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John Bolton Insults Anti-War Iraq Vet

Hey guys, I got to confront neo-conservative war monger John Bolton on the issue of blowback during the taping of the Stossel show at last weekend's Students for Liberty Conference... and it made it on the show!

Check it out!

http://youtu.be/m4JDX0-Uo1E

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Be afraid.

Be very afraid.

For I am daBOO!da!

Seriously, isn't this more fun than name-calling?

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Where you one of those who spit on Vietnam vets

when they returned?

Think about what you just wrote and consider returning with an apology and we will forgive you just as we will forgive those who served in unjust wars.

dabooda sounds like 'the Buddha'. Try meditating on Buddha's compassion.

"The world is a dynamic mess of jiggling things, if you look at it right." - Richard Feynman

I don’t spit on Vietnam Vets

I truly pity the Vietnam vets who were drafted. They faced a horrible choice, and chose to give up their freedom, instead of fighting for it. I don’t respect them and I certainly don’t admire them. If you want to forgive those who serve in unjust wars, that’s certainly your prerogative. And mine, not to.

I hold myself responsible for my own actions, and expect to pay the cost of any injury I do to others. I expect the same of others, and I truly despise those who use the excuse of “authority” to justify participation in murder, assault, enslavement, and all the other abuses governments are prone to.

“Compassion is the fellow-feeling of the unsound. Those who understand evil pardon it : those who resent it destroy it” – George Bernard Shaw.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Nice.

Nice.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Were hitler and his officers

Were hitler and his officers the only bad guys in WW2 or were all those boots "just following orders" bad too? How about "our boys" at My Lai? Or the poor kids "just following orders" to torture and sexually humiliate suspects at our current day "detention facilities"? Not similar remotely? Then hypocrisy is afoot.

Spoken like a true Pharisee

"God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector (i.e. thug oppressor)"

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
Thomas Jefferson

The wisdom of the Pharisees

You’re confusing Shakespeare’s Iago with the real, historical Pharisees. Iago was a fictional character and a hypocrite, not a true Pharisee.

A gentile once challenged the (real) Pharisee sage Hillel to explain the law while standing on one foot. Hillel lifted a foot and replied, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your friend. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary.”

Yes, I do damn-well respect that, and “Pharisee” should not be used as a term of derision.

If you meant to accuse me of hypocrisy, I’m sorry to say I’ve never black-bagged, kidnapped, tortured, killed, or deliberately injured anyone.

And I suggest you re-read your own signature line: "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." Do you DARE to criticize me for speaking out against the tyrant-tools who black-bag, kidnap and torture random folk? Shall we re-name you “Iago”?

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Screw you, dude.

Some of us were raised on MSM lies. My dad still thinks there were WMDs in Iraq. If you never fell for the whole Iraq deception, congratulations, but it's not because you're smarter or more moral than me. You're just lucky to not have been quite as brainwashed as the average person. And seriously, you're saying you've NEVER believed a lie before? What about Santa Claus? You never believed in that lie either?

So stupidity IS an inheritable trait..

No, I never fell for the Iraq thing. I never fell for the Afghanistan thing, either. And if I HAD believed that someone in Afghanistan or Iraq had something to do with the 9/ll attack, I would still not have supported acts of war against the entire populations of those countries. I would have supported Dr. Paul’s proposal of issuing letters of marque and reprisal against those individuals responsible. I don’t believe in attacking a whole country full of innocent folks, just because of a few murderers in their midst. I devoutly hope the millions of people wronged and terrorized by our government are equally discriminating, or we will be seeing a lot more "terrorist" attacks in the future, Which everyone except US citizens will see as "justice."

Yes, I believed in Santa Claus, and I’m grateful to my parents for telling me that lie. It taught me to trust my own judgment – not to believe improbable-sounding tales on someone else’s say-so. I decided that I was an atheist shortly after I got the awful news about Santa. I read Rand's Atlas Shrugged and Lysander Spooner’s No Treason while I was still in high school, and gave up my faith in government before I was old enough to do the sort of harm that David West now has on his conscience. My real education was the result of my own thinking, and reading books I was NOT given in school. Government schoolteachers fed me the same propaganda that they likely fed you, and my parents were just as dim about politics as your dad. I learned to cut through the crap. So I’m going to say that “luck” had precious little to do with the way I turned out. I value my brain too much to allow strangers to wash it.

