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Hornberger Nails NeoCons by Asking, "Who Won WWII?"

All patriots need to read this one:

Who Won World War II?
by Jacob G. Hornberger

I’m always intrigued by those in the pro-interventionist crowd who trot out World War II to justify U.S. imperialist interventionism in the Middle East and the rest of the world. They always act as if the United States won World War II and also saved the Jews from the Holocaust. Nothing could be so ridiculous.

With respect to the European Jews, virtually all of them were dead by the end of the war. World War II did not save them from the Holocaust.

Equally important, the United States did not enter the war to save the Jews from the Holocaust. It entered the war because Germany declared war on the United States after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

If the Japanese had not attacked and had Germany not declared war on the United States, it’s not at all clear that the United States would have ever entered the war. Recognizing that World War I had entailed a total waste of American lives and resources, most Americans were steadfastly opposed to entering another foreign war in Europe.

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2012-02-16.asp

++++++

If you find this interesting, you may also find this one interesting...

"Would You Kill an American Hitler?"

http://www.dailypaul.com/215156/would-you-kill-an-american-h...

Treg



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Roosevelt was a very big

Roosevelt was a very big friend of the Soviet Union and did everything he could to expand the influence and power of the USSR.

The UK (and France before they were defeated) could have had peace with Germany at any time from 1939-1945 but their respective governments chose to have war. Similar unreasonable mindset as those who wanted to have war with Iraq and now want war with Iran.

UFOs are real
4 Hour Witness DVD (radar operators, pilots, scientists, military)
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud49Gh9yYLs
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpHAxxRKksQ

The UK is still paying the US back!

The USA bankrolled, and bankcrupted the UK.

Yeah, thats how the USA boomed after WWII, and the UK lost an empire.

The US likes to make money out of war.

And contrary to popular belief. It was the Russians that invaded Berlin, and ended the war. The US was late, as usual.

Also Prescott Bush, GWB's great grandaddy bankrolled Hitler. Google it.

And good old Henry Ford, who was a great admirer of the Fuhrer wrote a book called "The International Jew"

;-))

Who Won World War II?
Ahh The Banksters Won!
We All Lost.;-(
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Bingo! Love it. i feel a

Bingo! Love it.

i feel a little anti-american thing going on here, fact of the matter the article is a little suspect on facts. The Soviet and Polish struggle was post war. Something that i really cannot understand is why would Germany incite the US in sinking a passenger ship? I mean England was in pretty bad shape, France was down.. why would it bring another superpower into the fold. It almost seems as if Germany in both wars had to fight a two front war every time.

Outstanding

I knew many of those pieces, but never strung them together before. That was excellent.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

ecorob's picture

The truth...

will set your mind free.

Great information that we just aren't exposed to every day, as a RULE.

Ron Paul
2012

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

World War II

There are a few more points to make.
The United States cut off the supply of oil to Japan as part of its effort to provoke Japan. The nominal bone of contention with the U.S. was Japan's Asian continental empire which included part of China. The Japanese and Chinese had been fighting each other for years. The alliance between Japan and Germany was both anti-British and anti-Soviet.
The Japanese empire had Soviet troops locked in Asia because the USSR feared Japan would attack them. When Japan attacked the United States instead in order to secure its oil supply, Stalin rushed those troops out of Asia to rescue Moscow in the winter of 1941-1942. The German army was hunkered down, waiting for spring, and looking to throw the Soviets back beyond the Ural Mountains.
The bulk of the Jews of Europe lived in Poland and East of there. Most of Germany's Jews had emigrated by 1939, when the war started. The fate of the Jews was never priority for the Soviets, as far as I know. Britain and the U.S. gave it lip service in 1944. There were some lurid newspaper articles from 1942 onward, but were generally seen as war propaganda such as produced during WWI. When asked about the Jews, the FDR administration responded that their approach to saving the Jews was to end the war as quickly as possible. This too was a lie. FDR's declaration that the Allies would only accept unconditional surrender meant the war would continue for as long as possible and result in the deaths of millions more people.

[F]orce can only settle questions of power, not of right. - Clyde N. Wilson

We demanded half of Japan's naval vessels and airplanes.

Harry Dexter White (Soviet Agent in the US Treasury dept, revealed in Venona decriptions) wrote a memo suggesting "that the U.S. should demand of Japan that they withdraw their troops completely from China and southeast Asia, to lease to America 50% of their naval vessels and airplanes, and to sell to America half of Japan's output of war material." The demands in this memo were adopted by Sec of State Cordell Hull and transmitted in exceptionally harsh language to the Japanese in November, 1941. They attacked Pearl Harbor the next month.

ecorob's picture

nice little addition to the story...

thank you!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

He fails to point out that a few years after going to war

with Japan over China we were at war with China in Korea.

What about the bomb?

