New Reality Check by Ben Swann on Delegates and Caucus Problems
Submitted by gyrotip on Thu, 02/09/2012 - 01:37Ben Swann is one of the last, honest news anchors that I know of.
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Alright this is great news
Alright this is great news now what we need to do is keep spreading this info to all Ron Paul supporters so we can continue collecting delegates but not talk about it too much. This is our secret weapon and we don't need Romney, Gingrich, and Santorum fans finding out how it works and to start using it too. People will continue to think Ron's on the back burner and little do they know he really has won every state. The good thing is that most of the other candidates support is older people who don't use the internet so they haven't figured out how the process works and won't find out since the only form of information they use is tv news and the newspaper and none of them are talking about this. This election will go down in history as life changing, the Mayans did say 2012 would be a change in reason and thought for the world I say this is the Ron Paul Revolution haha.
Ummmm..
It's not a secret and I can GUARANTEE you anyone with even a drop of brain juice within the republican party knows how the delegate system works. (Even Santorum! LOL!) the system's been around a looooonggg time (like, since the beginning of elections)? It's just been very underutilized because the "common folk" have been lulled into apathy and do not participate in their political process anymore.
And I'm sorry, but the Mayans have NOTHING to do with this.
I'm 100% for Ron Paul, but I'm not going to go around skipping with a smirk on my face singing "I've got a golden tiiiiicket."
Well, props to Ben for the
Well, props to Ben for the analysis and helping me to understand the caucus/delegate issue, but I completely disagree with his opinion of eliminating the caucus system...if anything ALL states ought to adopt this type of voting system because the delegates won actually represent passionate/knowledgeable support as opposed to just passive vote casting by mindless sheeple (a primary)
....on the other hand I can also see a caucus working against us if a rich candidate can hire delegates to represent him and beat out delegates for another less wealthy candidate, in that case, a simple vote count would actually work in our favor...ultimately I guess it's a toss up...currently though it appears that the caucus process is working in our favor.
Word. I'm very disheartened
Word. I'm very disheartened living in NYC, NY being a primary state. I'm terribly afraid RP supporters are going to get drowned out here.
This is a very good observation
And I agree with you completely. When done right, a caucus is a POWERFUL tool of truly representing who the people themselves choose to be a party's nominee. Otherwise it is a majority rules (51%) and that is a democracy. We are NOT a democracy (as so many people are misled to think), we are a republic. A union of sovereign states who's power SUPERSEDES that of the federal government. (10th amendment).
However, with any system, it can be misused. Obama actually won on the same strategy Ron is using. The difference is (and this is TOTALLY my own opinion), I believe he DID "buy" his delegates to run for him. I don't believe even HE knows how the caucus system works let alone inspire the common every day person to learn and get involved like Ron's people are. I believe they were people that were put in strategic places to fill those district delegate seats.
So if I understand this
So if I understand this correctly, the straw poll at a caucus means absolutely nothing unless your candidate has delegates at that caucus willing to represent him. So even if Ron Paul gets a low turn out in terms of votes...he might still get all the delegates in that particular state caucus if there are enough passionate supporters willing to represent him.
A primary on the other hand, if it is binding, awards delegates proportionally based on the vote count...
Yes!
That is exactly correct.
Or in the case of some primary states, if a candidate receives more than 50% of the total straw poll votes for the entire state, then it's winner takes all.
Otherwise it's divided proportionally by districts. (whoever wins the straw poll in each district gets the delegates for that district).
While this segment is good at
While this segment is good at educating viewers on the difference of a caucus and the misinformation regarding delegate appropriation, it did nothing to investigate actual precinct data in the Nevada caucuses. I know the RP campaign has brushed it aside and moved on as they should since they should not become bogged down in accusations and political infighting. However, I do hope Revpac and other independent supporters can shed some light on the truth there. I do think something sketchy happened and I do not think it should be forgotten. We need to learn from it and make sure that we have honest elections.
I think he spilled the beans on our delegate Strategy.
The two things I will say to RP delegates, don't feel guilty & keep your integrity.
Delegates, Politicians and elections get "bought" all the time.
When you are in Tampa, I am sure you will be offered new cars and jobs for your vote. Its all legal at the Tampa GOP convention. We know about Ron Paul's integrity, I think yours will soon be put to the test.