All things considered, I DO seem to be both smarter and more moral than you are. Dude.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

But every blindly following

But every blindly following child who became a brownshirt because they wanted to help their family and their country and did not necessarily know about the horrors their superiors were planning and thought they were doing the right thing is a war criminal and we have to hunt every last living one down to the ends of the earth? If we acknowledge that every member of the Nazi party from the ones raised from childhood on massive unrelenting propaganda to the scum that planned it have the same level of responsibility, then every response to this person's comment is hypocritical.

So you think you know so much?

dabooda - While your anger is truly justified, the direction of it is not. I would urge you to aim it at someone who is not yet part of the solution as David most obviously is. In your post you displayed an enormous amount of wisdom and at the same time the same level of ignorance with which you accused David of.

You blame "Mr. West" (I consider "Mr." a concealed insult) for his previous ignorance. You speak with the condemnation of someone who has never been ignorant. I'll bet my LIFE that David did what he thought was right given the information that he had at the time. I make that same bet that he wasn't interested in being anyone's hero and he's not now. He only WISHES that people would listen to him because he now knows much more about the truth. Real heroes do not do what they do in order to be put up on some pedestal, they do what they do because they are built that way. They do it because they are NOT capable of doing something that is against their conscience.

David, you have my utmost respect, as well as my forgiveness for the things you may have done. Had I not been educated by a FRIEND (since I had the same "news" available to me as well back during desert shield) during the soul searching I did when deciding whether to enlist, I may have been right there with you and since I'm a bit older than you are it may have been ME giving you the orders.

David: Thanks for standing up there and doing the right thing even though your heart was probably pounding as you were praying the words would come out right. You are MY hero today! Welcome to the right side of history. May God allow us to be the ones who write it.

I blamed him for assault and kidnapping, not ignorance.

I don't blame Mr. West for his ignorance. I understand it. I blame him for black-bagging people on the say-so of liars and war criminals. I hold him responsible for his own actions, just as I hold myself responsible for MY own actions. People aren't robots; we're free individuals, each of us responsible for our own own lives, our own actions and for the content of our own character.

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." -- George Bernard Shaw

One other thing -- I referred to him as "Mr. West" because I didn't feel right putting myself on a first-name basis with someone I don't know, but felt compelled to criticize. I thought calling him "David" would have sounded condescending. Referring to him by some military rank WOULD have been an insult, to my way of thinking, so I couldn't do that either. "Mr. West" was the best I could do by way of "respectful criticism," and no insult was intended by it. If my subsequent conversations with him are friendly, I'll call him David, gladly.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Actually, I didn't just, "go along with the program in Iraq."

After I saw what was happening, it didn't take me much time to wake up and realize that I wasn't fighting bonafide terrorists. I started getting pretty vocal about my growing opposition to the wars before we were even done with our 4 month deployment. When I got back stateside, I started a year-long battle to get discharged as a conscientious objector. I told my chain of command that, while I was in no way a pacifist (and didn't need to be one, according to AR600-43), I could not agree to fight for the government any more.

Don't be so quick to judge someone whose story you don't know. I was NOT just a soldier who hid behind the excuse of following orders. I THOUGHT what I was doing would be righteous. It didn't take me long to realize that it wasn't, and I course corrected as quickly as I could.

Follow Buck The System's films at:
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Self Recording

As I said, good job in talking about the wrongs you partook in and condemn.

A recommendation if you're going to be interviewed again: Bring your video recorder or video cam with you to record the session. Either you or a friend can record it, then post it. Doing that should confirm deceit found using the source's own material, which you did and is fine. Just a recommendation I hope all RPers do from now on. Let's use our own devices to make sure they're honest.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Then I apologize.

