-46 votes

Time to end Republican campaign and get third party movement underway?

Because of the incapability of the Republican Establishment to engage in fair play, and (I hate to say it) the resulting near-impossibility of Dr. Paul securing the Republican nomination,I suggest he begin to sow the seeds of a third-party run.

But until then, and with the lull of a couple weeks in the primaries, Dr. Paul should now name his running mate(Judge Napalitano, Pat Buchanan, Walter Jones) and perhaps even persons for cabinet positions. All these people should sent out into Michigan and Arizona to build support in all regions of those states.

If, however, the results of those efforts are disappointing, then Dr. Paul should breakaway from the shackles that the Republican party has put on him and go after votes as an independent conservative--as James Buckley did in New York when he challenged Senator Charles Goodell the incumbent liberal "Republican" who was actually endorsed by the Republican Party. As many of you know, Buckley without the regular Republican endorsement, and on the Conservative party ticket, won the seat narrowly. Also we have the more recent example of Ross Perot running as an independent, being admitted to the debates, and winning 20% of the vote in the three way race.

Getting to speak at the Republican Convention, which seems at times to be the goal of the campaign would be a wholly-inadequate and almost meaningless certainly not even a pyrrhic victory that would soon lapse into forgotten history.

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How many signatures is reasonable to require?

A Canadian can get on the ballot to run against the prime minister in a general election with 20 signatures.

Paul can win with 44 million pre-pledges

After the convention, Ron Paul, even they cheap him out of the nomination, could easily win the "Americans Elect" ballot line, unless they cheat there, too. He's already ahead by far on their Web page. Then if we get pledges from 44 million voters (1/3 of the likely electorate), we can overcome the mainstream media and overcome peoples' fear of "losing" their votes. That's the "wasted vote syndrome", which fuels the Duopoly. Then the voters will feel confident enough to vote for Ron Paul because his chances of winning are excellent. How do we get 44 million pledges? The Internet. Maybe using pledgebank.org or something similar set up by the Ron Paul campaign.

More about those 44 million pledges

We can over-come lesser-of-2-evils this year!

I think that if Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) doesn’t win an upset victory for the Republican nomination, there’s no point at all in voting for the Republican or Democratic presidential tickets this year.

I'm a Green Party activist who wants the anti-2-party Ron Paul to shake things up as the Republican nominee. Right now that looks unlikely, though. We need a back-up plan.

In the short and long runs, are we stuck with the lesser-of-2-evils? Our remedy must include proportional representation (pro-rep), as supported by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), the national popular vote for president, and a ranked ballot for president.

In the meantime, though, there is at least one Web service now which offers "pledging": www.PledgeBank.com .
Or we could site a pledge drive elsewhere.

Here's my latest draft for the text for a pledge drive, to be published and started if and when it becomes impossible for Ron Paul to win the Republican nomination:

"Being eligible to vote in the 2012 general election USA, I pledge to vote for a president and vice president other than the Republican or Democratic tickets--if one-third or more of likely voters pledge likewise, assuming that to be 44 million."

The likely turn-out might be 131.3 million (63% of eligible voters in 2008) if it's the same as 2008. Probably it would be less, since we have an incumbent -- and have no new non-Whites or women in the lead. However, let's be cautious and assume it will be the same turn-out.
One-third of that turn-out would be 43,766,667 --rounded up to 44 million.
With that one-third guaranteed by pledges before the election, the public would see the Duopoly (the Democratic and Republican parties' stranglehold on the government) as quite beatable, as they did before Ross Perot quit the contest in mid-race in 1992.

"Exit polls revealed that 35% of voters would have voted for Perot if they believed he could win. Contemporary analysis reveals that Perot could have won the election if the polls prior to the election had shown the candidate with a larger share, preventing the wasted vote mindset." --Wikipedia article "Ross Perot presidential campaign, 1992", 2012 March 30.

Free of the lesser-evilism mindset, the voters would flock to an alternative. The public hates that Duopoly trap and has been yearning for a way out for 2 centuries. This is an escape hatch.

The exploding popularity of such a pledge drive would force everyone to pay attention.
Then voters could coalesce around one anti-Duopoly ticket with an Internet ranked-ballot vote.
That might be the "Americans Elect" winners, if their process does not betray its stated principles. As of March 30, Paul and Kucinich are first and 10th in the ranking for AE draft candidates for president. AE rules state that the ticket cannot include 2 candidates of the same party. The USA Constitution bans 2 candidates from the same state.

Possible winners:
-- A split ticket of Ron Paul (Republican-Texas) and Dennis Kucinich (Democrat-Ohio) for president and vice president.
-- The Green Party.
-- The Libertarian Party.
-- Other parties, such as the Socialist Party.

