Best Jefferson quote EVER. America needs to hold Consitutional Convention.
Submitted by Shamus_McMises on Sat, 02/11/2012 - 02:50“…Then I say the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully, and in their own right. The 2nd generation receives it clear of the debts and encumbrances of the 1st, the 3rd, of the 2nd and so on. For if the 1st could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not the living generation. Then no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence. The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished them, in their natural course, with those whose will gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself and no longer. Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right. It may be said that the succeeding generation exercising in fact the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law had been expressly limited to 19 years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent…” -Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson’s predictions were quite profound and we have many years of proof as testimony to their accuracy. We now find ourselves beholden to the dead, our constitutional principles have for all practical purposes expired. The only way to salvage the greatness of our nation and convey liberty to generations unborn is to revive American enlightenment and hold a constitutional convention. Those that oppose a convention raise the concern that it would only hasten the erosion of the constitutional limitations which still remain and occasionally accomplish their purpose. Such apprehensions are well intended, but do not fully appreciate the toothless state in which we now find our constitution. The feeble condition of our liberties leaves us susceptible to despotism in times of national hardship. We must take into account that we currently find ourselves in state of war, undeclared, against a tactic, and it has been asserted that speech can be used to encompass American citizens into the ranks of enemy combatants. The debt of the federal government has surpassed our gross domestic product and unfunded liabilities in our federal entitlements have reached over sixty one trillion dollars; more than four times our gross domestic product. Monetary mismanagement is rapidly drawing us nearer to an unavoidable economic implosion, which will give opportunity to those whose positions would benefit from chaos.
The modern generations of America’s youth are coming of age in a time when their rights and economic growth are stunted by insurmountable debts placed upon their shoulders through political decisions which were debated upon well before their conception. Institutions were formed and the efforts of the unborn were leveraged to compensate redistribution efforts of which they will see no benefit. It is true that a nation can no better remember its infancy than can a man. The man must be reminded by an observer of the events that occurred in those initial moments of existence. Americans do not seem to recall the bloody sacrifices of their ancestors to gain autonomy from a monarch that would look with an envious eye toward the powers that today are willingly traded to government for security.
It truly is time that we understand the absolutely incredible era we live in as we begin the revival of our founding philosophies. We need to realize that we have the most complete look at freedom of any persons in history. The philosophies that will come from our generation will be the most important strides in peace and liberty in all of human history. We have been able to witness precisely where people are most vulnerable to encroachments upon their liberties. We understand now what limits must be enhanced to ensure the continuation of a constitutionally limited Republic. Even if our we fail to reinvigorate the greatness of our own nation, please imagine what our teachings might accomplish for the good of future nations.
The Earth Belongs to the Living
That was an excerpt from Thomas Jefferson's 1789 letter to James Madison.
Here is the link:
http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/lit/jeff03.htm
I enjoy reading this letter because it is so relevant to our debt problems today. I think it is interesting how specific he is with numbers and calculations throughout the letter too. The paragraph I like the best seems similar to the one you quoted.
"On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a
perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. They are masters too of their own persons, and consequently may govern them as they please. But persons and property make the sum of the objects of government. The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished them, in their natural course, with those whose will gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19. years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right."
Nothing but convention...
...would fix the problems with our nation. Those of you that said things could get worse than they are now, well they will. The constitutional limits to authority have been being eroded since its ratification. No movement will be capable of stopping governmental encroachment without changing the constitution. Our movement will never be able to get more support than about thirty percent of the population. Much of the support that we have now could easily be wiped clean with any attack or event that could scare people into reaching for government. So to miss our opportunity could prove fatal for the liberties of our children.
How do we think that government continued to get bloated after the Barry Goldwater movement and through the Reagan years?
Because nothing was done to mend the gaps in protections that had been taken advantage of for two centuries. If we just repeal the laws and regulations that are causing us problems now then we have only treated a symptom of a flawed system that allowed for the laws and regs the first place. Future ambitious leaders will use the same vulnerabilities that have been taken advantage of in the past and nothing will change.
