Clarifying the misinformation that "Ron Paul is on all 50 state ballots"
Submitted by Lee_A_Mitchell on Thu, 02/09/2012 - 09:50I see this misinformation being spread over and over and I think it's important to clarify. Ron Paul is NOT (yet) on the ballot in all 50 states. If Ron Paul supporters believe he's already on the ballot in all 50 states, then they won't realize that we need their help actually getting him on the ballot.
I think this misinformation stems from the fact that some candidates had missed the deadlines for some states ballots and that Ron Paul had not missed any deadlines, meaning he is capable of being on all 50 ballots, while other candidates are not. However, Paul is most certainly not yet on the ballot in all 50 states.
I'll explain the state I'm most familiar with, Pennsylvania. In order to get on the ballot (for President) in Pennsylvania, one must get 2000 valid republican signatures between January 24th and February 14th. Any signatures collected prior to January 24th are invalid, yet I've been reading about Ron Paul being "on the ballot in all 50 states" well before January 24th.
Furthermore, until February 21st, the petitions can be challenged.
This usually means trying to get signatures thrown out for various reasons, so the general rule is to try to get at least 50% extra signatures for whatever office you're running for in PA. If there are challenges to the petitions, the last day to schedule a hearing is February 24th. The last day to finalize objects is February 29th. As you can see, Ron Paul cannot be considered to have passed all of Pennslvania's requirements until at least February 21st and possibly not until the 29th.
This same deadlines, challenges, and requirements are also present for delegates, except that delegates only need 250 valid republican signatures and the filing fee is only $25 (vs $200 for President).
All this being said, we're down to the final days of trying to get Ron Paul and his delegates on the ballot in Pennsylvania. We essentially need to wrap this up on Sunday so we can get all the petitions together and filed in Harrisburg on Tuesday (2/14).
If you're a Paul supporter, PLEASE find a petition signing event in your area. For some more information on that topic, see here: http://www.dailypaul.com/212555/attn-pennsylvanians-importan...
Please spread this information to Paul supporters in PA (and similar information for other states in which Paul has not yet qualified to be on the ballot).
Source of information is the PA department of State. If you'd like to read about it yourself check it out here: http://www.dos.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/runnin...
The process to get on the ballot in PA is generally the same for all offices and I've done petitions for other candidates (including myself) in the past.
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The original post is what is unclear
There are different laws specific to each of the 50 states and D.C. (since territories figure in the party process too, add their respective laws on the subject).
Penn. only recently opened the process. The process hasn't ended, yet.
In reality, the campaign has been on this all along, and there are plenty of experienced grass roots people doing it in Penn.
They very much are concerned with maximizing eventual delegates which is why they are doing what they are doing.
Contrary to what the original post and many subsequent comments state or imply the total sigs required there are not a huge amount.
The job is being done.
It doesn't help to confuse people with inaccurate and misinformed data.
Producing, distributing and archiving the BEST Ron Paul Speech films.
How was it unclear?
I stated that the information often repeated by Paul supporters that he is already on all 50 states ballots is not true. I then used PA as an example that he wasn't yet on the ballot in this state, thus proving the statement is false. Not sure what was unclear about making a statement and providing an example supporting that statement.
Several other comments provided information about other states to back up the original point of the post, Ron Paul is not (yet) on all 50 state ballots.
Back to specifically PA. If you have never tried to get signatures for Paul or his delegates, you have no idea how difficult it can be. Just yesterday I was averaging about 4 signatures per hour. So yeah, 250 (actually need about 400) per delegate and alternate, and 2000 for president (actually need 4000) may not sound like much, but you're talking over 50,000 volunteer hours.
I've done it
I know exactly how difficult or non-difficult these things are as I do such drives professionally and have done sigs for candidates including what became RP's first run for the presidency.
Penn has a specifically different process as to delegates needing the 250 valid to qualify.
Your 4 per hour figure is right in the range I'd expect for "retail" sig gathering limited by only those eligible to vote in the caucus.
Your amount per hour would be larger door to door with good walk lists assuming these have been made available to you thru the campaign or some other legit campaign organization. There you would expect to do 8-15 or so average, depending on how fast you move between doors.
Using the current voter rolls walk lists you'd know your validity rate as you went...and of course wouldn't need as large a cushion, so you'd need significantly fewer total sigs per delegate.
The point of my original comment is that the Penn situation IS NOT an emergency in any way, shape or form.
Those running the volunteer effort include some who were involved last time, and learned. They've been at it from the start and I dismiss any suggestion that there is any emergency or dire need...
The campaign and those volunteers chose to do it their way, and that's based on their experience and confronting what isn't really that big a deal.
Everything I've seen from those volunteers indicates they've done it correctly.
I thank you for your efforts and hope all those like you who wish to be delegates qualify and vote Ron Paul, for all the rest of us!
Keep the chins up!
Producing, distributing and archiving the BEST Ron Paul Speech films.
