a magic wand and make the stupid fundy Christians just go away. I once was a fundy and know how they think. They are our version of the Taliban. If they could, they would excecute gays, ban all porn, require Bible instruction in school. Most Fundies would also have no problem with us turning the Middle East into a parking lot. The GOP is not for us because of them. Unless we can bring in more unlike them, we are doomed as long as we stay in the GOP. They are not convertable. Gays and Israel indeed. There is no reasoning with these fools. And they are fools. Time to say it. and be unfraid of saying it. They say we are and benefit from it.
Thank you for this observation
As you say Israel is really at the centre of the shunning of Ron Paul by those Christians and others who support the Jewish State.
Like you I came to the revelation in 1998 that the churches were inculcating Pharisaism with their eschatology that mirrors the first century condition and beliefs of the Jews. This is further reflected in their insistence on "American Exceptionalism" that up until last year I had heard applied only to "Zionist Exceptionalism".
Of course every nation has its own particular brand of exceptionalism usually called patriotism but this strong emphasis today in America reminds me of the British sense of superiority that permeated the time of the British Empire. It is I believe used to repress any knowledge of the evil they are doing around the world just as the Christian Zionists reject Dr. Paul because they are convicted by his actions that are the antithesis of their own.
As another comment has said in this post these Christians are those who have been blinded by God under a strong delusion. This does not mean however that none can be reached to change their mind (repent) and destroy this idol of their heart (Israel) which is in competition with the Lord jesus Christ. There is a book online well worth reading if one wishes to understand the biblical foundation of the present situation in the Middle East. It is called "The Struggle For The Birthright":
http://gods-kingdom-ministries.org/books/birthright/index.cfm
I believe that the present Presidential campaign is a typical reflection of a spiritual reality and Ron Paul is a type of Jesus Christ within this drama. His name means Humble, Serious, Comforter, Advisor and Ruler. When he ran in 2007/8 he was rejected. This is his second campaign under the Republican banner and this time I believe he will be successful. Given the strategy of the campaign I believe that the National Convention will reflect the defeat of the Midianites by Gideon and his band of 300 (Judges 3:15). This in turn is a type of the manifestation of the sons of God (Romans 8:18-19).
I believe he key to winning the support of at least some of the Christian Zionists is the true story of Obama's War, the Libyan racial genocide. Once they discover that the War on Terror against Islamist extremists is a fabrication and a cover story to hide the true purpose of their government they will I believe be more open to the rest of the story.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
Should have let you post...
You said it so much better than I. THANK YOU.
I will check out the book you referenced.
Blessings,
Jodie
Thanks Jodie
for the compliment. or should I say complement since we are all in this together.
"By the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter will be established." (2 Corinthians 13:1)
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
One other thought....
Since this appears to be a thread where Christian principles can be discussed I wanted to add this thought that came to me strongly yesterday before attending my caucus.
As a bible-believing Christian, I know that this world is destined to "go down." How that plays out specifically for the USA, I do not know. But I DO know that the primary factor is the state of men's hearts (and women....LOL) and their relation to God.
Ron Paul is a man. A messenger. It is his MESSAGE of freedom and liberty that makes us stand up and do the work that we are doing to get him elected. But beyond the election, it is the MESSAGE that we are hoping to ignite in the hearts of other Americans.
And I firmly, with ALL of my heart believe that this message is a biblical one. One of righteousness, and justice. And one that put's man's freedom ABOVE the quest for power and control. This IS a message worth fighting for.
Not because we necessarily have an agenda to "win" in THIS world...but KNOWING it is the ULTIMATE BATTLE being fought for the next world.
In other words, the fact that we are fighting at all IS the point.
Believing in the ideal of freedom, liberty, righteousness and justice is not fought in vain. Because as Christians, we know that in the end, these ideals WILL win through Jesus Christ.
