I attended a GOP Meeting last night; this is what was said...
Submitted by Jaktober on Sun, 02/19/2012 - 11:17First off, there were a few Ron Paul supporters there.
However, what is important is what I talked to non-supporters about. If we are going to win we need to win votes, I think that is very important to acknowledge, because what was said was that people perceive Ron Paul supporters as not caring about turning people off, in reality, this show that you don't really care about the movement, about our candidate, and about changing the direction of the country.
If you care about changing the country, most likely it will take changing yourself. Not your positions, not your voting record, maybe not even your habits, but you need to change the way you communicate with people that don't agree with you.
The girl who organized the event said she had previously been open to voting Ron Paul in the Primary out here (March 6th). She was invited to attend a debate watching party hosted by the local Ron Paul group. She said that she couldn't even hear the debate because people were booing and yelling at the other candidates on the TV. First of all, seriously? You all know they can't hear you right? And all you are doing is offending people that might actually want to listen to the debate and the other candidates.
Second, she said she has read a lot of threads by Ron Paul supporters, and the way "we" talk about voters turned her off. Namely the phone calling. The reality is that the obsessive phone calling is turning off voters. When a supporter said, "If they won't vote for him because of phone calls they are stupid," well, that made us look stupid to her. Don't we care about winning votes? If not, do we not care about winning?
If you are going to represent Ron Paul act like you care about it. Everywhere I've gone there has been at least one "bad apple" in the bunch that is turning off voters and the community around them from our cause.
Be civil. Show people the respect you want them to show you (the Golden Rule anyone?).
This leads to the other conversations I had, which were on Foreign Policy. There are people that are legitimately concerned with the non-interventionist Foreign Policy. I even met a couple guys from the DoD the other night that said the same thing, "I like Ron Paul except for his Foreign Policy."
We need to be able to engage in this conversation, again, with respect. Don't get into fights. Seriously, don't down talk people, don't insult them. Use civil language, listen to them and respect their opinion. Try to give them information that will help them.
I was able to make sense by going over the rule of law, and how the President must be restrained in order to protect us from tyrannical rule. That sometimes it can be scary, but that life is scary, and it is more dangerous to have a President unrestrained by the Constitution, then to have some delays in response.
Three things to refer to; Declaration of War, Treaties, and Marque and Reprisal. The Treaty is key when talking about having troops stationed in other countries during global tensions. Tell them how Paul wants Congress to make these decisions so that they are accountable to us, the People. If Congress declares War Paul will fight it. If they approve a Treaty to have troops stationed somewhere to help protect someone that Congress feels is within our national interest, he will do it. It is our and his belief that we don't need to be involved as much as we are, but that any involvement must be done through the Rule of Law.
Additionally, as much as possible, clarify between your belief and Ron Paul's position. People want to associate people together, and say, well that's the problem with Ron Paul, when really, it is only the belief or action of one of his supporters.
Someone brought up Bazookas...should people be able to own a Bazooka. We talked about where we draw lines, because it is reasonable that lines need to be drawn somewhere.
My main point was that these were the conversations we need to be having. We need to be able to have these conversations without either side feeling put down. Otherwise we lose the debate and end up with an argument.
My conclusion of this; the Revolution is an individual Revolution. The thing we must learn is how to talk to people we don't agree with without it turning into an argument. We need to learn to communicate, to have reverse, and treat people with respect. If we can do that, then we open the door for everything else. If we can't, then we lose.
Make up your mind, are you in this to better the country, or are you in this to get into fights and boost your ego. Is this about you or Ron Paul? If it's about Ron Paul, then you will better yourself.
We don't have time to screw around and be stubborn.
It wasn't hard
for them to put you on defense.
That's how they win.
Emulate Ron's Style
I just try to emulate Ron Paul's style of calm, respectful discourse even when my blood pressure is through the roof. It's difficult but the results are positive. I figure his delivery style is how he'd prefer to be represented.
http://riseforliberty.com/
What they say is not what they mean.