Yes, I believe at least 2,000 signatures are needed here
To be on the ballot. I live in southern York county in central PA. I didn't realize until tonight that there is a "Central PA for RP" group that has been collecting sigs for York, Adams and a portion of Cumberland county. Unfortunately, I missed the York county meet-up (didn't know anything about it) and finally found them today on FB. Wish I could have made it :/. I've been trying to get out the vote here for Ron. I am one of only a few in York county that has a bumper sticker/magnet and I haven't seen any signs for him yet. I want to order a bunch of slim jims to give out.
Thomas M. Gallion
woops
wrong reply
They look for any excuse to throw out a signature.
When I ran for congress as a Libertarian in '86 in Indiana, when they would find an "iffy" signature they would throw out the entire page of signatures! Never mind that the remaining 24 were okay.
They would find a signature without a "t" crossed or an "i" dotted and would throw it out as "illegible".
One of the states that year (I don't remember which one) held an emergency session of their legislature to double the amount of signatures required for ballot status when it became apparent we were getting ready to file our signatures. Then it was too late to gather the "newly-required" signatures so we were not on the ballot in that state that year!
They will stop at nothing to keep us off their ballots.
Nevada
Nevada was that state, and we indeed did make it onto the ballot; I know, because I did that sig drive...I know of no other state which had a similar problem in '86, but it is possible I'm forgetting a similar instance elsewhere.
We had people watching the Nevada state legislature precisely to catch them if they tried something like this---which is a precaution that I highly recommend for anyone.
I had been brought in to do that Nevada sig drive starting in late '85 and it wasn't long after that time the legislature tried the funny business, which I think was a rider to unrelated legislation (it's been a long time, I don't remember all dates and details).
We got some extra bucks from National and were able to hire in a few pros and we covered the difference.
We also went to court with an ACLU provided attorney and won there as well...There WAS a remaining problem (or more than one, I don't remember, which effectively meant that they'd retroactively changed the law, applying it to our own earlier approved drive and made it impossible for us to qualify with any amount of signatures). This only could be addressed thru legal action.
There was another reason that particular Nevada sig drive was important, which is that in Nevada one qualified during the offyear elections for the presidential.
So, I had the honor of participating in putting the first state on the ballot for our '88 nominee, who of course was Ron Paul!
Producing, distributing and archiving the BEST Ron Paul Speech films.
Thanx
for the info and reply. I've been racking my brain trying to remember which state it was!
Just goes to prove that Nevada has probably always been shady with their elections.
I think we went for a TRO
Yeah, there are problems around the nation; of course for ballot access Nevada wouldn't rate as nearly the worst.
The main thing in that Nevada drive came down to the lawyer. I got one guy by calling ACLU. The attorney they recommended was very high power, media knew him by reputation, just the kind of guy you want in a case like that.
And, of course, he was working without charge to us.
If my memory is fairly accurate, we'd have been going for an injunction against the new law.
Problem was the lawyer had a big case against some casino, and literally couldn't promise he'd be allowed to show for the hearing, only that he'd try his best to be there.
Lucky for us he got there, because that hearing really was all it took and without that the Secretary of State wouldn't have accepted any sigs or arguments from us :)
Producing, distributing and archiving the BEST Ron Paul Speech films.
Becareful who collects the sigs
As Perry found out in VA, your state may also have rules on exactly who can be a petitioner.
I would also try my best to coordinate with the official campaign to avoid wasting resources (hitting the same area twice).
One reason why the official campaign may not be as open about this process as you like is that they are concerned about non-RP supporters submitting BS petitions and inflating the total just to get tossed out later leaving RP in the lurch.
gedankenexperiment.dk views on finance, politics and science
RON PAUL NEEDS 1000's of Signatures in PA this weekend!!!
The preliminary totals show that we are 1000's of signatures short!!!!! We have signing events all across the state this weekend to insure we collect 2000 VALID signatures and 2000 to 4000 more to sustain a challenge. You also have to sign for the Ron Paul delegates. No delegates, no Ron Paul, it is that simple.
Find the signing event on your congressional district, fill your car with REGISTERED Republicans and go sign for Dr. Paul and the delegates.
https://ronpaul2012.wufoo.com/forms/delegate-signature-events/
Rob P.
www.RonPaulButtons.com
www.trueworldhistory.info
www.RonPaul2012.com
reason to be worried
Do we have reason to be worried or are you just trying to motivate Pennsylvanians?
Be worried in PA?
Well people aren't showing up to the signing events even though the campaign has been sending out tons of emails about it. I think it's because of the misinformation, thus the entire point of my original post.
didn't know
I didn't know about the need for signatures until I saw this post ("Clarifying") on Thursday. I got nothing from meetup and nothing from the campaign. Nothing by snail mail and nothing by e-mail. Nothing.
We were able to find an event in time, thanks to Lee.
From what I have seen, I
From what I have seen, I think we should be slightly worried. We had only 3 weeks to get the signatures, and the deadline is this Tuesday. In my area of PA, the organization for the petition signing events has been horrible and unclear. It's difficult to get that many signatures in 3 three weeks with great planning, so I'm just praying at this point....
