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Ron Paul Second in Maine with 36%; Only 84% of Vote Counted - Open Thread




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because

we won't win but we're growing stronger. who knows... some day the GOP is ready to be taken over by libertarians? or america is ready for a new freedom party?

GERMANY for LIBERTY !

Disgusting

tonight’s results only represent about 80 percent of Maine’s towns. According to state GOP chairman Charlie Webster

However the gop state leader has just issued a statement that nothing after tonight will count.

This is blatant in your fucking face election fraud!

All this talk about delegates makes me wonder how the GOP is going to change those rules at the last minute.

This cannot and will not be a peaceful revolution.

michigan

Michigan is next, anyone have a line on a large sign?, used is fine. can't seem to get one here. the campaign gave me a box of small signs(should have asked for a pallet i'm out)
any help would be great.
mike_robbel09@yahoo.com

How are you on SuperBrochures and bumper stickers

Let me know; I have a few buttons, too.

drkresearch@hotmail.com

Could use some help

I sure would like some super brochures :) I work at a large plant here in TN ( Eastman Chemical ) & I am all over the plant as a painter. I would like to leave these super brochures EVERYWHERE in the plant. I would say, with confidence, that this tactic would get the attention of an estimated 20,000 people or more !!!! Either by seeing them directly or by word of mouth from those that have seen them.
I, unfortunately, am not in a position monetarily that enables me to purchase though :((((((

danweaver@btes.tv

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Maine doesn't have 3000 RP

Maine doesn't have 3000 RP supporters? Seriously?

Enough

I have neither heard nor seen anything resembling proof that the vote count was tampered with. Without proof you all sound like whining kids at a baseball game calling the umpire biased.

Sure it is possible that there was fraud, but don't immediately assume that is the case. It is a serious allegation and comments like this do nothing but reinforce the media's portrayal that Ron Paul's supporters are too young to be taken seriously.

In addition, consider the changes in vote totals and percentage between Romney and Paul from 2008 to 2012. Romney lost tons of support. Paul gained tons of support. To top it off Maine is basically a dead heat between them, and we know it means we will be getting most of the delegates.

Proof

Well there is proof that the Maine GOP is throwing out the votes of an entire county. The GOP made the decision to postpone all the Washington County caucuses due to snow fall. No other county needed to be postponed. It then used its own decision to postpone the caucuses as the rationale for disenfranchising all the participants in Washington County. The Washington people were essentially told, "you cant vote today; we forbid it, and as a result of our decision your votes wont count at all."

Regardless of whatever rationalizations are given or nice sounding spin bites, that is still a direct, unequivocal manipulation of the vote.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

just look, the evidence is

just look, the evidence is abundant and readily available.

heres some https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?authkey=CKT21ZkH&hl=e...

Google 953 dead people vote.

Google Iowa vote fraud.

Remain Calm & Determined

Regardless of results behave with integrity even as Ron Paul would do, pressing onward. Let Dr Paul and the campaign take the action they deem best. It does no good to act like a victim; that's not Ron Paul's philosophy either.

Sometimes when I see SOME comments here I am persuaded that the people could not be Ron Paul supporters because they behave mean and spiteful, nasty and filled with vitriol. How could they be lovers of freedom and responsibility? They (freedom and responsibility) go hand in hand. Ron Paul deserves supporters that keep on working without complaint!

Of course it hurts when we thought Maine would be Ron Paul's win tonight! The opposition win twice when they see people badmouthing and blaming the GOP and the MSM and the other candidates. Hurting is no excuse for acting like spoiled children. Never give up working for our President Paul.

Gwen Kraft

"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

Badmouthing ??

The establishment, whether rep or dem is a heaping pile of horse sh*t. The ONLY reason that I am a rep (at the moment) is because Dr Paul is running under that banner. I believe that the only reason that he is running under the rep banner is because our "democratic republic" is SOOOOOOOOOO far from actually being so, that it is COMPLETELY impossible for a third party to get ANY attention, let alone get on the ballots !!!!!
Entirely TOO MANY people have this same attitude of "just grin & bear it". Maybe it's because of the water fluoridation??

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis

I'm Not Republican Either

I'm an Independent and have to re-register Republican I believe this year again, like I did in 2008 to vote for Paul... unless California changed the requirement and I can vote for anyone regardless of my registration.

By "badmouthing" I was referring to the few people that instead of registering valid concern or even valid "complaint" they were resorting to name calling. How does name calling and complaining in general help? I don't think it does. But then, maybe I expect too much from the Paul campaign, assuming they do have someone tracking the stats and the questionable events?

Gwen Kraft

"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

Respectfully, don't tell me what to do.

The franchise is important. I protect the franchise. If you have a substantial point or data that answers the fraud charge or 'irregularities' by all means bring it. Otherwise, I don't see how a scolding is constructive. Voters have a right to know and should address these matters. We learn in the process.