EDIT: It appears this may NOT be a thread where this kind of post would be well received, but so be it. I willpost it anyway. :)
Very true
If you read my post you will see that the Midianites figure in the final battle and the name Midianite means strife. We are living out a typical representation of a spiritual reality and it is Ron Paul's designated mission to bring an end to strife i.e. to usher in (typically) the Kingdom of God which is righteousness joy and peace in the Holy Spirit.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
"Why won’t they come to the Paul camp? Gays and Israel. "
As if our soldiers weren't sodomizing prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
Not preaching truth in the pulpit is the reason
Years of not preaching truth from the pulpit + slavish devotion to Fox News =
blind and ignorant "Christians" who worship the state.
It's happened before. Read the book "Hitler's Cross" and Dietrich Bonhoffer's writings.
Our biggest obstacle to reaching Evangelicals is that ...
Our biggest obstacle to reaching Evangelicals is that they're waiting for Armageddon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNcPX9KbwSY
Flawed theology/eschatology combined with neo-con foreign policy have totally blinded them. They have ears but don't hear and eyes but don't see. All Evangelical Christian leaders (http://www.dailypaul.com/207619/turn-the-tables-on-christian...) should view "The Roots of Christian Zionism: How Scofield Sowed Seeds of Apostasy".
The maker of this film has some other good articles on Christian Zionism at whtt.org
Here are some worth looking at:
The Jerusalem Declaration On Christian Zionism
http://whtt.org/newwhtt/main.php?nid=3121
The Unacceptable Cost of Christian Zionism; Its Legacy of Pain
http://whtt.org/newwhtt/main.php?nid=3694&ncateid=1
No Biblical Support for Christian Zionism's Political Views
http://whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=3735
Part II No Biblical Support for Christian Zionism's Political Views
http://whtt.org/newwhtt/main.php?nid=3736
The Jewish World is Not Unified on Zionism
http://whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=3577
Judaized Christianity is a Front for New World Order 1956
http://whtt.org/index.php?id=PhariseeWatch&cat=2#3427
Ron Paul 2012 - Restoring the Founding Fathers American Dream
i deplore
the whole notion of mixing religion, superstition, claims of knowing the unknown - with how we all come together to "make our bed"
i love the history of religion - the stories - because that's all they really are - the myths - because that's all they really are - the legends - because that's all they really are.
but if i started bringing in peter pan and moby dick and the sword in the stone into how and why we should be voting and what for........trying to group people based on myths......
give me a break.
it was other HUMANS who brought me the words of dr. paul. not a "god" and if there IS indeed a "god" out there - she'll be more than happy for me to have taken this much off her plate - more than happy that some people on this lonely floating rock are diligent enough to have taken responsibility for themselves, for their actions, for their decisions, for their humanity, for their lives, for their thoughts, for the things that have been brought to bear in this world, in this reality.
i am most thankful when we can just discuss our reality together without seriously considering things that truly have no bearing on the subjects at hand.
i'm saying all of this here because i just can't stand it anymore......evangelical this.....Muslim that........atheist this.......Buddhist that.......jesus
update: oh no! someone down voted me. boo hoo. i'm so depressed. maybe i'll turn to some deity and play make-believe in my head.
this thread is an excellent argument for . . .
non-collectivism and indivdiuality!
Thanks--
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
I'm Southern Baptist, & so is Ron Paul
Yet I wonder how many Southern Baptists are voting for Catholics and Mormons down here? I'd like to find out that statistic. Though it would just prove that people don't vote on conviction, they vote on party.
God save the Republic...cuz we sure ain't gettin it done!
That is what people get for expecting religious fundtamentalists
to be rational.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
don't LUMP fundamentalists with anyone!
...we are all still INDIVIDUALS...I, as a fundamentalist, or orthodox Christian; see myself as SELF-EDUCATED and LEARNED - like the founders, I subscribe to a PURE faith - where I study to KNOW about the wisdom and pleadings of the Bible to set an example unto ALL men created equal...
There are MANY deceived by man-made, man-tainted exterior religiosity; which justifies serving MONEY, not God - they point to their perceived and fleeting wealth and call it a "blessing" ... on the other end of this type of deception is VIOLENT radicals, or, even our Christian politicians who send out our military to KILL innocent children for purely racist religious reasons...
