Hillsdale College Constitution 101 Open Thread
Submitted by RegularJohn on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:35For those of you who missed it, or have yet to sign up, Hillsdale College is offering their online course "Constitution 101" to all Americans for free. http://s2.dailypaul.com/209161/hillsdale-college-offers-thei...
I thought it might be nice to have an open thread here to actively discuss material for each week, help each other better understand certain ideas, or just add an opinion.
Week one has just started (2/20/2012), and we are covering:
“The American Mind”
including:
1. “Letter to Henry Lee” - Thomas Jefferson
2. “On the Commonwealth” - Marcus Tullius Cicero
3. “Nicomachean Ethics” - Aristotle
4. “The Politics” - Aristotle
5. “Discourses Concerning Government” - Algernon Sidney
6. “Second Treatise of Government” - John Locke
7. “Fragment on the Constitution and the Union” - Abraham Lincoln
8. “The Inspiration of the Declaration” - Calvin Coolidge
The case for Hillsdale, reposted from below:
Members like "adampeart" are wrong with respect to the finer points they make simply because the very basis of their argument - that Hillsdale is a neo-con college - is incorrect. Excuse me. But I doubt the critics know a thing about the place, and I'm a little disappointed that my fellow Paul supporters are so quick to judge others, few as we are.
Hillsdale appears to be a neo-con college on little evidence more than being endorsed by Hannity or Rush or whoever the flavor of the month is. The college is very nervous, as it knows that it has supporters on multiple sides of the conservative-libertarian spectrum, and it is a very delicate balance to strike in this country at the moment, so it would be kind of you lot to NOT sow discord within the ranks. Leave the libel to the progressives.
Truth is, most students are attracted to and arrive at Hillsdale as far-right, hawkish conservatives ... and graduate with a new-found love of free markets, self-government, the Western tradition, and of course, the U.S. Constitution. Yes, Hillsdale tends to transform neo-cons into varieties of libertarians. I swear to it, I've heard the story again and again from graduates. Even among the current students, the campus is overflowing with Ron Paul supporters. A fifth of the students recently signed a petition to bring the Doctor to campus. The surrounding county (Hillsdale) voted more favorably for Ron Paul in 2008 than any else in Michigan. And let's not forget that Dr. Paul espouses and frequently quotes in his books the late Russell Kirk, non-interventionist father of American conservatism, who made his legacy teaching at Hillsdale College, where his personal writings are housed to this day, just like Ludwig von Mises' personal library. Hillsdale College is in fact a gold mine of truly classical education, not indoctrination.
If "adampeart" and the others have counter-evidence to offer, I welcome it. Otherwise, be grateful that you and Dr. Paul have an ally amongst prestigious American higher education after all. Oh, and enjoy the free class. Some of you seem to be saying good things about the truthful, unbiased approach of the course already, so there you go.
The real education is at edrivera.com
All Constitutional authority is founded in all Four Organic Laws of the United States of America which are according to the United States Code Volume I considered General and Permanent Laws of the United States and all four of these laws are the authoritative written law for the federal and United States government.
The Four Organic Laws of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence July 4 1776, The Articles of Confederation November 15 1777, The Northwest Ordinance July 13 1787 and the Constitution for the United States of America September 17 1787. If you have a penchant to understand the Constitution of September 17 1787 you need to at least read some of Ed Rivera's writings they are indisputable and factual.
In the introduction series, did anyone catch the speaker
State that the civil war was started "because of slavery"? He went on to state that the college was involved at the time of freeing slaves, but it drives me crazy when people misrepresent the cause of the civil war, and the leftist MSM share this opinion. I also took notice when the speaker stated that the chart he had designed for the presentation of "natural" and "equality" had been rejected by the school. When I hear school and rejected when in reference to materials and information to be provided I get weary. All in all very informative, and hopefully many of us that desire so much to have a personal understanding will garner it during this course.
Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, and set those BRUSH FIRES everywhere you go and in all you do!
Don't worry.
Arnn doesn't think the Civil War was started simply "because of slavery" (that would be very public-education of him, no?), but if he tackled all the messy details - which he is well aware of - it would lend stray from the topic and, I suspect, harm the brevity of the lesson for the viewers.
Signed up!
The lectures from the college's website and youtube are definitely a breath of fresh air. I am encouraged to learn more through this course. So far, I haven't really seen the "neo-con" perspective from the college except when it is the context of how does our country reverse course. They seem to support a constitutional republic as it was founded while recognizing that it will take steps to roll back progressive damage. I believe they are being realistic with the constitution being the ultimate goal.
Neo-con does not seem to apply to them.
You are exactly right.
People who don't fear the Constitution as written should have more respect for Hillsdale.
I'm taking this course too..
I do NOT listen to radio, NPR, Rush, Hannity, etc...not interested - don't care. I watch a little TV, however...I'll watch Robin Meade on Headline "News" for about 15 minutes to learn that Whitney Houston is still dead, or until I can't take the propaganda anymore, then I switch over to RT to learn what's going on around the globe...usually it's that we're all on the brink of WW3 and most nations in Europe and East Asia are rioting....no mention of that from CNN.
Not knowing anything about Hillsdale's advertising, I have heard no bias thus far. I will also be taking the video course mentioned below, to learn all I can about this wonderful gift we've been given...
------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry
Awesome
Yeah, I majored in and have my degree in Secondary Education with a focus on History, and I have studied the Constitution/Colonial Era/Evolution of Political thought independently to an almost obsessive degree, but I will never turn down an opportunity to possibly learn just a little more. I will definitely be checking out those links below also.
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
Bump?
I'm kind of disappointed by the lack of interest, or maybe just surprised...
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
This isn't rocket science.
Step 1: Pick up constitution. Step 2: Read and make personal notes. Step 3: Read other works from founders and revolutionaries of the time to gain context. Step 4: Repeat the process.
Hillsdale 'college' course Constitution 101 is the gateway drug for those prone to being neo-conned. They will tell you how you should 'interpret' it, like it's some ancient text of the magi or something. It's written in English after all. Folks, just ask yourself why Hannity and Prager are so stoked about it. It's the same old trick, telling you WHAT to think, not HOW to think. Tools to pervert knowledge and truth. Do as you please, of course. This is just my opinion on the matter. Just think about this: The Tea Party's original issue was overreach by the federal government; over taxing, over spending, over lording, and anti-FED. Now, since the neo-conned usurped the movement it's about family values, being anti-'liberal' and supporting the likes of Newt Gingrich(really?) and Herman Cain? Now Hillsdale and the neo-conned want to tell you 'what the constitution really means' according to them? Yeah, and I'll go buy gold from Goldline. Ha! Again, just my opinion.
Worded with conviction...
...but mistaken nonetheless. Below, you can read why. Might set your mind at ease if you let it. Thanks for your time.
Listen
Don't you think it would be beneficial, given that this MIGHT become a class disguised with some sort of bias, to discover how neo-conservatives (in a CLASSROOM environment) rationalize their ideology? Don't you think that maybe it will allow us to better structure our arguments for OUR interpretations if we knew exactly where their version of history is being distorted and what fallacies are being promoted? These are the people (the students) we are looking to bring over to our side, these are the same people we are having difficulty winning over. Is it crazy to suggest that the problem BEGINS in the classroom? This may be a good opportunity to better understand where people's misconceptions about government begin and the evolution of this movement. Let me just add that this class is FREE, we are not paying for someone's perspective, we are being welcomed in to see the problem.
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
Learn the definition of "neo-con"
"Neo" means "newly". A "neo-con" is someone who used to be a liberal.
I saw Hillsdale President Larry Arnn give a talk about 5 years ago and he is very much an anti-Islam interventionist.
Neo-con more closely
Neo-con more closely resembles "modern conservative" then it does "former liberal."
Or more to the point, neo-con = liberal/progressive/RINO
Who exactly are you speaking to?
Because I sure don't have any misconception of what a "neo-con" is...
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
from what ive been told
from what ive been told Hillsdale College is neo-con, so you might be getting a slanted point of view, there is a 43 part series on youtube by Michael Badnarik, a libertarian, that is excellent so i hear.
edit: link! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s
You've been told wrong.
Explanation below.
The only knowledge I have of Hillsdale
Is an economics professor that was visiting at my school this year, but he's an Austrian. So I don't know if it's all neo-con...
...
Virtually NONE of Hillsdale is neo-con, unless you count a few underclassmen. It's a lie that I expected to hear the progressives stoop to, but not my fellow libertarians, as is rampant on this site.
Incidentally, which economics professor? Wolfram? Wenzel? Folsom? Steele?
From my experience
this course seems so far, from the selection of readings, and after watching the introduction to the Constitution lectures, to be a fairly balanced history of the drafting of the Declaration of Independence and U.S Constitution. I feel that it is a good idea for everyone to take advantage of this course, as the readings provided are all beneficial to revisit, and will help us all better shape our arguments against the neo-con/liberal (broad) interpretations of the Constitution. If at any point the professor opts to inject his own slanted view of the Constitution into the lectures, it will provide a fun writing exercise to rebut/refute his claims. So far, this doesn't seem to be the case.
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
noted
i had only heard that from another dp forum on the exact same course so i passed it along im glad its a good one though i have no dog in the race no matter what these other morons think
I agree with regularjohn 100%, and I am one scanning and waiting
For the "fix" among academia, yet so far everything seems straight forward and unbiased. I look forward to the Q&A period, but the speaker has also stated that our government has strayed far far from the constitution, that alone tells me he wants to give us the best information the college will allow him to. It never hurts to learn either, even if it is a liberal class that defines the constitution completely out of context, at least you know how to refute their assumptions and absurd ideals.
Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, and set those BRUSH FIRES everywhere you go and in all you do!
Having heard advertisements
Having heard advertisements for this course on Rush's show, I immediately assumed it would be a neo-con view of the constitution. So I dismissed it. Are you finding it to be a worthwhile use of your time?
So far...
it doesn't appear to be that way. Having taken my courses in American History and U.S Law/Constitution in college from a pool of ultra-liberals, this refresher course is already a breath of fresh air. As always, I recommend that everyone get their version of history from MULTIPLE readings/lectures/perspectives and then form your own opinion. By no means do I think this class will be entirely balanced, but I do think it will be stimulating in shaping our arguments/ reaffirming and strengthening our own philosophies.
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
On Hillsdale College
I'm glad you feel that way. I think now is a good time to make my case: Members like "adampeart" are wrong with respect to the finer points they make simply because the very basis of their argument - that Hillsdale is a neo-con college - is incorrect. Excuse me. But I doubt the critics know a thing about the place, and I'm a little disappointed that my fellow Paul supporters are so quick to judge others, few as we are.
Hillsdale appears to be a neo-con college on little evidence more than being endorsed by Hannity or Rush or whoever the flavor of the month is. The college is very nervous, as it knows that it has supporters on multiple sides of the conservative-libertarian spectrum, and it is a very delicate balance to strike in this country at the moment, so it would be kind of you lot to NOT sow discord within the ranks. Leave the libel to the progressives.
Truth is, most students are attracted to and arrive at Hillsdale as far-right, hawkish conservatives ... and graduate with a new-found love of free markets, self-government, the Western tradition, and of course, the U.S. Constitution. Yes, Hillsdale tends to transform neo-cons into varieties of libertarians. I swear to it, I've heard the story again and again from graduates. Even among the current students, the campus is overflowing with Ron Paul supporters. A fifth of the students recently signed a petition to bring the Doctor to campus. The surrounding county (Hillsdale) voted more favorably for Ron Paul in 2008 than any else in Michigan. And let's not forget that Dr. Paul espouses and frequently quotes in his books the late Russell Kirk, non-interventionist father of American conservatism, who made his legacy teaching at Hillsdale College, where his personal writings are housed to this day, just like Ludwig von Mises' personal library. Hillsdale College is in fact a gold mine of truly classical education, not indoctrination.
If "adampeart" and the others have counter-evidence to offer, I welcome it. Otherwise, be grateful that you and Dr. Paul have an ally amongst prestigious American higher education after all. Oh, and enjoy the free class.
Thanks
I think it is worth a look regardless. So, is anyone currently taking it?
Our All is at Stake, and the little Conveniencys and Comforts of Life, when set in Competition with our Liberty, ought to be rejected not with Reluctance but with Pleasure.
---George Mason (1769)
**truth is treason in the empire of lies**
Thanks for the review, Juror
Thanks for the review, Juror Number Eight. So, Hillsdale houses von Mises' works? If any place had Mises' works, I think the Mises Institute would. But maybe there are enough originals to go around, eh?
By the way, does your screen name regard the classic movie Inherit the Wind? There's another movie I'd ask you whether your name stems from, but I just don't remember it. The movie is fairly old in which one jury member was the lone vote against every other juror's indictment against the defendent, a young man charged with something I forgot. As the movie progressed, the lone juror's argument persuaded more and more jurors to reconsider their conclusions. Eventually his argument persuaded every or almost every juror to his side, that evidence to indict the young man was insufficient, making him innocent. You wouldn't happen to know that movie, would you? I'd like to watch it again. It's a good one.
School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of learning. -Me
Sure!
Sorry for the confusion, A-B--B-A. The college houses Mises' personal LIBRARY, not his works; those are indeed with the Institute, I imagine.
You're right, the movie is "12 Angry Men" (1957). It is one of my very favorites. A fine example of the art of consensus-building. In 2007, the U.S. finally decided to preserve it as a national treasure amongst works of art and literature.
Thanks for your reply and
Thanks for your reply and rememberance of that movie. Yeah, 12 Angry Men! Great movie. I'm going to have to watch it! Don't forget Inherit the Wind!
School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of learning. -Me