We're talking about a felony you realize? Ask how Indiana's Sec. of State feels about the conviction last week on 6 counts.

I semi agree

I think you are right that we might be too quick to assume fraud. But you have to admit, circumstances are pretty shady. Even a guy like me that doesn't like to accuse people is getting suspicious.

Even if there's no voter fraud, we should atleast have a counter measure against it. At the very least, we should rule it out as an option so we could focus our efforts on real problems.

Not sure what is going on

Guys, The results from watchthevote2012 says Dr. paul got 262 votes from androscoggin county but mainegop is reporting 212.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?authkey=CKT21ZkH&hl=e...

http://www.mainegop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/me_gop_ca.... what is wrong here?
http://www.mainegop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/me_gop_ca...

What is going on?

Not the only problem I've seen

I saw a member on the boards reporting different numbers in New Gloucester.

Can we get some confirmation on any of this?

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Ron Paul fired back at them in the speech

Did you notice?

The "funny money" monetary system is dead is what he said. That was the most direct shot I've seen him take. The embedded message is "it doesn't matter that you rigged the votes you are supporting a dying system"

Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. - Ben Franklin

According to your spreadsheet

he has won every county that has been reported except one and Romney won that by 1 vote.

Edit:made a mistake... Romney won 3 but less than 20 votes I think with all 3 combined. Meanwhile sweeping the majority of the rest.. Looks like Dr.Paul won it.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

town/county breakdown

http://www.mainegop.com/2012/02/mitt-romney-wins-maine-caucus/

Looks like some counties are all zeros. Ron looks like he won a few but Google map is all yellow for Romney.

Keep perspective people

Folks, we need to keep perspective here.

First, it sure would have been nice for a Ron Paul first place. It is disappointing. But in the larger context, whether he came in first or second is meaningless.

Maine's delegates are unbound delegates. What is important is the election of delegates at the caucuses, which has always been the focus of the Paul campaign.

This is a distinction that has never really meant much, but with the likelihood of an open convention increasing every day, it could make a huge difference.

Also, it is one thing to put Paul supportes in delegate positions where they are bound to vote based on the popular vote. At that point, the benefit only accrues if the convention goes open, and beyond the first vote. But to elect Paul supporters as unbound delegates is as good as winning the state.

Let's keep in mind that there are 521 unbound delegates in this nominating process, 45% of the total needed to win the nomination.

While it would certainly be beneficial and uplifting to have the good doctor actually win one of these, it is not necessary.

Understand also the forces that are arrayed against Dr Paul. The entire Republican establishment is doing EVERYTHING they can to keep him from winning: moving caucus locations without telling anyone, trying to find 'security' reasons to barr Paul supporters from events, actual vote fraud.

Dr Paul is doing much better than any of us could have hoped. We need to soldier on, become delegates, and prepare for the real war, which will be OUR war, not Dr Pauls...the State Conventions...

...The State Conventions will be where the battle takes place, and it is going to be bloody (figuratively speaking, of course:)

We will have the numbers, and they will have the system. We need to learn the rules, and learn them well. Otherwise, we will wake up in the morning, and wonder why it hurts to sit down...

CW

They'll sabotage us

with the delegates as well. Be foolish not to believe that they will simply allow us to employ that strategy without doing anything about it.

Knowing the rules isn't enough. Cause they'll simply change them to their liking. If there's enough of a divide between the popular vote and the amount of delegates (and I believe that divide may well be the largest in history), they'll make an issue of it and contest his delegates.

So don't console yourselves too much with the delegate strategy. You should be thinking about counter measures and not rest on your laurels and believe the delegate strategy is the end solution to everything.

More and More BS Misinformation (again)

So much misinformation everywhere. Neither RP's campaign or any of his supporters who know what is going on are only relying on the "delegate strategy". Do people seriously believe we don't want the popular vote? They are trying to get as much popular vote as possible.

This so-called "delegate strategy" (implying it's some secret optional strategy that only RP's campaign is using) is the only strategy. It's not a secret to the other campaigns. It's not an alternate strategy. It's not optional. It is THE strategy of every campaign. It is the strategy that everything else including the popular vote is working towards. It has always been this way.

Then there is the idea that even if RP ends up getting the most delegates, they will simply change the rules. If they do try to change the rules, how are they going to do it if RP has the most delegates? The delegates are the ones that change the rules. At any point in which one candidate gets 50% + 1 delegate, they own the rules. Not only can they pick RP as the nominee, but they can change all the rules to make it more fair and easier for our side in the future.

The idea put forward above is that even if he wins, he is not going to win. If that's the case, how do you think popular vote would be any different? So what is really being said here, is to give up now, he can't win. This is nothing but BS, put forward by either people who don't want him to win, or don't understand the system and shouldn't be giving advice until they do.

