A way too bring the religious vote to our side
Submitted by RonPaulRenaissance on Fri, 02/10/2012 - 12:22I came up with an argument the other day while debating a Christian who was a Santorum supporter and I think it could help in bringing some of them over to our side.
God is a Libertarian. He gave us all free will to do as we choose as long as it does not cause harm to others or take their property. He believes in property rights and that all men are created equal and should treat each other as such without separating people into groups with special priveliges. He believes in personal responsibility for our actions and the following consequences of them to allow us to do things that may not be good for us. God believes in the rule of law and that the laws remain just and fair. He does not like when people manipulate money at the expense of others as when Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple. He believes that hard work and a good life will bring happiness to the largest amount of people but realizes that some will fall through the cracks and it is no ones fault but their own. He believes in charity and goodwill towards all people. He does not believe in building empires or conquering nations but rather has a non-interventionist frame of mind that you may fight in self-defense only but that friendship should be your way of thinking. Finally he believes in limited oversight and regulation as there are only 10 rules instead of thousands to follow and he only gets involved when its absolutely necessary.
If you bring up this argument I believe that it will get them thinking at the very least and just may get them to give Dr. Paul a second look.
I had another point brought
I had another point brought out to me by another Ron Paul supporter recently, most christians like Ron Paul and agree with him on most issues but don't believe they agree on the foreign policy (because of the 9-1-1 incident) But these same christians are pro-life, now if they would stop and think how can they be pro-life and pro-war?
Everyone interprets god
Everyone interprets god differently. Christianity especially is written in such a way that you could envision a Jesus that is a communist or a neoconservative, or someone in between.
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Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...
Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a
Just a personal reflection....
I've been trying to describe to my flabbergasted husband what it is that has made me become so passionate about politics and American History in just a short time. Don't get me wrong, he's THRILLED with it (couldn't get me to talk about it at all before, now he can't get me to shut up!! LOL!) but he's trying to understand what "unlocked" it all for me.
The best way I knew how to answer him is this:
When God first laid His hand on my heart through the touch of the Holy Spirit and opened my eyes and ears to His Truth at my conversion, it was as if what seemed totally disjointed, confusing and foreign to me before (Biblical Truth) suddenly came into SHARP clarity and I could SEE the "whole picture" of what God was up to and why. My worldview instantly changed in the blink of an eye. And FROM this new worldview, EVERYTHING now made sense. It became a foundation that I could measure ALL things in my life and the world around me from.
Well, a similar thing happened when I first started listening to Ron Paul. (DO NOT misunderstand me, I am by NO means equating him with God or the Holy Spirit! LOLOL!). When I started to see the world through the lens of Liberty as it is outlined in the Constitution, EVERYTHING about our foundation as a nation AND HOW FAR WE HAD STRAYED FROM IT came into clear focus. It was like it only took two 2 or 3 clicks of the "cogs" to lock into place before the whole mechanism made TOTAL sense to me. NOW I can respond to issues that are brought up and give answers from a framework that I trust.
The one common thread that both frameworks have is TRUTH. The bible, as I believe as a Christian (and KNOW from my personal experience of Him through my conversion) is INSPIRED TRUTH. The Constitution as it was laid out by our founding fathers, I believe is ALSO INSPIRED TRUTH.
And Truth itself has this ring of rightness that you cannot explain unless you experience it. It does not come from my "own understanding" but from somewhere beyond me. It just makes everything MAKE SENSE!!
Ok, so that's my reflective ramblings for today.... :Smile:
Another thing I thought of recently....
"If you truly believe that the occupiers of modern-day Israel are indeed descended from the ancient Hebrews, and are, in fact, "God's Chosen People", then you'll have to trust God to protect them, as he has promised. We cannot possibly protect them better than God can".
BAM!
I've had many conversations with Christians on this subject and that almost always makes the sell. I tell them, I believe the Bible too. I've read the book of Revelation and Israel's still there. So it doesn't matter what Iran does, God doesn't need America's help to keep Israel from getting blown off the face of the map.
shorter way to the same ends
Thou shalt not steal.
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ok can you people see past
ok can you people see past the ridiculous points about the wording of all men created equal and things like that or the fact that he has no political opinion. The point isnt that he has a political point of view it is a metaphor for what the Bible talks about. The entire point of this to compare the teachings of the Bible to the teachings of Libertarianism not that he is literally a member of the party. Can you really deny that free will and equality and peace for all are part of Christianity. Stop trying to debate me and change the words up if you wish this was simply a way to make people think that maybe Ron Paul's beliefs are in line with what the Bible says, you are looking too deep into it
Another talking point
Most Christians who are conservative Republicans seem to agree with the tenants of the Constitution, the hallmark of being a conservative (or at least it USED to be...but I digress).
As a Christian, we also agree with the tenants of the bible..... EVEN WHEN IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE TO DO SO! There are many times on the Christian walk when standing up for the bible is HARD and often times seems to go against what WE think "should be." But it doesn't give us the right to pick and choose what we agree with and only act on those that are "easier" to live by.