Would that have made it necessary for the US intervene? Couldn't let the prospects of nuke technology fall into the hands of the "allies" but not the US. And if the NAZIS would have got a functional nuke, if they had the time, would they have used it?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."
Jimi Hendrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odcGSi286a4&feature=plcp&cont...

Counterfactuals.

One can play what-if all day long. What if Poland had negotiated the rail corridor to East Prussia and the return of Danzig to Germany from League of Nations thus preventing a German invasion of Poland? What if Britain and the U.S. had encouraged Poland to do that instead of working to prevent an agreement?

[F]orce can only settle questions of power, not of right. - Clyde N. Wilson

What about the Bomb and the Jet? NOTICE how we

got those two technologies? By espionage, secrecy, and immigration -- all the ways the Chinese are doing right now.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

militarism defeats itself

The communists lost as well. To beat Hitler, they needed Stalin - murderer extraordinaire in his own right. He organised the industrialisation (with help from the US) and militarized the Sovjet Union to gain an empire until they finally overstretched themselves in Afghanistan.

Everybody lost World War II in the end.

Governments won. Their citizens lost.

"War is the health of the state," quoth Randolph Bourne. Wars destroy the private sector and build up the "public" sector. They destroy liberty and grow government like a cancer on society.

The people who "win" wars are the people who sell munitions and those who loan money to the winning governments.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

reedr3v's picture

the Soviets ultimately lost. But I think

Hornberger's point is that communism won the world. It grew to the dominate economic influence for all of the socialist/Keynesian imitators. Now at last the Austrians and the freedom movement are peacefully challenging the intellectual status quo as it fails in plain sight globally.

Yeah, a psychological victory

Yeah, a psychological victory most of all. As a real power it wore itself out rather quickly. They were hollowed out long before they went into Afghanistan. It's fascinating they managed to hold on for so long.

A lot of stories you guys in the US got about them building a huge military and posing a big threat was propaganda. Take one guess where a lot of neo-cons like Rumsfeld got their start?

Outstanding

read! Shared on Twitter...

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

Good read.

I agree with the general consensus but think his historical perspective is questionable or at least highly debatable.

One example is how, magically with no sources, he infers that Hitler had no intention of involving the United States. There is documentation of talks between the Nazi's and Japan where Hitler advocates for Japanese involvement against the U.S.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

You are misreading it.

The author never said, "Hitler had no intention of involving the United States."

He said, "there isn’t one iota of evidence that Hitler even desired to cross the ocean to invade and occupy the United States."

To "involve" is an entirely different thing from "invading and occupying."

Beautiful Article! Thanks!

I'm Jewish and find it hard to explain Dr. Paul's foreign policy to other Jews because often its looked upon disdainfully with regards to Israel, WW2, the Holocaust. They don't get it, and the public school/traditional historical narrative has so much to do with it, combined with the general bias against non-intervention.

Folks, filling in the historical gaps can do wonders to these current anti-RP holdouts! Instead of group-think complaining about Jews and their perspective, inform with facts and historical analysis that demonstrates liberty's commitment to true decency and show that the state is NOT the great benefactor to many its just a gang of thieves writ large, as economist Murray Rothbard (personal hero of Paul's) used to say.

This article's historical evaluation with regards to government limiting immigration and FDR's crap economy combined with USSR post war horrors wraps this issue up nicely. Also see another similarly great article on Lew Rockwell.com dealing with this subject too:
http://lewrockwell.com/walker/walker45.1.html

Arapahoe County/Centennial/Denver Colorado

Jewish libertarians Rock!

I mean, where would we be without Mises, Hayek, M. Friedman, D.Friedman, P. Friedman, Murray Rothbard, and Sheldon Richman?

Sorry if I missed somebody.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Most important of all....Benjamin Freedman.

If you've never heard his speech from 1961, it is a MUST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhFRGDyX48c

Written text: http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm

If you apply loose definition

as anti-Semites who joined RP camp (not because of individual liberty, but because they think cutting aid to Israel will make her weaker) do, those people you have mentioned are actually ZIONISTS.

Hazlitt,...

Awesome read - thanks for

Awesome read - thanks for posting.

excellent little article

loved the dismissive sarcasm aimed at the interventionist.

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

I may have misread it, but

I may have misread it, but one source I read said that the Allied powers lost 42 million people in the war and the Axis powers lost 11 million, so from that standpoint alone we lost horribly.

Of which the US, UK and France lost about a million

The Soviets and China lost the vast majority of Allied casualties. Not sure what the point is. The US lost 4000 troops in Iraq against something like 1 million Iraqi casualties. Neither ratio is a good argument for or against interventionism.

42 million included civilians, mostly from USSR

If you count German civilians, they lost 22 million people in WWII.

Thanx,

Jason

You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

Wikipedia says 61M dead to

Wikipedia says 61M dead to 12M dead, even worse! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II