If the establisment could just come in and wipe our liberties away with force they would have already. But they are very near being completely away with all of them as it stands. In a single year you can find at least one example (usually many of examples) of every single amendment in the bill of rights being broken by government.
I understand the concerns of those that would believe the establishment to be too strong to allow us to get away with a successful convention. We just need to remember that the masses always hold the power and people naturally long for freedom; even if they do not understand that there are people that would like nothing more than to take it away.
Time to remind people
The constitution does almost nothing now. Since 1937 only one law was found to be unconstitutional. The constitution could not become more toothless than it is now. Please take a second to reflect on the fact that even though little remains of our constitutionally confined republic, the philosophies of liberty have progressed and combined with an economic philosophy that could bring humanity into an age that has never even been dreamed of. People would inevitably come to the defense of each and every amendment in the bill of rights with money and representation just as they do with the 2nd amendment now so people grossly under estimate how difficult it would be to take people's rights away should a convention be called for.
To say that the constitution is perfect is a little bit naive given the current state of affairs. It is certainly the most compitent governing document in history, but history has seen little in the way of free societies. Our movement is growing and we need to continue to put out pamphlets and educate. Most importantly we need to take advantage of the fact that we still have any avenues to advance our principles because history tells us that it wont last forever.
A Constitutional Convention is a BAD idea
Want to see exactly how corrupt most Americans and their politicians are? Let them rework the Constitution.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
Final Constitution!
These value destroyers or neo-cheators you speek of only exist to extract unearned values from value creators suffering from the irrationality disease of mysticism and mind created realitys.
They plant and manipulate mysticism to extract unearned values.
Evolving out of our mystical/irrational state will neautrilize the value destroyers effect, and render them null and void.
Severe survival presure will force us to evolve, but the pain can be reduced if we will choose fully integrated honesty and wide scope accountability, and act accordingly before the collapse of the anticivilization takes most of us with it.
Ron Paul is using the microphone/bully pulpit honestly, unlike most who currently have the microphone. We all have to do the same and awaken our brothers and sisters to the path towards the civilization of the universe.
Suggested final amendment to the constitution:
"The Constitution of the Universe.
The purpose of concious life is to live creatively, happily, eternally.
The function of government is to provide the conditions that let individuals fulfill that purpose.
The Constitution guarantees those conditions by forbidding the use of initiatory force, fraud, or coercion by any person or group against any individual, property, or contract.
Article 1
No person, group of persons, or government shall initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against any individual's self, property, or contract.
Article 2
Force is morally-and-legally justified only for protection from those who violate Article 1.
Article 3
No exceptions shall exist for Articles 1 and 2."
-Frank R. Wallace
Any other provisions not consistant with the final amendment are null and void.
The creation, production and fair exchange of values is the business of evolving consciousness, love and life.--Craig Johnson
HUH????
I repeat... Huh?????
Read!
Read it over again!
The creation, production and fair exchange of values is the business of evolving consciousness, love and life.--Craig Johnson
Constitutional Convention?
Why would we try to rewrite the greatest political document ever conceived?
First let's repeal Obamacare and cut the deficit, but I think I'll pass on modifying the constitution.
at this point and time where
at this point and time where over 50% of the American people are on the welfare dole, the last thig you want is a CON CON. Once you open this up you will see your second and 1st ammendments gone. No reason to have a CON CON, just enforce the Constitution.
"Ineptocracy: a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confisc
My sentiments exactly which
My sentiments exactly which is why I expressly disavow any responsibility for the debts of the United States or any state.
According to Numbers 5:11, abortions are supposed to be performed by priests, not doctors.
אני מקלל אותך עברית כי אתה לא שווה את המאמץ לקלל באנגלית
Again, this is why people are
Again, this is why people are fools to be Constitutionalists. The Constitution was the greatest centralization of power in this nation's history. It was financed by banking interests to gain centralized monetary control under a push that came about through individual state monetary crises. Many states had far more liberal Constitutions of their own under the AOC. Every argument and fear of the anti-federalists has come true. Listen to Ron Paul carefully and do your own research and you will find out he isn't a Constitutionalist at all, he is a voluntarist who is trying to work within the system.