The same thing is the case as a citizen of the United States who has pledged their allegiance to adhere to the Constitution as it's governing document. (If one DOESN'T agree, one should not be a US Citizen). And again, one cannot just pick and choose to follow those parts of the constitution they agree with and ignore the rest.
So SINCE the constitution does NOT grant the federal government theauthority to just arbitrarily go into other countries and dictate how they should operate nor can it declare a war on a country WITHOUT the express approval of US citizens (through their representatives in congress) AS WELL AS it ALSO does not give authority to use its citizens money by giving it to other countries as "foreign aid" then they cannot in good conscience support Santorum.
That may feel uncomfortable but as Christian citizens of the US, in order to be of integrity, we are compelled to abide by these tenants regardless.
And that is EXACTLY the kind of integrity Ron Paul has modeled to us for 30 years.
I think it's wonderful that your trying
but this approach would never work. Here's why. 1. "God is a Libertarian." I don't know of anyone who believes in God that would give the Creator of the universe a political title or take kindly to anyone else doing the same. 2. "He believes that all men are created equal." That doesn't make any sense. If He created men, wouldn't He KNOW that all men have the same worth? 3. Jesus didn't throw the moneychangers out of the temple for manipulating money at the expense of others, He threw them out because they were making His Father's house "a den of thieves". Trying to nail a particular political ideology to God and the Bible doesn't work because all Christians don't agree politically. The best way to handle a Christian voter is to find out what that voter considers important and explain to him how Ron Paul best suits that voter's needs and concerns in that area. The reason why using the Bible to prove a political point doesn't work all that well is that the person you're trying to convince might not agree with your interpretation of the Bible.
money changers turning temple
money changers turning temple into a den of thieves sounds kind of like fractional reserve banking. What are we to conclude they were doing with money in the temple?
"He believes that all men are created equal." That doesn't make any sense. If He created men, wouldn't He KNOW that all men have the same worth?
It sounds like you two are saying the same thing so how does that not make sense?
Well obviously
it's a good analogy with the moneychangers and fractional reserve banking. My point was that Jesus didn't run them out of the temple for ripping people off, He threw them out for doing it in the temple. If they had been doing it anywhere else, Jesus would have merely told them to repent and moved on. "He believes that all men are created equal" is kind of like saying Mark Zuckerberg believes Facebook has chat.
This is good
I'm glad someone is bringing this issue up. Our precinct down here in Southern MN is a little island of Ron Paul supporters surrounded by a sea of Santorum. I am an evangelical Christian and I was FLABBERGASTED to see so many in my church (even my neighbors on caucus night) choose Santorum.
The one other issue I have seen is that they erroneously feel that Ron Paul does NOT support Israel. They see his stance to not bomb Iran and also his wanting to pull foreign aid (not just from Israel but everywhere, but they are only concerned with Israel) as anti-Christian and will not support him for this reason. They don't see how this "foreign aid" is used as a manipulating tool for us to try and tell Israel what to do.
They do not understand that our BIBLICAL support for Israel should come from the CHURCH (as in the body of Christ, not the building), NOT our government.
If they understood these things, they would see why Ron Paul is the PERFECT person to support. He wants government OUT of the church's business, he wants our government to quit telling Israel what to do by bribing them with "foreign aid". He is ALL FOR (as a Christian himself) letting the PEOPLE (Church or otherwise) support Israel through charity, missionary work, what have you.
God has stated clearly in the bible where Israel stands and what her future is. A Christian who understands their bible would get that we should not be meddling with that through the use of government influence of ANY kind.
Me, too
I find this same argument from people in my church (and I'm probably not too far from you over here in western Wisconsin). Here are two really good articles by Chuck Baldwin and Dave Daubenmire, respectively, to give them some "food for thought." Both are well-written and spot on: http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin686.htm
http://www.ptsalt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti...
When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object. - Patrick Henry
Wow!
That isn't just a great article (Chuck Baldwin) but an awesome website overall!!
I had seen the "patriots bible" before but prior to 2 months or so ago, I had no interesting understanding our history/heritage as a country.
Now I can't get enough of it.
That's the power of Ron Paul and his message. :) :) :)
EDIT: Just read the 2nd article and WOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!! He says it like it is in no uncertain terms! (but with compassion and integrity!) TOTALLY going to bookmark that one and have handy if needed in a conversation.
THANK YOU FOR THESE LINKS!!
You're Welcome!
Glad you liked them! I keep a lot of stuff bookmarked for just the right time/opportunity to share.
When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object. - Patrick Henry
I don't understand christians
I don't understand christians backing war involving Israel. God has been dealing with Israel for thousands of years, they have been in his blessing and at times just the opposite. God can protect Israel if He choses without our nuclear weapons. Why is Israel called the holyland? Jews aren't Christians, and the holyland is inside of us. Christians need to wake up they are being used like puppets to beat the war drums over a fake cause. A war protecting oil interests and protecting the world reserve currency is some how turned into a holy war. Yes we must be the "savior of Israel" against the jihadist muslims.
Free will.
It's all about free will and taking personal responsibility for the consequences of exercising that free will.
A real matter of the heart.
“The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.” Ron Paul - The Revolution