When GOP establishment people say they like Ron Paul, but are turned off by his supporters, it is their way of saying something else entirely. The reason why they say that is they want Ron Paul supporters to be like all of the supporters for other candidates. That is, they want Ron Paul supporters to put the party uber alles. They want Ron Paul supporters to say "I will support any knothead the GOP nominates in November, if Ron Paul loses the nomination", because that is what they expect will happen. Ron Paul supporters won't make nice with the other, establishment candidates, so the establishment people lie and blame the Ron Paul supporters for their lack of support for Ron Paul. The moon will turn a bright purple before they will support Dr. Paul.
What they want to do is blame his supporters, because they can't depend on his supporters switching to their candidate after the convention. You see, Ron Paul is great, but he will not be nominated, so it costs me nothing to say something nice about him, but since you "Paulbots" will not fall in line after he loses, you are just plain useless. Dont' be fooled. That is what they mean.
[F]orce can only settle questions of power, not of right. - Clyde N. Wilson
I respectfully disagree
It takes all kinds of people to win an election.
When someone comes to understand what Ron Paul is saying, they like Ron Paul, and want Ron Paul for president. It doesn't matter if the clown in the smoke marijuana tee shirt is screaming "Ron Paul or NO ONE!" It doesn't matter if the stuck up witch that reeks of cheap cologne and snaps gum while going on and on about Ron Paul standing for her rights, it doesn't matter if the bald fat jerk who smells like Burger King and farts 12 million times a hour is wearing a Ron Paul tee shirt that is too small. It doesn't matter if the old lady with a bad fake boob job and reeks of tobacco and acts like she's hooking, is demanding the Ron Paul's ballots were not counted correctly. It doesn't matter that the long haired kid who doesn't look old enough to vote and gets thousands of cell phone calls a minute, and talks about how Ron Paul is for young people only. It doesn't matter if the "Hottie" is smoozing every man in the place to take a Super Brochure from her or else. It doesn't matter if the school teacher with a lisp is telling the group how Ron Paul will end wars ad nausum. It doesn't matter if the guy who works for UPS and is always late, go figure, interupts everyone talking to make a point about Ron Paul... I can go on with expamples in hopes that you get my point.
IF YOU BELIEVE RON PAUL IS CORRECT ABOUT POLITICS, you have no other candidate. It really doesn't matter what anyone else says or thinks, or dose or looks like. THAT'S THEM!
There are people in my RCC who (secretly like Obama very much) I'm not going to kiss their ass in hopes they will like Ron Paul. They won't. You either like Ron Paul, or you want a NWO and like the way things are going no matter who is president or what party.
To make compromises in hopes people will like you, you end up with people really not liking you in the end.
Don't "ho" for Ron Paul, be yourself, no matter who or what you are. Those who LOVE Ron Paul have got something only no one else in the GOP has... a candidate they really LOVE. The others are jealous and/or they have an agenda.
If they are not supporting Ron Paul, they are working to destroy the USA. I hope they always sit next to the people I mentioned above. They deserve to be surrounded by the least of us.
Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to jumping up and down in Tampa next to all of them screaming RON PAUL HAS WON with tears streaming down my happy happy face.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
Well said!
Read my comment below "I think you got it..."
The point of this post isn't to disagree with your statement, but to point out that not everyone is able to disassociate in that manner, that is a reality, and we need to know how to communicate/work with those people if we hope to win even 10% of them over.
Even when we put President Paul in the White House, the movement is not over. We will still need to elect people to Congress, State Houses and City Halls. This is not a short term process, but a life-long process, that will require each of us (at least, I have required myself) to be as refined in our actions and words as possible.
With that said, we should all feel free to relax and be ourselves. It is about balance, when someone is weighted too much on one side, balance seems radical. All I'm talking about is balance.
Jack Wagner
The Free Independent-Sun
Chip-In for Nassim Taleb Fundraiser
I just read the most important idea of the whole campaign
Instead of listening to what other people say about Ron Paul. Listen to Ron Paul himself before you make a decision. His supporters are passionate and sometimes obnoxious and the corporation owned press and higher up republican structure are bashing him on the other side. Just listen to the candidate then make your decision.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/mobile_opinion/x740677251/LET...
http://www.meetup.com/Run-Ron-Paul-2012-Mid-Valley-Chapter/e...