Jefferson was naive to believe that, once in place, that much centralized power would be able to be overturned every generation.
Now you are seeing many nations having monetary crises and the call will be for a worldwide centralization of power. That people here will rail against not realizing they are complete hypocrites.
But as usual, knee jerk reactionaries here who think just as little as any neocon or liberal will vote this post down. And that my friends, is why we go nowhere.
"In reality, the Constitution itself is incapable of achieving what we would like in limiting government power, no matter how well written."
~ Ron Paul, End the Fed
Interview with Paul Antinori on a Con-Con
An activist trail lawyer explains this process and how it has become perverted through clauses such as the commerce clause. Although, I haven't researched his work throughly or advocate this as the answer - I found this interview quite interesting.
To listen go to: http://www.gcnlive.com/programs/joshTolley/archives.php
Feb 1, 2012 Hours 1 & 2
Also, Tom Woods covered info on these clauses in his book "Nullification".
My favorite Quote:
"I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ~ Thomas Jefferson
This is a very eloquent post
As an alternative: Why not the states hold a grass-roots convention for the downsizing of the federal government to back within the limits of the Constitution.
There amendments could be passed clarifying things such as the second amendment and putting the gun-control farce to bed...as well as some worthless amendments be repealed...such as the 16th?
~Chris
Norfolk, VA
.. not until we have a couple
.. not until we have a couple elections of liberty minded people getting into the state gov'ts.
"You must be frank with the world; frankness is the child of honesty and courage...Never do anything wrong to make a friend or keep one...Above all do not appear to others what you are not" - Robert E. Lee, CSA
A Constitutional Convention
A Constitutional Convention would be the death knell of America. Do you really want the bozos in power today rewriting our founding documents? Its bad enough they ignore the law. What kind of country would we be if they rewrote it to support their totalitarian beliefs?
Blessings )o(
A constitutional convention could be the death of America
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/3610-who-n...
"But what if a constitutional convention started going the way of the big-government mavens and became a so-called “runaway” convention and the big-government acolytes introduced a multi-part amendment of their own that undid the few protections provided by the Constitution that are still enforced? This could even be done in the name of “democracy”; consider how the checks and balances the Founding Fathers carefully crafted into the Constitution are now besmirched as “gridlock.” What happens then? The “Article V convention now” crowd suggests that this would not happen because there are built-in safeguards, but that is naïve in the extreme."
If you don't think that this is the reason the powers that be want a Con-Con you are all naive.They would gut it and you think were we are now is bad? at least we have the opportunity to restore it at this point.
http://thereal2012delegatecount.com/
http://tinyurl.com/clbmbn2
“[The] RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose.”
~Jennifer H. Sheehan
Let's not tear down our last wall of defense
and the last document that represents true freedom on this planet. I don't care what arrangement of words you write on a piece of paper, if you don't have people willing to fight to preserve Liberty, it might as well be a placemat. Our current constitution is not the problem. Our current generation who would exchange hard-won freedom for a little security from a manufactured threat is the problem. I agree with the poster below. If a constitutional convention was held tomorrow, we are the LAST people they'd invite.
Last Document?
I would argue that the Bible is our absolutely *last* document defending freedom. The Constitution could be gotten rid of, but the Bible would still be there, peddling these principles (as well as the Gospel of Jesus Christ). It's interesting that in Socialist and Totalitarian states, the Bible is always outlawed. It's a dangerous book to those who lust for power. It first suggests that there is a higher power than our earthly rulers. It second suggests that our earthly rulers are accountable to that higher power.
Our founders operated in a Christian framework. Yes, a lot of them did some very un-Christian things (I'm looking at you, Ben Franklin), but their fundamental ideals and beliefs were informed by a careful study of Scripture, not this self-ish "look, I'm right!" interpretive methods which pass for theology today. Have some faith, not in the Constitution, but in the Creator who instilled natural rights, a God who just so happened to have written a book.