Treg
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me. Get a check each month as a passive investor, just ask me how.
..so what you're saying...at
..so what you're saying...at the convention even if Paul accumulates a fair number of delegates those can be bribed/intimidated to switch their support to an establishment candidate??
Yes
And a whole lot of other things besides that can occur as well, especially if it becomes a brokered convention. THAT could (and will) get quite intense.
I like caucuses ! I think it
I like caucuses !
I think it rewards people who really care, yes you have to put some effort to show up, but you really need to be dedicated to actually become a delegate !
So good luck guys!
Angry Dumb Guy
I love the angry dumb guy clip at the beginning.
Hey moron, it's a caucus. Take 42 seconds to understand the process before you make yourself look like a complete jackass in public.
I like the caucus process. Primaries are impersonal and lend themselves to exploitation by the establishment machine. Caucuses are very difficult to control top down.
http://goldsteinrepublic.com
Ah yes...
Aha, the down vote.
I've offended someone (probably another recovering progressive who thinks we can convert neocons with hugs).
How dare I suggest that being politically active requires at least a modicum of understanding of the process. DOWN VOTE!
Allow me to reiterate that the angry moron in the clip screwed himself by not gathering a basic understanding of the caucus process. Yet, he threw a childish tantrum and rudely dropped "F" bombs on the chairperson when his own error came home to roost.
But I get a down vote because I called him a "moron".
He is a moron. He failed to prepare and thus he failed us (if he was indeed one of us which I doubt). If we want to win we have to get smarter and tougher and get ready for a long battle that might take a generation.
The neocons play dirty and they play for keeps. Touchy-feely Progressive converts to liberty need to learn that this is a bloodsport, not some hopscotch frolic.
http://goldsteinrepublic.com
This explains Nevada.
The reason the turn out was so low, including RP supporters, is unlike other states where EVERYONE caucuses at the same time (such as 7:00 pm), in Nevada it seems every precinct could choose whatever time they wanted. If you have old people in a precinct, they sure ain't gonna choose 7:00 pm (that's 2 hours past their bedtime ... lol).
THAT is why Nevada was confusing. NOT the caucus system, but the fact that Nevada has flexible caucus times for participation that each precinct can choose, and the word didn't get out to everyone.
I have to agree here, this
I have to agree here, this single handedly explains why the turnout was so low. I would be willing to bet that they decided to change the times at the last minute and didnt tell everyone.
I know we had people who said they got turned away, but it wasnt that many. If I showed up late I wouldnt consider it was being turned away.
I think a question we should ask is just how many people showed up late to vote at these places? I am sure we would likely find quite a few in addition to those that simply didnt go..
This is anti-Ron Paul..Listen carefully
This is anti-Ron Paul..Listen carefully
What he is saying in his "reality check" is that if Ron Paul wins delegates from these states then, we need to abolish the caucus process.
What his network wants to say is: "People shouldn't be allowed to vote. They should just let us tell them how the elections were won".
Participate in America's future- Research Ron Paul- Truth will Prevail! You too, will be proud one day, to be able to say: "I was a Ron Paul supporter."
I think he's more implying
I think he's more implying that if it weren't for caucauses we'd have more honest results. I'm inclined to agree.
Fair and Balanced
That is as close as we will ever be to ever hearing a fair and balanced story from a member of the media. Ben gets ALL of his facts together before airing a word. I miss the investigative journalists that we used to have because they were like heroes to the average American, watching our backs for us. No longer and all I can can is Kudo's to Ben! He is a bright light in the deep abyss of the corruption of the media hacks today.
I agree. Ben is developing one of the few
shows that truly informs viewers with facts and objective analyses.
government incompetence
I LOVE THE IRONY!! Never underestimate government or establishment elite incompetence. The GOP has developed a convoluted system that may effectively put RP in office.
So so sweet.
Whenever the establishment does something that ends up smacking them in the face it always reminds me of the scene in die hard when the FBI shuts off the power to the building and opens the vault for the terrorists.
"you asked for a miracle, I give you the F. B. I."
sublime...
Keep this quiet? This is a HUGE morale booster...
and there is another money-bomb next week. Don't you think that the campaign wants the grassroots to know that "all is not lost"? I'm not worried about the rest of the sheeple....most are not political junkies like us.