The Duopoly would lose.

The above pledge would apply at the national level.
We could start state pledges, too, for senate, governor, etc.

Sure, a few people would chicken out and betray their pledge, but they’d be more than replaced by late-comers and bandwagon-jumpers.

Ron Paul is reputed to get along well personally with Dennis Kucinich.
Maybe they would agree to defeat the Duopoly by running as a team for president and vice president. They could limit their platform for the following 4 years to everything on which they can agree, which would be a huge heap of work by itself!
They also could agree to post-pone major proposals to Congress on their points of disagreement (until the subsequent 4-year term).
They also could agree not to veto legislation that one of them supports.
Thus, they would eliminate their "negatives" in most voters' minds.

Paul and Kucinich already agree, I think, to:
--Hold fair elections, for a change.
--End the unconstitutional, imperialist wars now.
--Greatly reduce the military budget.
--Charge the 1% thieves on Wall Street.
--Nationalize the Federal Reserve.
--Restore civil liberties.
--End discrimination by race, sex, class, sexual orientation, etc.
--Obey the Constitution (amending it as needed).
--End the war on drug users.
--End pork-barreling.
--De-throne the lobbyists, etc.

How about it, folks?
Can anybody improve on that strategy of a pledge drive?
It’s worth a try, don’t you think? It's free! Nothing to lose!

See Center for Voting and Democracy www.fairvote.org
Pledge Bank www.PledgeBank.com
Americans Elect www.americanselect.org

Korky Day www.korky.ca

The Old Guard is... Old

In the fantastic situation of Ron Paul running third party and winning the most electors, remember he would have to win the MAJORITY (50%+) of the electors, otherwise the House of Representatives would pick the President, and the Senate would pick the Vice President.

The House picks the president with one vote per state:
33 of the 50 states have a majority of Republican congressmen.
16 have a majority of Democrats.
1 (Minnesota) is tied.

The Republican nominee would win the presidency with 66% of the state vote, as I don't believe the Republican establishment would sudden go for an Independent Ron Paul just because the people chose him.

The Senate has a Democratic majority.

So what would we have... a Romney-Biden presidency?

Granted, the long term effects of this situation of Ron Paul getting a plurality of electoral votes would be phenomenal. His message would have the biggest audience and the movement would have its biggest boost so far. But I can't see it making him president.

Because of the Constitutional requirement of over 50% of the electoral vote, I don't see an end to the Republican-Democratic duopoly. I'm in favor of the working from within the Republican party idea. Ron Paul has created a enthusiastic and lasting libertarian base. He has sparked a paradigm shift that will last for generations. He has the young, enthusiastic followers that can change the Republican party.

I am going to be a delegate at my state's convention, and I am working on becoming a respected member of the local party - not by compromising or betraying my beliefs, but by being polite, pleasant, and helpful. I might have to not be able to make it to a couple events :), but I will strive to make sure THIS county's party is fair, honest, and inching ever closer to having that internal libertarian debate Jim DeMint mentioned a few weeks ago.

It doesn't take nearly as much effort to effect change in the hearts and minds of people who respect you.

There are beneficial effects of working within the party as well. Which method works best is certainly debatable, but this is how I currently feel our cause is best served.

The reward may not come in Ron Paul's lifetime, but if we 20-somethings persevere, maybe we will become the Republican establishment...and in that future, that won't be something to fear.

Expose the Fraud First

We must expose the voter fraud before we run 3rd party. Once that is done I think many of the republican voters will see what the party has become and maybe change their minds and come along for a third party run. Then we hope for a Romney win within the GOP and carryout the message of both of these guys being the same in the national debates. After that if we can controll the voter fraud I think we can win the thing. If it is exposed first we may not have to deal with it again the whole election.
Voter fraud is a cancer we can not beat unless we fight it head on. So lets go out and get some.