Should we not have a ballot access status update periodically w/
the date? Ballot status update 2/10, Ballot access update 2/10. Until all 50 states & Wash DC are secure/ locked in? Not necessarily w/ the # of signatures on hand/ # needed, just in progress, finished, what have you -- or maybe this should only be posted when help is needed. The state-by-state deadline could be posted & contact info. letting the voters know who to get in touch w/, thats it. Keep in mind what is on the Daily Paul Santorums camp has access to, even if they don't have access to Paul daily.
For some reason, we're expected to know every law that exists in America & in our state so we don't break it. We're supposed to know this when we're 18. There's no litmus test for them, as in the 10 commandments or rhyme or reason. C.U.R.E.
The campaign is on this
The campaign is doing this. I've seen repeated mention of Penn. here. There are experienced people in that state doing it, with help from the campaign.
Each state has a unique process, and in Penn. this includes delegates doing their own mini sig drives as part of the larger total, thus gaining us what we hope will be more Penn. delegates for Ron Paul.
Let them do it, they've been on it and they are well organized to get it done.
Producing, distributing and archiving the BEST Ron Paul Speech films.
I think someone's on this
A previous commenter said they were going to work on something.
Each state has different rules, deadlines, and so on. Also some states may be more easily to find the information. It's probably best for people who know how ballot access in their respective states works and share information (with citation) so we can sort of crowd source a definitive list.
Not on the ballot yet in
Not on the ballot yet in Delaware either. We are close, but not yet.
If this was a real issue,
If this was a real issue, wouldn't the official campaign put out an SOS? Just sayin'.
I wish your logic were true.
I wish your logic were true. I've seen the official campaign screw up enough times, that I now trust the grassroots guys at LEAST as much as I trust the campaign.
Freedom Wins!
The fact that Ron Paul is not
The fact that Ron Paul is not yet on the ballot in all 50 states is just that, a fact. Right now is the time to get Paul on the ballot in PA and his campaign has been sending out emails the last couple weeks, so to think that it is already taken care of is simply not correct. I suspect you will be getting emails when it comes time to get him on your states' ballot.
The main point of the post is, do not think Paul is already on the ballot in every state, he needs help getting on the ballot in states, so stop spreading misinformation that he's already on the ballot in all 50 states.
The bigger concern in PA specifically is getting delegate signatures, at least from the delegates I'm in coordination with.
OFFERING TO DEFEND SIGNATURES BELOW COST
I am own the main company in the United States responsible for validating and defending petition signatures. One of our clients is Free and Equal, who defends ballot access rights for candidates (mostly third party). We work without fame for many big campaigns. I am a huge Ron Paul supporter, and I have the Pennsylvania and other voter files. We are willing to verify and document Ron Paul's signatures below our cost, since I donate money to the campaign anyway. Some of the smaller states we'll do 100% free of charge. If you are involved in the signature gathering effort, have your coordinator contact me. I do not need the petitions shipped. We work with digital images which also preserves an archive in case they are needed in court. mike@allieddataservice.com
URGENT! Pennsylvania!
I just read this on someone's page!! URGENT Pennsylvanians -- We need your signature to get Ron Paul delegates on the ballot. This must be done by the end of this weekend, so they can be turned-in February 14. -- (If you don't know your district number, click this link and type in your zip code) http://www.govtrack.us/congress/findyourreps.xpd
THANK you
.
Click here for PA Delegate Signature events -- dates, times, places
https://ronpaul2012.wufoo.com/forms/delegate-signature-events/
PA district 4, 11, 15 sig event
I took four to the District 4,11,15 event in New Cumberland on Tuesday. Very cool scene. I don't know yet if they got enough signatures for the delegates.
Arizona? CHECK!
I was there when we submitted the paperwork (with 40 people in attendance):
http://www.meetup.com/RonPaulPhoenix/events/44279872/
My Co-Organizer Jeanne Manwiller was the person who drew Lucky #7 in the ballot ordering draw:
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/103207-2012-01-13-bal...
Arizona is official for whomever will be keeping track.
Ed in Phoenix
Rights are like muscles; you must exercise them to keep them fit, or they will atrophy and die.
RP is officially on the California Ballot.
RP won the preliminary CA straw poll with 44.9% CA has a Whopping 169 delegates baby! Sign up to be one PLEASE!!!
Sec of State Press Release offical memo:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/admin/press-releases/2012/db12-029.pdf
The list of Candidates:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/2012-elections/june-primary/...
Proof it was released Feb 6th:
http://www.ballot-access.org/2012/02/06/california-secretary...
I live in CA
but I'm confused. I thought that delegates in a primary were pledged proportionally based on the results? So why does Ron Paul need us to become delegates in a primary state?
They are pledged but...
if there's a brokered convention (no one candidate has gotten 50% of the delegates), then the delegates who were pledged are freed of that pledge to vote however they like. So we need delegates in the event of a brokered convention. When you look at delegates (not the popularity contest votes), we could very well win this thing. Of course it is the delegates that matter.
That being said, because we need to ensure no one candidate collects 50% of the delegates going in to the convention, it's good to keep both Gingrich and Santorum in the race as long as possible as they are taking delegates from Romney.