Well Said.
I always try to emulate Dr. Paul. He is always respectful, even when answering the same questions about his stance on foreign policy, drug policy and social issues over and over.
We must win the intellectual battle of the Republic and what a Republic is... and we can't do that when we are combative and disrespectful.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free
-goethe
Am I missing something here?
My comment here is regarding the part about the girl you mentioned, well it seems that she thinks that voting for Ron Paul is somehow voting for Ron Paul supporters?
Say that she was with some Ron Paul supporters that didn't behave in the right way, why does she think that all Ron Paul supporters behaves the same way, and what does that have to do with her vote and Dr. Paul?
I always liked when Dr. Paul in almost every speech defines a society as a group of individuals, which means that no individual in the society is the same as another individual, they all share the same rights and obligations but every individual is unique.
You know that there is tons of excuses for not doing the right thing, and generalizing is the easiest way to dismiss an idea.
I think you get it...
"People want to associate people together, and say, well that's the problem with Ron Paul, when really, it is only the belief or action of one of his supporters."
My response to the organizer mentioned in this article was exactly what you said. However, the point of this article is to address the reality that a lot of people still use "guilt by association." In order to even get to the conversation we want to have (about individualism, etc.) we need to tone it down a bit. Once we get through then hopefully the person will think the way you say; judging Ron Paul by Ron Paul, and not by his supporters.
However, the idea that endorsing Ron Paul is endorsing his supporters is legit. If by endorsing Ron Paul you also endorse his supporters becoming Delegates and officials within the Party (which is happening, and is in fact, how we will win this thing), then the concern that these supporters are going to potentially bring the observed behavior into the party is a genuine concern.
Our job is to prove to them that that is not the case. That the overwhelming majority of us are very respectful and clear-headed individuals, that we are educated on the issues, and very serious about running our country and our lives.
My intention is to basically give those few bad-apples a kick in the rear, remind the rest of us that we are going to have to make up for them (instead of being able to focus on the issues, for example, I had to spend time talking about this concept with the individual referred to in this post), and bring us all up a notch in the process.
If you are a leader, you need to set a strong example. Do you best not to encourage the behavior by participating in it when it is "okay." You may be able to know when to do it and when not, but other supporters might not.
Be articulate in the explanation of individualism, so that you can communicate it to others quickly and over-ride any negative effect the "over-zealous" supporters inflict.
In the end it is all good. Even those that "bring us down" will really bring us up if we know how to learn from it. Some people respect an angry defiant supporter, so be it.
The truth is we need to do our own thing, and this post is my own thing. I have to be genuine, and to me, this is a genuine concern; so I wrote about it.
Jack Wagner
The Free Independent-Sun
Chip-In for Nassim Taleb Fundraiser
Thanks
Thanks for saying what some needed to hear. Now hopefully, they will listen. Remember, while your intentions may be good, the outcome may not. Think!
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/395622.Ron_Paul
"We should never judge a president by his age, only by his works." -Thomas Jefferson
http://www.mediafire.com/?s4snpbpsts5b3 - Thx sovereignjanice
Its good to caution long-time Paul supporters
The OP is probably directed more to long-time Paul supporters who are far more "awake" than the typical politically interested voter who is thinking about switching to Paul.
Becoming a Ron Paul supporter takes a high level of intellectual engagement and truth seeking, something that tends to create a "reality divide" between "us" and those who may become one of "us".
Honestly the "reality divide" can become very large, and nearly impossible to bridge in a typical conversation with "outsiders". At the same time we have no choice, we have to try our best. It doesn't always work out. Its not entirely our fault either. Most of the blame lies with the MSM poisoning the water, the government covering everything up with lies, and the public schools teaching everyone worthless garbage when it comes to history, economics and politics.
There are a variety of circumstances where new people can have a bad experience with Paul supporters because of the "reality divide". Your examples fall into that category, and it is regrettable, though clearly unintentional. These problems can be avoided by simply being more careful and more patient with the uninformed. Thanks for the post.
Stop Bashing R.P. Supporters
This post, bashing our supporters is ignorant and self righteous. If anyone has an EGO that needs to be toned down, it's the authors.