Money Talks and BullShit Walks

OK all you third party promoters it time to put up or SHUT UP.
IT'S TIME to get off your asses and on to your feet, out of the shade and into the heat because you people really piss me off. You talk like a bunch of phuckin. idiots with paper a$$holes. Well here's your chance to prove me wrong. Talk is cheap and until you can show some positive results of how you intend to accomplish the task we don't need to hear this repeated BS about a third party. I spent 30+ years trying to get the Libertarian Party on the ballot in all 50 states and DC. We worked our asses off in 88 and only managed to get Dr. Paul on 46 ballots and that was with organized parties in all 50 states. The Libertarians have been at this game for 40 years and this year they may be on the ballot in 45 states and you're gona getter done in 8 months. "YEH RIGHT" You better quit smokin that shit cause it's makin you stupid. You can correct your serious mental deficiency by going to http://www.ballot-access.org/ and getting an education about third parties and ballot access. Something else for your information and edification, the Libertarian Party as of 2012 has permanent ballot status in 29 states and has to petition in 22 states to get their presidential candidate on the ballot in all states and DC. Permanent ballot status for the Green Party 18 states, for Americans Elect 16 states, for the Constitution Party 13 states. The list below will give you an idea of the number of signatures required to get an independent candidate or a third party on the ballot. The political party information lacks info on 12 states. So you better hop to it if you are going to have a third party for Doc to run on.

Status Require 4 One Candidate Require 4 Political Party
Alabama 5,000 signatures 37,503 signatures +/-
Alaska 3,128 signatures 7,124 signatures
Arizona 21,500 signatures 20,449 signatures
Arkansas 1,000 signatures 10,000 signatures
California 158,371 signatures 88,991 signatures
Colorado 1,000 signatures 1,000 signatures
Connecticut 7,500 signatures Awaiting info from CT. SOS
Delaware 5,800 signatures 290 signatures
D. C 3,900 signatures Awaiting info from D.C Elections
Florida 104,334 signatures Organized Party
Georgia 42,489 signatures 40,089 signatures
Hawaii 4,291 signatures 663 signatures
Idaho 5,984 signatures 11,968 signatures
Illinois 25,000 signatures Awaiting info from IL. Election.
Indiana 32,742 signatures Awaiting info from IN. Election.
Iowa 1,500 signatures Awaiting info from IA. Election.
Kansas 5,000 signatures 16,994 signatures
Kentucky 5,000 signatures Awaiting info from KY. Election.
Louisiana Filing Fee 1,000 signatures
Maine 4,000 27,544 signatures
Maryland 32,500 signatures 10,000 signatures
Massachusetts10,000 signatures 40,500 registered voters
Michigan 38,024 signatures 38,024 signatures
Minnesota 2,000 signatures 110,150 signatures
Mississippi 1,000 signatures Organized Party
Missouri 10,000 signatures 10,000 signatures
Montana 5,000 signatures 5,000 signatures
Nebraska 2,500 signatures 5,921 signatures
Nevada 5,746 signatures 5,746 signatures
New Hampshire 3,000 signatures 12,106 signatures
New Jersey 800 signatures Awaiting info from NJ Election.
New Mexico 16,764 signatures 2,794 signatures
New York 15,000 signatures Awaiting info from NY Election.
North Carolina 69,734 signatures 69,734 signatures
North Dakota 4,000 signatures 7,000 signatures
Ohio 5,000 signatures 20,114 signatures
Oklahoma 43,915 signatures 48,524 signatures
Oregon 18,356 signatures 20,640 signatures
Pennsylvania 24,000 signatures Awaiting info from PA Election.
Rhode Island 1,000 signatures 18,557 signatures
South Carolina 10,000 signatures 10,000 signatures
South Dakota 3,356 signatures 8,389 signatures
Tennessee 25 signatures* 45,254 signatures
*Each of the 11 (eleven) Elector candidates must get 25 signatures, for a total of 275.
Texas 74,108 signatures 43,991 signatures
Utah 1,000 signatures 2,000 signatures
Vermont 1,000 signatures Organized Party
Virginia 1,000 signatures Awaiting info from VA elections
Washington 1,000 signatures Awaiting info from WA elections
West Virginia 15,118 signatures Awaiting info from WV election
Wisconsin 2,000 signatures 10,000 signatures
Wyoming No info yet Organized Party
TOTAL 854,735 Signatures 808,059 Signatures +

Plus what will be required for a third party in the following states, CT,DC, IL, IN, IA, KY, NJ, NY, PA, VA, WA, WV. Add to the above totals 1/4 to 1/3 or more signatures to cover the invalid ones. You will have anywhere from 30 days to 3 months or more to collect these signatures and have them certified by the county clerks before submitting them to the state.

Voluntary Association + Mutual Cooperation + 110% Personal Responsibility = 100% Individual Liberty

That's the way to shut these numbskulls down Anarchist


No wonder we are in the mess we are in.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

So it took 30 years to do

So it took 30 years to do what Americans Elect is going to do in one?

The internet is bringing about an entirely different world. Where else can someone like Santorum go from 6% to 30% of the Iowa vote in 2-3 days?

Not only do I disagree with you...but also with your poor communication skills. I hope it makes you feel great to curse and insult those who are in the same fight as you...but have different ideas about the best way to get the job done.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Americans Elect is no different than "TEA PARTY" TM

It IS the establishment. The establishment can gin up any crap they want overnight.

BTW-This fool you are replying to-the OP, douglass bartley-is a SP Troll. LOL

Check out its account.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

The above should be posted

everytime one of these 3rd party threads pop up.... that'll shut em up...

Dynamite contribution

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."
Jimi Hendrix

on and on

they just keep on tryin
even though they know we aint buyin
on and on
on and on
on and on

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."
Jimi Hendrix


let this thread die already

All this 3rd Party talk would be nonsense, if

it were not for the incredibly brazen GOP cheating Ron Paul every chance they get. And the media, too. Most people scoff at the idea of a thrird party, but sooner or later, somebody's going to bust this 2 party system up!

alan laney

Third party

Agree with Alan. For the Constitution to have any chance of survival (and it's already gasping for air in an oxygen tent), we must break up the oligopoly of Republocrats.


Duopoly would be the correct term.
We actually want oligopoly ... ahem :)

the correct term is

the correct term is oligarchy.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul


Right! Better yet "Constitutional Monopoly" with a no party system.

Constitutional amendment

... banning the involvement of political parties in the election process in any way shape or form.

Win the GOP nomination

For Ron to announce his VP pick now would be a violation of election law.

A 3rd party run would be doomed to failure. It's an admission of defeat that we can't win the GOP nomination, and as Ron has mentioned before, the system is stacked against 3rd party candidates. They don't let you in the debates.

Win the GOP nomination.

VP Choice Now

What election law prohibits a candidate from saying whom he would pick? If there is such a "law", it would be void as an infringement on the freedom of speech.

Ron Paul has mentioned it.

I don't know the name of the actual law, or the citation, but it does exist, because Ron Paul has mentioned it on various appearances in MSM interviews. My understanding is that it is illegal to pick a VP until after the nomination is completed.

Second Long time account today

that is both interesting and posting, ahem, interesting stuff.

First it was "Korky" and now you.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

A third party run takes a

A third party run takes a huge ego - that's a negative, and to win the candidate needs to have access to more money than the Republican and Democrat parties put together.

Ron Paul is smart enough to know he doesn't have a huge ego or a huge personal fortune.

Third party

Why a huge ego? Why any more huge than running on an establishment party line? Moreover, anyone who has paid attention to Dr. Paul knows that he's a humble man with no ego problem.

Also Senator Buckley won on the Conservative line in N.Y.

Once it becomes clear

... that the GOP has criminally defrauded Dr. Ron Paul out of his rightful nomination ...

Then this already fascinating presidential race really really starts to get interesting. But hey, who knows? Maybe the GOP operatives will wave the white flag and cave into the will of . . .

We The People

The GOP have lost ALL credibility. I personally have converted over fifteen Democrats to the GOP by promoting Dr. Ron Paul. I'm planning on awakening hundreds more in the near term . . .

Your move, GOP asswipes . . .


When the Republicans lose to Obama in November because they nominated Mitt they'll know they screwed up and will be looking for a fall guy. A Ron Paul third party run ensures they have a fall guy to blame their loss on.

Ron Paul is nobody's fall guy. It's early in the campaign, stay steady, stay strong.


Fall guy

"A Ron Paul third party run ensures they have a fall guy to blame their loss on."

To that, I say "great", for it would enhance his stature immensely both within and without the party as the Goldwater-like slayer of Republican Me-tooism.


... label won't apply because millions upon millions of former Democrats are FED UP

... as well.

This is the greatest opportunity to break the two party duopoly in Amerikan politics. The third-party threat to the duopoly is truly our strongest card in our already formidable hand. ( 4 Aces? OMG! )

Save it for later . . . if needed ...

Agreed, level headed

Agreed, level headed progressives like Ron Paul as much as level headed conservatives do. Ron will steal plenty of votes from Obama. Democrats could just as easily call him the spoiler if Obama loses the election.

Or maybe people are so fed up with both parties that Ron might actually win.

Why swim half way across the river, and then turn back?

Look, many of us are now deep inside the GOP power apparatus.

YOU, need to start your climb inside. It will be EASIER for you now that many of us are inside. Some of us are still "undercover". We need MORE foot soldiers to become corporals and Majors.

This party, the GOP, has the database and resources we need.

Look who recommends this great HOLLOW ship? Hint its Ron Paul. And Listen to Rand about how hollow it really is.

Starting a new political party NOW, is like stopping halfway across the river and swimming back.

Why would you want to do that? Just follow in our wake.


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