You're right on
I was just referring to man made documents and constitutions in general. That's precisely why our Constitution is so good, because it does affirm that rights come from God, not man, and that all men are created equal in His eyes, and that His is the greatest judgement, not that of some earthly king. I fear any rewrite of the Constitution would almost certainly discard those principles of the supremacy of God, the tolerance of religion, and the equality of humans. Because, as you said, the Bible is a dangerous set of ideas if you're trying to be a dictator.
Agreed
The problem is not the constitution. The problem is a population who is so far removed from the ideas undergirding the constitution that we cannot fully comprehend its meaning or intent anymore.
As Ron Paul consistently reminds us about legislation, government is inherently descriptive, not prescriptive. Our governmental problems are perhaps a symptom of much deeper issues.
First an admission:
I am not actually qualified to have a say in this since I am not an American.
However it is an important issue and one that the globalists have spoken on. They believe that the Constitution has outlived its purpose and should be replaced. That is one side.
Another side is that the principles enunciated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution for the united States (the original name of the Constitution) are indeed PRINCIPLES i.e. FIRST THINGS "fundamental, primary, or general laws or truths from which others are derived" and not subject to change. They may be APPLIED in different ways in different circumstances and ages but they themselves retain their meaning and power.
Yet another side is that Amendments have been passed since the first Constitution came into effect and some of these Amendments although although partaking of the authority of the Constitution did and do in fact break with the original principles and are therefore in that sense UNConstitutional (the 16th. and 17th. spring to mind and even the 14th. in some of its aspects).
So this leaves the People in something of a quandary as to how to go about making the changes necessary. There are I am sure more competent Constitutional scholars than I so let me just say, as I have said elsewhere, there may be a solution at hand if indeed the history of the Constitution is as I have read in a number of locations. This history is available at this website:
http://dev.republicoftheunitedstates.org/what-is-the-republi...
This would appear to indicate that the original Constitution up to and including the 15th. Amendment was set aside in 1871 yet is still in existence de jure. It has been revived for the Republic for the united States in form and substance and simply requires the support of the People to be brought back as the supreme law of the united States.
When Ron Paul is elected to the Presidency I like to imagine that this original Constitution might be fully restored and that all those Amendments that conflict with the principles of the original might be declared null and void immediately and steps taken to change the laws of the nation accordingly.
This would mean the abolition of the Federal income tax and the collateral ending of the Federal Reserve for the support of which institution the income tax was created. Senators would be appointed by State legislatures and thereby powers would be effectively transferred back to the States. Those are just two things I can think of that would change and have a marked effect on how the nation's business is conducted.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
David,
the so-called "Reconstruction" Amendments, which are the 14th and 15th Amendments were not lawfully passed. The Southern states were under military occupation after the War of Northern Aggression, and the "representatives" were military occupiers who were voting as puppets for the Federal Gov't.
I personally do not recognize any Amendment after the 13th Amendment, as valid Amendments to the Constitution.
And even the 13th Amendment is questionable, since there is some evidence that the REAL 13th Amendment was actually about banning lawyers from serving in gov't.(See "missing 13th Amendment")
However, I'm not opposed to the Amendment banning involuntary servitude, whichever number that is really supposed to be.
I would recommend, and support, efforts to repeal any or all Amendments that came after the 13th Amendment.
Apply for citizenship
David, you should become an American citizen. You already know more about our Constitution than 90% of those who are American citizens. Thanks for your input.
I prefer this one
God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
My quick thoughts
First of all, thanks for the time and effort you clearly put into this post.
"It is true that a nation can no better remember its infancy than can a man." I FELT that one. Quote of the day. Pass the collection plate.
As for your suggestion of a Constitutional Convention, I'm wary of it because the one we have now is still pretty good (after all, we are trying to go back to it), and it seems like it would become too easy to amend the constitution according to the current-day political whims. (Not like the current one is all-powerful, but it is the original and only one, which carries a lot of authoritative weight compared to, say, version 4.7.)