Be careful with the MSM-fed "collectivism"; those Christians are an abomination to our founders faith, moral fortitude, self-LESS-ness and patriotism.
Christians SHOULD; as the puritans who fled the church state of Europe - CHALLENGE and CONFRONT the hypocritical leaders of BOTH the state AND the church who say "I am a Christian", and DARE to assume AUTHORITY by mere intellect, over another American ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Discernment2012/feed
The deliberate Marxist tanking of this economy through political cronyism and moral compromise, in pursuit of the love of money carrot-and-stick approach(Federal Reserve bubble)cost me and my family a successful budding career that I loved! Ron Paul 2012
In case you didn't notice
The main post was about a specific website and it's administrators/owners, to which I was referring.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
I'm in MN....
.....and I have to say that this thread is SPOT ON with how thing went down in our state last night.
I am an evangelical Christian and I cannot even fathom how to justify a vote for Santorum. What I HAVE found when speaking to those who do support him is that they MISTAKENLY feel that Ron's position of pulling foreign aid from Israel is equivalent to not supporting Israel.
However, this thread gave me more insight into what else may be driving them and that is the idea that bombing Iran in their eyes is equivalent to supporting Israel.
And this baffles me.
Because if they were truly bible-believing Christians, they would SEE that in the end times Israel is GOING to get attacked. God said so. Period. So why do they think they can create a different outcome than one that God ordained?
And since when do Christians put war ABOVE the virtues of integrity, living a life as an example of Christ, humbleness, faithfulness, and honesty???
Put these 2 people (Santorum and Paul) side by side and rate them based on these values and there is NO CONTEST who more closely exemplifies the walk of a Christian!!!
Basically just putting my thoughts out there and realizing there is so much more going on these days than just a presidential race. Feels more like a separating the wheat from the chaff to me.
This is exactly why we need a well known, well respected
And well spoken Minister/Pastor to stand up as spokesman of Christians For Ron Paul - Someone Christian media and MSM is already familiar with, it makes getting interviews so much easier.
Please do this!
1. Find a spokesman
2. Compile a list of Christian and MSM (nationwide and targeting the upcoming states to vote)
3. Start sending emails and making phone calls to line up interviews, and lets turn this thing around.
Organizers of the Revolution March 2008, The Rally for the Republic, and the March on the White House 2012 have teamed up with Entertainment Pros to create PAUL FEST! A Celebration of Freedom big enough to Change The World! http://www.paulfestival.org/
You nailed it
when you said: "I’ll tell you the reason. Ron Paul convicts Neo-con evangelicals of their error. He lives life as a believer should effecting change in the world around him by be a good example and living by the golden rules. They can’t stand this, the rage is just like that of the Pharisees. When their hypocrisy is revealed they get angry."
I've been a follower of Christ for many years. I will dare to say that 90% of people who call themselves Christians have absolutely no clue. The remnant is called the remnant for a reason.
I actually feel sorry for those 90% who are the majority sitting in churches on Sunday. Someday they will have to answer to God for their love of war, murder, and injustice, and their blind following of MEN instead of God. Imagine their horror when God says, "I never knew you."
So did you!
so a bump and an amen from part of the Amen Chorus! (not to be confused with the Rush amen Chorus)
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
Tired of failed strategies.
We need the hookers and the drug addicts, the people who have no voice need taught how to be heard. It is sort of like what Jesus would do, rather than sitting around trying to get Christians to stop being afraid of Islamic Jihadists.
Yeah, I think I am going to take a little break.
Does anyone understand that the MOST vile war we are waging as a nation is the "War on Drugs?" It fuels a "prison for profit" system that destroys black families in absurd disproportion, and keeps violent criminals on the streets because it is so much safer to arrest a pothead. And never mind that marijuana is widely recognized among MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS as a potentially life-saving CURE for many ailments, a good Christian just can't seem to defend the right to SAFE and EFFECTIVE HERBS that have never killed anyone. No, the Christian thing to do is trot down and get a pill, be a nice legal addict like Jesus would do.