At this time, less than 4% of the total delegates are actually selected and bound, and Romney only has 5% of the delegates needed to win the nomination. So far most of the state contests have been caucuses. The most important and only relevant thing in regards to them is to get delegates. The popular polls they have are only meaningful in that they help give momentum and help raise funds. Sure it is helpful to win them, but it's more important to make sure you get enough delegates to stay in the race. You don't even need to get the most delegates, just enough to prevent the other candidates from getting enough to end the race.

Every day RP gets more and more supporters, and the more supporters, the more funds and more people spreading the word about him. The more truth people find out about RP, the more they like him. The more they find out about the other candidates, the more they despise them. It's only a matter of time till they all convert. You see a Romney supporter, I see a future Ron Paul supporter. Once the primaries start up in March, then the popular vote will matter. By that time, with Ron Paul's inevitable rise in support, not only will he be "dangerous", but he will be unstoppable too.

Even in the states that have already had a caucus and have chosen delegates to go their county/district conventions in a month or so, the game is not over. Because the popular vote in these states is completely irrelevant to the delegate selection process, RP and his supporters could very well and likely have taken the majority of the low level delegate spots which will eventually go on to choose the real national delegates in the next few months. Let's assume Ricky managed to temporarily fool enough people into getting 50% of the precinct level delegates in some of the recent states. How long do you think it will be before the true Ricky starts making himself known? How many of these supporters is he going to lose after the fact. They are not bound to him and have every right to change their minds and support RP delegates at the next level instead of Ricky.

People will say "but that doesn't seem fair and people will rise up against it". Who? The ones that had their caucuses early and want to influence the election before 95% of the people even had a chance to vote yet? There is a very good reason that these smaller population states are allowed to have their contests so much earlier than the rest of the states. It's because of the fact that they have so very few delegates and are only permitted to do so because their delegates are not bound to any candidates yet. These states willingly choose to sacrifice the meaningfulness of their popular vote in order to have their contest earlier so they don't get completely ignored by the candidates who would no doubt be too busy in the more populated states. Surprisingly even to me, this system seems to be the fairest overall. The only issue this primary, is that one of the highest populated states in the country foolishly and greedily decided to put their winner takes all, bound delegate primary in January. Don't get me wrong, I love the state of Florida, but this was total and complete BS, and they should have been penalized for both of their violations instead of just one. The people of Florida should be pissed that they lost 49 of their delegates and that half the candidates never even bothered to campaign there.

Who is consoling themselves?

I took part in the delegate process last time around, and it was pathetic. I'm saying that this will be a nasty fight, and we won't necessarily win because they will try every dirty trick in the book, and then invent two more.

I have been involved in local Republican politics for years, and let me tell you, THEY ARE SCARED TO DEATH.

That's right, they are scared. They know we have the numbers. They have familiarity with the system, and they crammed it down our throats 4 years ago. Maybe they'll do it again this year, but I think it won't be so easy.

"You should be thinking about counter measures and not rest on your laurels and believe the delegate strategy is the end solution to everything."

The 'delegate strategy' as you refer to it is not some hairebrained idea about how to pull one over on them. It is how the system works. You have the delegates, you can win. Period. Why do you think they are so scared??

I'm under no illusions about what we are up against. We will likely lose. But who really loses?

I'm voting for the candidate I want to win...period. If we all stick to our guns, the Republican party beats us, and then the Republican party can stick it in its ass. They will lose, and lose big.

The Republican Party is dying. I don't know about where you live, but in my locale, I'm one of the youngest, and I'm 45. The party is dying, and I'd love nothing more than to stick the knife in and give it a twist.

So rest assured, I'm not 'consoling' myself about anything. I WILL TRY TO WIN!!

But even if I lose, I still win, because my conscience is clear. Even if Ron Paul wins, I actually think that this country is too far gone to save.

Peace all!! Go RP2012!!

CW

I fully agree with you and

I fully agree with you and imma still vote with principles as RP has for 30 years and maintain the fight as I have the whole elecion. But admittedly fighting for so long with out a palpable win is frustrating.

Thank You

jonat for finally saying it.

We have been muzzled into whispering about fraud when its up close and in our face.

good post....

good post....

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

Election fraud and tricks against RP.

What are some of the tactics used?

Switch the times

Switch the locations

Move up caucuses to LDS states.

Not counting write in votes.

A RON PAUL VOTER NEVER FORGETS. The RNC better be careful. Dr. Paul should put them on their toes and hint at switching 3rd party. That will put them on edge.

Others

Adjourning the caucus, then switching to another location to elect delegates
Convening 'special' caucuses without proper notification
Using 'inclement weather' to discourage or discount caucuses
'Losing', under-counting/over-counting or counting secretly the totals away from public
Lying outright regarding open or closed primaries
Verbal memos like "don't elect any delegates under 40, they support RP."

I could go on.

Right

Who has ever heard of an election postponed because of weather?

Isn't that what some candidates pray for?

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

They challenged delegates

After they sent letters chanllenging the delegates many of them didn't show up to the state and they kept their majority.