Ron Paul often defends his supporters and rightfully so.
Again, we are baited by someone, claiming to be a Ron Paul supporter, at the same time totally ignoring a basic principle of Ron Paul...Stop telling other people what to do, how to act, what to say!.... Talk about the Issues.
I am one of those passionate supporters and no one will silence me. If you like to make up stories and post them fine, But don't bash our supporters.
Maybe we are aggressive because we have to stand out in the cold to wave signs for our voice to be heard, but it's working. We're growing and they can't stop it, and neither can you.
This is not bashing--
This post is not bashing anyone. It is constructive criticism, and there is a difference. The author is legitimately pointing out some actions of RP supporters that are not working, and giving specific examples of why they are not working. He is not trying to silence anybody. It is all about the presentation.
I am in retail sales, and the product which I sell cna be very technical, so there are a lot of details my customers may not understand when they enter my store, and we have to explain them in terms that they will get. Two different salespeople can have the same amount of knowledge about the product, yet one can be a very successful salespersonl and the other not so successful, depending on the presentation.
You must gain the customer's trust, and often that come in the first minute or two of your interaction. Only then can you begin explaining the details.
This is the same way with explaining Ron Paul's philosophies. Make yourself credible first, then lay out the truth in front of people.
My personal belief is that it is not my responsibility to "convince" anybody. It is my responsibility to lay out the truth in a logical and credible way, in polite debate fashion, and let people use that truth to convince themselves. This doesn't mean that I am not passionate about the argument. But if someone gets "talked into" supporting Ron Paul, he is just as likely to get "talked out of" supporting him next week. When someone looks at the truth and convinces himself of the merits of the argument, that is more likely to become a core conviction for the person.
I know several people who are now supporting Ron Paul that I would never have believed one year ago, including lifelong Democrats. That is the way I approach it, because I am appealing to the intellect of the person, and not just bombarding them with raw emotion.
Try it just once or twice, and see if others react differently. No one ever calls me a "crazy" Ron Paul supporter once they hear my arguments.
It's kind of about Fights
I'm fighting to prevent people from using the power of the vote, that is - the tyranny of democracy, from invading my privacy, devaluing my hard earned money, telling me what I can eat, drink and smoke, preventing me from protecting myself, my love ones and the property I've acquired by honest means in the manner in which I see fit, and committing me to supporting - in money or blood - all sorts of atrocities both here and abroad that I want no part of.
It's a shame our law has been
It's a shame our law has been so perverted that it no longer protects the individual from the most basic: tyranny of the majority, the unjust unlawful exercise of power to violate liberty.
Your analysis of her "excuse"
Your analysis of her excuse is dubious (if not utterly naive), and your contempt of RP supporters as a collective is disturbing.
I'm astonished and ashamed you've gotten 100 up votes.
"Why don't you reform yourself? That task would be sufficient enough.”
I agree.
I agree with what you have written and how you worded your letter. I think there are many people out there who only believe what the media has said about Ron Paul. They are told the most outlandish things like "if Ron Paul is elected, Heroin will be sold in stores within a week." There are many people out there that really believe what people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have to say about Dr. Paul. And they have made him look about as positive as Dr. Kevorkian. Many people believe that the only people who support Ron Paul are stoners and addicts. I met someone who said that she liked some things about him except for "he wants to make it illegal for a woman to have an abortion." And personally I have no idea what he wants to do as far as abortion is concerned. I have seen ads with Rand Paul's name on it saying he wants to repeal Roe Versus Wade. And personally, my opinion is split on that. I'm divorced now, but I wouldn't have wanted my wife to have an abortion, but I do not feel that I have a right to tell any woman what she can or cannot do or be allowed to do with her body.
Larry in North Carolina
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to not support Ron Paul!
Abortion is a complicated
Abortion is a complicated issue, and RP wants to ensure that each woman has the most freedom to make the best choice for herself. A federal mandate for or against abortion does not ensure such freedoms for the woman dealing with such a difficult issue. The closer it's handled with the woman, the better choice she will be able to make.