Schnecksville, Lehigh County, Pennsylvania
I agree!
Most RP supporters know the feeling of being disenfranchised at the polls. I was actually pretty excited by this report. Here in CA, we've got a long way to go till the primary and all we hear is Romney this and Gingrich that as if the race is all but over. It's important for supporters to know about the delegate process and that Ron Paul still has a stake in it.
Ultimately, though, I think this goes to show how flawed the party system is - that you can have a single party with so many different rules to come up with one nominee is ridiculous! But if the confusion works in our favor - I'll take it!
This still does not explain
This still does not explain how Delegates are selected. Most people think they are allocated proportionally by percentage of the vote in each precinct. This was clearly not the case in the precinct Ben mentioned with Ron Paul awarded 13 out of 13. How does this happen?
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Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
★ http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com ★
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)
Try this link it may help explain things....
Here's the link..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWsOizoUJ7Q
enjoy.
I think it's like this....
If a candidate wins the nomination process by collecting the required amount of popular vote to win the required assignment of delegates, those delegates assigned to that candidate must vote for that candidate.
If there is no outright winner by the time you get to the convention, then you have to see who has the most delegates and begin a round of voting, some delegates are bound to vote for a specific candidate others are not. If after three rounds of voting there isn't a clear winner, all delegates are released and can vote for whomever they choose.
This will only be possible if the convention has to be brokered. So the more delegates that are Ron Paul delegates the more that will vote for him, in a brokered convention. I think this is right.
Thanks for your reply, but
Thanks for your reply, but that does not answer my question. You explained how a brokered convention works, not how Paul can be given 13 out of 13 delegates from a precinct that Santorum won in popular vote.
We are not at a brokered convention yet. We are early in the process.
Ben quoted somebody form Larimer County in this video that said even though Santorum won the straw poll, Paul got all 13 delegates. I want to know how this can happen. Also, it seems contradictory since Ben early said that no delegates were awarded yet. If no delegates were awarded yet, then how did Paul get "all 13"?
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Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
★ http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com ★
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)
Simple
There were 13 Ron Paul supporters there. there were 13 allowed delegates for that precinct. ALL 13 RON PAUL SUPPORTERS RAN FOR DELEGATE POSITIONS AND WERE VOTED IN. (by all the people who were in that room INCLUDING the OTHER candidates supporters). None of the other candidates had supporters step up to the plate and become delegates.
That is not disenfranchisement. That is FREEDOM in ACTION. Every single person in that room, regardless of who they supported as candidate, had the opportunity to run as a delegate. They chose not to.
If more people would become aware of the election process for their state, THEY TOO could go forward to support their candidate in this way.
Now, this is how it is done in CAUCUS states. Primary states are different. In those states, the delegates are awarded depending on who does win the straw poll in their individual districts. 3 delegates are allowed per district. If a candidate wins in a district, they will then select 3 delegates to represent them at the National Convention (usually if you want to be a delegate in this situation, you sign up with the campaign ahead of time. Ron Paul has a link on his website to do this for his campaign). These delegates are then "bound" to vote for that candidate.
HOWEVER, if a candidate wins a MAJORITY (over 50%) of the straw poll in a primary, ALL delegates in ALL districts get awarded to that candidate and are bound.
This is just a simplified explanation. Some states have variations on these rules as well so yes, it is a bit complicated but if you live in a state, you ONLY have to know THAT state's requirements and it's really not much to ask to find out what that is if you truly want to support your candidate.
Nice. Ben did not explain
Nice. Ben did not explain that part. To me, that is critical to understand how this can happen. The other people simply did not want to become delegates and RP supporters did. Brilliant. Now I see why caucus states are so important even if we do not win the actual vote.
I get it now! :)
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Show your support for Ron Paul and inspire others at new grassroots site:
★ http://www.ronpaulpatriotnation.com ★
( Consider uploading a picture or video of your sign or event, etc .)
So it comes down to...
So it comes down to which supporters are the most dedicated and politically aware. Santorum may not have the following that understand the process and make themselves available for delegate selection.
So, Paul delegates are chosen, but are bound by the popular vote should Santorum win it. So, this strategy only works if the nomination process goes to the convention and it has to be brokered. Other wise the popular vote will win it.