0 votes

14th amendment vs Illinois Government

I've
been debating with a conservative and we got onto the topic of Dr. Paul wanting to amend the 14th amendment. He says this would give the states the right to go by their constitution. I live in Illinois and our government is ran by mostly Chicago politics. They've proposed several bills recently that infringe the second amendment. If they were to do away with the 14th and gave states their power back I promise you that owning any type of firearm in Illinois would be a felony. Can somebody please enlighten me on this? Would I lose my rights in the constitution?




Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

The 14th Amendment created

The 14th Amendment created something that did not exist under the original Constitution. It created Federal Citizenship. The Second Amendment, and the other Amendments, prohibit the States from infringing upon the Citizens of the States. It does not however prevent the States from infringing upon the Constitutional rights of Federal Citizens. In the original Constitution the citizens of the States had certain "privileges and immunities" given by their State and by the Constitution. But the Federal Citizens did not exist under those privileges and immunities. The 14th Amendment created the Federal Citizens, and states that those Citizens have "privileges and immunities". The privileges and immunities of the original State citizen are, among others, the Bill of Rights. The States CANNOT take these things away from their Citizens. But the privileges and immunities of the Federal Citizen are different than the State Citizen, and the State is not restricted from taking away the privileges and immunities of a Federal Citizen UNLESS the Federal Government specifically forbids the States from doing so, through the 5th Clause of the 14th Amendment.

“The right of trial by jury in civil cases, guaranteed by the Seventh Amendment (Walker v. Sauvinet, 92 US 90), and the right to bear arms guaranteed by the Second Amendment (Presser v. Illinois, 116 US 252), have been distinctly held not to be privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment against abridgment by the States, and in effect the same decision was made in respect of the guarantee against prosecution, except by indictment by grand jury, contained in the Fifth Amendment (Hurtado v. California, 110 US 516), and in respect of the right to be confronted with witness is, contained in the Sixth Amendment. West v. Louisiana, 194 US 258. In Maxwell v. Dow, supra, where the plaintiff in error had been convicted in a state court of a felony upon information and by a jury of eight persons, it was held that the indictment, made indispensable by the Fifth Amendment, and the trial by jury guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment, were not privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, as those words were used in the Fourteenth Amendment… the decision rested upon the ground that this clause of the Fourteenth Amendment did not forbid the States to abridge the personal rights enumerated in the first eight Amendments, because these rights were not within the meaning of the clause ‘privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States.’ …We conclude, therefore, that the exemption from compulsory self-incrimination is not a privilege or immunity of National citizenship guaranteed by this clause of the Fourteenth Amendment against abridgment by the States…

“…it is possible that some of the personal rights safeguarded by the first eight Amendments against National action may also be safeguarded against State action, because a denial of them would be a denial of due process of law… If this is so, it is not because those rights are enumerated in the first eight Amendments, but because they are of such a nature that they are included in the conception of due process of law.”

(Twining v. New Jersey, 211 U.S. 78, 98-99, 29 S.Ct. 14, 53 L.Ed. 97.)

If they did away with the 14th Amendment then neither chicago nor Ill. would be allowed to violate your 2nd Amendment right because you would no longer be a Federal Citizen. They would then be in violation of the Constitution, which they ARE NOT currently violating by taking guns away from Federal Citizens.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Some more about the 14th

Some more about the 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment is unconstitutional, due to the method of ratification. The States, under their own dejure congresses, rejected the 14th Amendment. It didn't pass. There was then a military coup, the Reconstruction Acts, that took over the governments of 10 States and through military occupation the Amendment was passed. But it was not passed by the States of their own freewill. These States rejected the 14th Amendment because they understood that the 14th Amendment was the END of State sovereignty/State's Rights.

Here is one of many short essays on the unconstitutionality of the 14th Amendment:

http://www.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.html

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I don't think

that it would allow them to ban firearms...the way it works is that anything that is NOT named in the Constitution as a right is free to be governed by the states..An example would be drugs and abortion since the Constitution does not explicitly state anything about these issues it is left up to the states to decide. If it is in the Constitution, like the right to bare arms, federal law takes precedent over state law. The founders explicitly (and wisely) left in the right to bare arms as a federal law so that states could not take that power away from its people. It is the right to bare arms that keeps these idiots in check for the most part...used to be like that anyways.

The amendment process is supposed to allow for updates to take place for unforseen events where the federal government should have the power to regulate, but it was made a very difficult process for good reason. Technically, Illinois should never be allowed to take away that right.

The point is, the first section of the 14th amendment should not have even needed to be put into amendment form because what is stated is already implied by the original document.

The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time.
Thomas Jefferson

Where liberty is, there is my country.
Benjamin Franklin

Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
G. Washington

I'll leave that up to those wiser than me but

If adjoining states didn't infringe, would not many freedom loving people move there?

Thanx,

Jason

You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.