Having one and only one seems like an architype of what government should always have been, especially bearing in mind that it was inspired in the wake of breaking from monarchy. The central issue of liberty was front and center. But what would be front and center in today's culture? Honesty? What would happen if the constitutional convention occurred during a vulnerable time like 9/11? That would undoubtedly shape the new version. So the issue might've been Safety? Fair enough, but I'm thinking a constant renewal of the constitution would begin a drifting process and less legitimacy for the original version since it would be one of many.
I am one of the co-founders of the Christian game design studio Renewal Corporation. For our philosophy and upcoming product updates, please see our blog: http://renewalcorp.blogspot.com
While I sympathise
with your sentiments I believe there is another way. If you read my post above I have described there what I think MAY be possible.
The hesitation I have with a Constitutional Convention is caused by my belief that the intellectual and spiritual condition of the People at this time is morally degraded from the time when the first Constitution (leaving aside the Articles of CONfederation) was written and agreed to.
The forces of reaction (as represented in 1787-1792 by Alexander Hamilton and his cabal) have grown much more powerful and influential to the extent that they could easily influence the outcome of any Constitutional Convention in their favour, to the detriment of the nation. The alternative may answer your concerns about the accretions that the Constitution has collected over time and which are not in keeping with the principles of the founding documents of your country.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
Quick history lesson.
Actually the Constitution is the second constitution of the United States of America. The first constitution of the United State was called the Articles of Confederation. It was replaced by our second constitution entitled the "Constitution". A constitutional convention is not risky, it is actually necessary since it is like pushing a reset button to clear out all the garbage attached to the current constitution the "Constitution".
grant
I did mention The Articles
of Con-federation if you check my post. I left them aside since they were for a CONFEDERATION not a Federation so it was quite a different constitution where the States were much more independent and the Union was a great deal less stable.
In my opinion the Constitution for the united States of America is a work of genius and it is a great pity that it has been undermined so greatly by the powerful classes of America for their own benefit. You must obviously know about the conflict between the Jefferson faction and the Hamilton faction.
I believe there is no doubt that the Hamiltonians (the bankers) have won that war and the Ron Paul revolution is attempting to rectify the situation by returning the country to the true principles of Jefferson and Madison who founded the original Republican Party. The later GOP of Lincoln was actually in my view a rebirth of the Federalists through the Whigs which is why it is so confused about its identity.
We shall have to agree to disagree on the question of a Constitutional Convention at this time in history. I believe the People are just not sufficiently informed of their history nor politically engaged enough and the Convention could so easily be hijacked by the globalists to foist their internationalist excrescence on the country.
Yes I believe that there are some Amendments that are simply UNConstitutional and should be dispensed with but there are other mechanisms to do that and the one I mentioned, moving to the de jure Constitution that was set aside in 1871, might work.
"Where the Welfare State is on the march the Police State is not far behind."
Melchior Palyi Hungarian Economist
"The only way to salvage the
"The only way to salvage the greatness of our nation and convey liberty to generations unborn is to revive American enlightenment and hold a constitutional convention."
F*ck no. With all due respect, you are crazy. Who do you think would draft a new constitution, anyway? Hint: Not us.
For an idea of what opening up that can of worms would result in, see here: http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/concon/newstates.htm
Or read the UN Declaration of Human Rights.
Hint 2: Notice the difference -- the huge, gaping difference -- between the assumptions of the U.S. Constitution and these documents?
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
Agreed
I am constantly nonplused at all this continual talk of a Constitutional Convention. After all, we're already disregarding the Constitution we already have, so why open up an entirely new can of worms with people that have already shown themselves to be consistently untrustworthy? The problem comes not from lack of pertinent laws (constitution), but a lack of people of integrity to enforce them. The more constitutional scholars that come to the forefront (like Ron Paul) to run for office, the greater chance we will have of doing something productive instead of continuing down the destructive path we've been on. Who among us can imagine that a Constitutional Convention would change anything? I mean really. The wrangling and yapping would be endless and the whole time the country would continue right down the tubes as it is now. It would just be a huge distraction and accomplish nothing good.