I wonder how many "evangelicals" understand that many of the healings described were very likely the result of "anointing" with the oil from the marijuana plant? And yet none of you see any reason to fight for the right of cancer patients to get access to it. Even Dr. Paul will take the MORAL stand against this WAR ON OUR CHILDREN but all those who support the good doctor can't seem to find the stones to STAND WITH HIM.
I am not cut out for politics. I try to stand up for what is right. Dr. Paul is right on so many things, i want to stand up for him. But when I see the company I am keeping, I want to go back to my chickens and cows.
Whatever else I said a minute ago, the last word I want to get in is
LOVE!
2 Thessalonians 2:10 and 2:11
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
They are deceived, and of course, don't know it.
They are the "falling away", but they think they are the "elect". They are under the strong delusion.
I try to break this strong delusion in some people, but they use Political Correctness false terms such as "anti-semite" to shout me down, instead of recognizing truth. Much in the same way they shouted you down. They are lost.
Eventually, they will be the persecutors of the true remnant, thinking that they are doing "God's work".
The Roots of Christian Zionism: How Scofield Sowed Seeds of Apos
You are not alone in your assessment.
This video was discussed in a very interesting thread here:
http://www.dailypaul.com/207622/must-watch-the-roots-of-chri...
Although the thread got buried, there are still some discussions going on about the Remnant, Israel, end times, abomination of desolation, Daniel's 70th week etc.
These issues are all related to the problem we face with the Evangelical vote and Ron Paul
Ron Paul 2012 - Restoring the Founding Fathers American Dream
There has been NO Evangelical force visible in these results
Frothy is Catholic and so is GettinRich. The only Christian is Ron Paul.
Evangelicals now = Catholics?
There is no logic.
The GOP just sits down and vote frauds and it's up to the media throw out buzz terms like 'evangelicals', 'independents', 'tea party', etc.
Aka smearing the scene with a bunch of bullsh*t so that you don't question the fraud.
================================
Graduate from keyboard warrior and sign-waver with ROBERT'S RULES: http://www.dailypaul.com/142513/roberts-rules-video-library
Not David the shepherd boy, but David the king, who sent Uriah
off to die in war.
I get the Evangelicals
These folks really buy into the Rapture and they are convinced that killing for israel will buy them a ticket to heaven. But Catholics are just as bad. They completely ignore the rotten fruits of Frothy and Gingrich, their histories of corruption and lying. They blather on about how "changed" they are and how "Godly"....and they are "CATHOLIC", which I am embarrassed about. I am fairly certain that a lot of websites are fronts for intel organizations and state propaganda. There seem to be certain posters who almost adhere to a formula of (sometimes outright ridiculous) foul lies and ad hominem and refuse to address any real points made, the old Leninist tactic of attempting to simply "shout down" opposition, which doesn't work as well online as in person. I seldom visit a lot of sites I used to like because of this hypocrisy and illogic. God is above all Truth and Love. When a religious group has neither they are following false prophets.
I'm Catholic
I park my Ron Paul mobile in the front of my Church. Some folks are really angry about that. For the past month our homilies have touched on politics. I went to confession apologised to the preist for the turmoil I bring to the Church, and then I explained why I love my candidate without naming him. I received a blessing, and after, was told I was an asset to the Church.
Last week after Church, some folks were standing by my car talking to me about politics. The preist comes out and points to my car and askes, "Whose car is that?" I raised my hand: He shouted: "I LOVE RON PAUL!"
The problem we have is MEAN people BULLY nice people and make it hard for the peace lovers to be open in fear of being attacked, shunned, and ostrisized. I'm a strong soul and so I'm not budging. But weaker souls can not with stand being shunned and slandered at Church.
Pray for them. I pray for them all. I pray for us too, and Ron Paul. I Thank God for Ron Paul, and God blesses me on occaision, like last week, with my preist shouting, "I LOVE RON PAUL!"
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
It sounds like you have a Godly priest!
You're lucky.