Although the Abortion Issue is important
and an argument whether birth control pills are free or they have to be paid for is an issue we have to deal with but we need to get back to the most important issue which is will America Survive another 4 years of Obama. Our Soverignty is much more important. Lets not argue about how many illegal aliens it takes to mow Mitt Romneys yard OK. Don't get distracted by the haves and the have nots, the union and non union. These things are all important but they are stumbling blocks put in to distract us. We are headed for Martial law and two more wars and a financial collapse. That is what we need to be concentrating on. Wake up before it is too late.
http://www.meetup.com/Run-Ron-Paul-2012-Mid-Valley-Chapter/e...
I think Emily is the best example...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQefgFExlw&feature=youtu.be
Listen to why she converted...because Ron Paul supporters talked to her about the issues.
I hope people realized that this post wasn't directed at the majority of Ron Paul supporters. The majority are great. This was directed toward the minority of supporters that aren't getting it. My hope was to get at least 1 of them to start upping their game.
Jack Wagner
The Free Independent-Sun
Chip-In for Nassim Taleb Fundraiser
The militant Paulestinians...
The militant Paulestinians... will be RP's downfall...
This is a Revolution
As you know there are many passionate as well as starving people in this country. We come from all walks of life. Some of us are Doctors and Lawyers and some of us live in cars and off the street. Many of us are struggling to survive. Some of us don't know any other way to communicate without foul language and anger. We need to speak to these people and ask them to tone down occasionally and explain why but we will never change them or us. We are a diverse group of people come together for a very important cause. Please don't disenfranchise anyone we need every vote we can get. Quit fighting between us because that is what George Soros is trying to do to us. Thats why they are trying to pit the government employees against the bar tenders and farmers. Can't you see what is going on? We need to focus on the big problem. We need to all come together if it is possible.
http://www.meetup.com/Run-Ron-Paul-2012-Mid-Valley-Chapter/e...
Jaktober-This is excellent insight and advice
Thank You
I hope all consider your suggestions and apply them.
"You are a den of vipers and thieves."
I mean to rout you out!
-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us
-The door is wide open, anything can slither in
I'm finding that the more
I'm finding that the more optimal way to talk to people about RP is to simply say he's the candidate that wants to ensure you have the most freedom to make the best choices for yourself.
If they are interested in the specific policies, they can look it up online or from various literature.
Great post
Thank you. I needed to hear that tonight. I've needed to take a few days off so it was good to come back to a good pep talk.
IF ONLY we could
trade "our" anti-Semites who joined RP camp (not because of individual liberty, but because of thinking that stopping aid to Israel will weaken her) for fiscally conservative Evangelicals and Glenn Beck crowd, we would have won this race. The fact that Santorum (who has no money, people on the ground or the establishment cover) gets more votes than RP shows that many ordinary republicans prefer security of Israel over any country with Sharia Law - the law that is the enemy to RP's individual liberty and free speech.
You know this country is broke, right?
And it's bad policy to shovel money at Israel and support aggression against countries because they make Israel uncomfortable. Are you suggesting Ron Paul should commit to a destructive policy in order to win? That would be wrong.
You either misunderstood my post or are in the same category
with neo-con Jews, Glenn Beck, evangelicals and anti-Semites in RP camp. All believe that cutting aid to Israel will make her weaker. We do NOT need to give money to Israel (Pentagon will be forced to pay fair market price for Israeli know how and Israel will sell its technology to Russia, India, Brazil and China.)
The aid only grows local socialism inside Israel and those Israeli socialists almost gave Jerusalem back to Arafat in 1998. If RP explained that to people, evangelicals would join in, anti-Semites would move out.
This is exactly what I am talking about
Now we have turned it into a racial thing. God Help us we are his poeple lets try to get along at least until the general election is over. Conquer and Divide that is their plan. They are called Facists and the international Illuminati Banking Cartel headed by the Rothschilds and the Rockerfellers. Their plan is to eliminate most of us and control the rest.
http://www.meetup.com/Run-Ron-Paul-2012-Mid-Valley-Chapter/e...
All believe that cutting aid
No, I'm not in any camp. That's why I asked if that's what you meant.
But then you explained: