-18 votes

It's no wonder you guys cannot successfully spread Dr. P's message of liberty

I love you guys, but the stuff I read on this forum is a perfect example of why Dr. Paul's supporters are unable to successfully spread his valuable message beyond a hardcore group.

And it's really tragic.

Dr. Paul is known for a dry and technical way of speaking, and that's fine for him. It works for him, he's been doing it forever and he's not going to change. But his supporters do not have this excuse.

The stuff I read on this forum is about the Federal Reserve. Austrian Economics. Constitutional Law. FEMA encampments maybe. All interesting stuff.

Rarely, if ever, mentioned is that a group of traitors have hijacked this country and have it by the balls. THAT'S who Ron Paul is trying to save us from. He can't talk about it directly because this will get him shut out of the mainstream media even more than he already is.

He cannot talk about it, but we can. So let's start!

I've discussed these issues on this forum before, without much success or feedback. And you know what? I don't really care. I'm not doing this for my own popularity, folks. I'm doing it for ALL OF US.

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I am an excellent extemporaneous speaker.

I also blog my fingers numb about liberty and the NWO in adequate prose in combination with links and prodigious debate skills.
Sure I've convinced some on the veracity of Dr. Pauls integrity and the certainties of liberty when we follow the constitution as our basis for governance. But in the long view those conversions are few and far between. That's in no way an indication of my cessation, rather it is an indication of indignation. Indignation at the inability of far too many Americans to adhere to the proper functionings of this Republic in governance, liberty, and coporate endeavor.
Far too many see inalienable rights as just those that convenience themselves when they happen upon a need of them and not as rights inalienable to everyone. Far to many more are blasé, feeling a reticence to speak out, be thought less of, goaded by fear based upon what others think if them, ego driven fears. Still others by into the hobgoblins under every rock preached to them by the MSM. And fail to properly vette the source of those hobgoblins, normally our very own governments constructs.
Then there are those who are intransigent, adhering to the NWO mantra of " social justice", " sustainable development" and "diversity". These be they leftist socialist proponents, or NeoCon fascists are unlikely to do more than vomit the normal hyperbol in all directions when the subject is broached, as they think to gain personally when the Global cabbal assumes control. Foolish tools not understanding the inevitable end for such as themselves has historically been a mass shallow grave with no marker to commemorate their insipid natures logical conclusion.
We do indeed live in interesting times, all the more reason to elect Ron as our next President.

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

I think our message is in the right track

Well, when you think about the demographics of the people who actually showed up and spread the words, it's better to have messages about issues that matters rather than rhetorical phrases that are only the outline of things. I think we're pretty good with getting into the real substances that motivate the liberty movement in the first place, and that's what important.
Sure we're trying to convert people, but we can't be like the media covering the B.S> they're saying with pretty meaningless words, but rather actual "dry" scenerios as you call it, bare and laid out. Again, we're trying to be reasonable when talking to people, and it's not a very good start if you started with the exclamation that the one they supports are traitors who hijacked the countries. We want members that understands and stays with the movement with their heart AND mind so even if election cycle end, the ideas live on and spread still!

"Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed."~Mahatma Gandhi
Quick Humorous Satire course on Ron Paul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_65316&...

I understand your impatience

And I am excited by your willingness to keep going.

I despair often. We are all poor communicators. We dont have a perfect communicator. What the Honorable Dr. Ron Paul is is one determined son of a bitch who will fail year after year, decade after decade and yet keep coming, keep finding just a few more who are open to a message of freedom -- right at that moment, and then they're sold, and he's made progress.

Do you have part of his level of perseverance in you? Where will you be in 40 years? Will you have given up, or will you be as surprised as I with the product of a lifetime fighting for human freedom? I never thought I would ever see something like this! Sure we're a far way, and yes, the road has been very hard, and we're still a long way off, but progress has been made -- and it's coming at an increasing rate.

Sure, human freedom should be sold easier and faster. But humans suffered under totalitarianism for most of our history. Only briefly has human freedom blossomed. And progress is often swallowed by dictatorship quite quickly.

We're all trying things that make sense to us and match our particular skills and preferences. Don't focus your energies here within this insiders' group. Good luck on your external outreach. Continuing to show up to fight is the most important success criteria.

Don't Vote For Ron Paul for anything less than
Re[love]ution & Renaissance
Dennis

Thank you my friend :)

Interesting take, a small group of liberty lovers got together

In 2006-2007 and started a campaign out of nothing. We set presidential fund raising records by individual donations, flew a blimp advertising our candidate, we made homemade signs and clothes to support Dr. Paul, all during a complete media blackout. We took on the media, the establishment that had not only years of experience, but cash and corruption on a level never before seen. We took on Neo Conservatives, Liberals, and status quo that had en-grained their ideals via the MSM outlets running propaganda 24/7 to most all American homes. Our candidate, our ideals, our relentless shouting from the mountain top has done more for Liberty than the entire list of third parties combined have over the last 50 years.

I am not trying to offend you, but I think some of us at times need to open our eyes farther and see how far we have come. In the 80's and 90's to believe in liberty and the constitution made you virtually invisible, yet today our ideals are topics in the MSM and in America's dining rooms. We now hold the power to sway elections due to our increase in numbers, and the constitution is talked about in many more circles, and Americans are starting to wake up.

I do not find your post offensive simply because to say what you have is a simplistic view of what is occurring in our country, and how we have opened the eyes of so many. I know that I have personally converted hundreds if not thousands by spreading the message non stop for years. So by your standards of success we have failed, by histories standards it will show the Ron Paul revolution ignited a beacon of a free people standing up for their rights and their nation from the hands of tyrants. So I apologize that we do not meet your standards, but I must say in my 10 presidential elections I have never seen the energy, the forward thinking ideas spread around, nor the talk of true liberty as I have since 2006, and that alone in a nation of sheep is something to behold and a success in it's own rights.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

What you have done is awesome

It is great (which is why I said I love you guys) and I don't wish to impugn your efforts. I just want to see us on a trajectory where "too late" doesn't come before "success." Right now, to me, the competing trajectories don't look good in that regard. I hope for all of our sakes that I'm wrong.

It's a big message

covering a wide variety of issues, social, economic, global. One could say that the future of humanity is on the line, this may very well be true. But each of us have our own gifts and talents, our own social circles and sphere of influence, and I think we all do our best to make the best use of our time and get the most production from our efforts. This post was not the best use of that time, IMO.

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

That's a good page

A lot of helpful info on that page... including about Israel.

adfs

adfs

FYI, "The Most Dangerous Superstition" By Larken Rose

covers this matter quite well.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

I FUCKING LOVE LARKEN

I FUCKING LOVE LARKEN ROSE!!!!

His writing is some of the best on liberty ever.

He is our generations Lysander Spooner!!!!

Ron thinks we have not done a good job...

I almost have to lol at this post as I find it odd to say the least. I find it odd considering over the past 2 months, on no fewer than a half dozen occasions Ron has said [paraphrasing] "where those of us who know and understand the liberty message have not done a very good job in the past, and could stand to do a better job in the future, is in the area of educating the public on the beneficial value of charity in a free society vs the failure of welfare in a society dictated to by the state."

I respect your opinion and I appreciate your suggestion on the matter. I just don't think he could be more clear about what/where we need improvement spreading the message.

Well...

Well then, we should listen to Ron first. I wasn't aware of that quote.

Still doesn't change my mind about where I see the shortcomings, though... But that's just my personal opinion. (Albeit one that I have pelted you all with like so much scattershot...)

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP

Unfortunately, instead of stating the obvious, that this election is not for the president of Israel, there are a good number of folks here who are tripping all over each other trying to show how pro-Israel RP is. Treason is the disease. Everything else is a symptom. And an Israel association is THE red flag to watch out for. It seems too many people are worried about reputation, which has it's merit. But if we can't tell the truth, we'll never solve the problem. Solutions?

Solutions

As far as solutions, I've suggested before that a small part of the solution could be for Paulites & others to directly campaign against or protest notorious "Israel-Firsters," such as Sheldon Adelson (Gingrich's backer), or AIPAC leadership, or any number of Congresspeople.

It won't solve the problem but it will at least raise the cost of doing business for these people and raise some awareness.

Wouldn't it be simple for just a handful of people to stand outside Adelson's casino and hand out literature explaining his disloyalty -- and nicely remind potential customers that there are other great casinos just around the corner?

Just one example. I'm always willing to work with anyone to develop a strategy.

It's the economy stupid

In an election that everyone knew from the very beginning was going to be all about the economy and American jobs, those like Santorum and Gingrich who go tripping-off down the road to the middle east and fear and Israel and war and Iran and 9-11, are straying off the path to winning this election. I hate to use the James Carville quote, but like the 1992 recession year election this 2012 election "it's the economy stupid" IS stating the obvious.

But that's just it. IT's NOT the economy!

And so long as people think it is, they can't appreciate all that RP brings to the table. If you haven't been taught that radiation can kill you, then you won't care about the person providing the led vests. (or some other colorful analogy). If people keep seeing Obama as the main problem, then how are you gonna sell them on RP, when really any replacement would do.

I couldn't disagree with you

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Believe me.. I WISH that were the case....that there were a group of indivuals that are subverting the true will of the people (a la NinteenEightyFour).

If this were the case, the solution, while not easy to implement, is at at least easy to forumlate. There is an easily identified "good guy" (most everyone) and an easily identified "bad guy" (this secret cabal) and it's only a matter of infiltrating them and defeating them, upon which everyone is immediatly free from their spell and proceeds to sing praises like the munchkins once the Wicked Witch is killed ("ding don the witch is dead the wicked witch").

However unlike the "NinteenEightyFour" case above, where innocent people are oppressed against their will by a select group of evil people, I think the truth is far more complicated. I think it's closer to a "Brave New World" type scenario. If youre not familar with the two works - while in 1984 the "bad guys" are easily identified, in Brave New World, the people actually WANT to be enslaved and the leaders are merely filling a void demanded by toe people. In Brave New World, any attempts to "free" them by challenging the authority of the leaders or destroying their SOMA doesn't result in the protagonist being hailed as a hero, but casues the common folk to attack him. Whereas in 1984, the people WANT to be free and its a secret group physically preventing this case, in Brave New World, the people don't even seem to WANT freedom. They WANT the wicked witch. If you kill her, far from singing praises, they just elect a new witch.

Again, I hope youre right and it's a simple matter of merely finding a few puppet masters and removing their power. Because if youre wrong and my Brave New World hunch is right, simply removing a few elites does nothign to change the underlying desire of people to WANT the elites in teh first place.

Excellent analysis

It is unfortunate that we still have a long way to go to persuade people that freedom is preferable to subjugation.

A great example of this is just yesterday with the news that Rand Paul is holding up a bill to outlaw new synthetic drugs that 99% of other senators will probably vote for. On this site, we all know how damaging the war on drugs can be, but the politicians and media still respond like Pavlov's dogs to the call to outlaw any new possibly recreational drug.

They just cannot get beyond the idea that if it might hurt someone then it should be illegal, even if any use of the drug is strictly voluntary. Every politician "knows" that people cannot be trusted with freedom.

tldr summary to my above: In

tldr summary to my above:

In the 1984 conspiracy theory case, even though the solution of hunting down and removing the evil cabal is physically difficult, it is morally ambigious. If Superman were to come to earth he could solve this problem.

However if the Brave New World scenario is correct, where most people actually WANT to be slaves, Superman himself couldn't solve the problem with just more and more doses of brute force. You can't force people to embrace freedom.

I am very very reluctantt o fall intot he mindset that it is a "them" problem and the reason the world lacks more liberty is simply because "them" is too powerful. Sure, that's some of it. But consider the fact that most people WANT to be slaves. What then?

Interesting

You give an interesting perspective. I would add to that, that they may not WANT slavery but may simply prefer what they're used to. Call it apathy, indifference or whatever. These same people in a free society on the brink of slavery would probably prefer freedom, not necessarily for freedom's sake, but just because that's what they're used to. In other words, there may be too many people out there who are simply willing to just go with the flow. That would be unfortunate.

They don't "want" slavery...

They want Mommy.

Freedom is my Worship Word!

yea. And while i do admit

yea. And while i do admit that there are people with severe vested interestes in the status quo and people who do profit from wars, taxes, inflation, at the expense of all the rest of us, I do think that simply assuming that without them the world would be a liberty paradise is naive... and a false sense of security... and giving WAY too much credit to the average man.

Even if one were to imprison all the rosthchilds.. even if one were to have a way to GUARANTEE fair elections that accuratly represent the will of the people... I STILL think that a majority of them WANT some sort of Alpha dog to lead them, to feed them lies that "everything will be ok" etc.

People want to be led. Sure, some evil people are currently doing the leading. But lacking these evil people, the masses wouldn't simply 'snap out of it' and embrace indivual responsibility.

There is some truth to that

I agree, there is some truth to what you are saying unfortunately :(

I mean... I WISH it were just

I mean... I WISH it were just a situation where most people understood and embraced liberty and it was just a bunch of freemasons who were subverting the true will of the people.

Think how easy this would be to fix. We all just infiltrate the masons and then take it down fromt he inside and allow the true will of the people to be unrestrained.

But what if the true will of the people (most of them, not all) IS to be slaves. How the fuck do we fix that?!!?!?!?

It's much easier to kill one slavemaster than convince 100 slaves that they have a right to be free.

I think the truth is maybe somewhere in between

As I said, I do think there's truth to your contentions. But I tend to think it's more a situation where people have been duped into accepting slavehood, rather than simply, directly wanting to be slaves.

But it's sometimes hard to draw the line between those situations, or to prove it's one rather than the other.

Wow, I'm getting hammered in the votes :)

Well, at least at some point the entire membership will have voted against me, and it will not be able to get any worse :)