You didn't tell the whole story before, and your conduct does you credit. But it wasn't me you terrorized or injured, and it's not my moral judgment that matters here. It's really yours. So tell me, do you figure you've made sufficient amends for the harm you did to innocent folk in Iraq? Do you figure those folks you helped black-bag would forgive you, if they knew what you have done since then? I hope they would; it seems like you have behaved in an exemplary manner. I agree with another poster in saying that a mistake only becomes an error if you don't correct it. I think you have. Well done.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

and many NEVER correct

"A mistake only becomes an error if one refuses to correct it."

Don't mind that yagmar

He's too self absorbed in our righteous dogma for those who facilitate the system. As long as you did what's right, and you honor your oath to Constitution now and forever. An oath is for life and while I've never served, brother I honor that same oath to our rights and the document that embodies those ideas.

a little overly critical for someone who's never been there.

it is most likely that in the soldiers situation, that they are given a very convincing reason as to why they are there and why they are doing what they're doing. So being naive (as everyone is at some time) they follow along as im sure 99% of most people would. You criticize the soldiers for following orders and for that they are "Stupid, deluded, immature children" That is untrue, im sure on more than one occasion in your life you have been sold something that later on you realized that, maybe it wasn't a good idea. does that make you stupid? no. it makes you human. The soldiers that follow orders are not to blame. i'm pretty sure they are just trying to survive and make it home alive, which is understandable.

It's easy for you to criticize them from the comfort and safety of your own home, and find it easy to tell the difference between right and wrong. but i guarantee you that if YOU were over there, that line that separates right and wrong is not so easy to see when you're being shot at. like Jesus said. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do". if anyone is to blame its the government and the small minority of the bad apples. So Mr. West, you are my hero, for being human.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes, before you criticize him?

That way, when he comes after you, you've got a mile head start, and he's running barefoot!

Seriously, that particular bromide has never made sense to me. Does one have to be a murderer oneself to say that murder is wrong? Is my moral judgment defective because I've never been stupid or evil enough to even consider joining the military? I came of age in the late 60's, and the threat of conscription convinced me that the greatest enemy of my own life, liberty and property is the U.S. government. I am not so holy as to never have made a mistake, but I don't make the one of believing that injuring innocent people is okay as long as some "authority" tells me to do it. I take responsibility for my own actions. I expect others to do the same. Mr. West seems to be doing exactly that, and good on him.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

I disagree

Dabooda. While I agree with your view that those in the know should not sign up to serve evil, I do not think it is fair to judge others who may not have benefited from the same experience as you--remember that Moses himself killed a man before becoming a prophet.

Once in country, I doubt civilians like us know how hard it is to fight the system while deployed--and I doubt if any of us wants to be tested in that situation.

Let's leave judgement to God and just appreciate troops who support liberty and justice for all.

Hey GOP, where's my vote?

If they supported liberty and justice for all

they wouldn't be troops. Liberty and justice are served by self-defense, protecting our lives, liberty and justly acquired property. Which is something our military hasn't done in my lifetime. What the troops actually do is serve as bully boys and hired killers for politicians who are, generally speaking, some of the most evil folk on the planet.

I don't believe in God. I do believe that every human being is responsible for his own actions, and for making his own moral judgment about what conduct is right or wrong. Refusing to name evil when you see it is cowardly; leaving judgment to God is a cop-out.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

I'm not a violent man...

but im amazed that you didnt walk up on stage and beat the piss out of him. I would have...

send him to Afghanistan

all these warmongers should be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan.
and IF they make it back in 2-3 yrs, then we can have a debate about the wars.

----------------------------
Dr.Ron Paul's 2002 Predictions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

Do unto others what you want

Do unto others what you want others to do unto you.

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Bolton and his ilk are all

Bolton and his ilk are all experts at deflection, note the jab about honor, like he knows fuck all about honor.
The ultimate responsibility for all actions taken by the armed forces must always rest on the idiots in charge and when you get a chance to hit these guys in an open forum always dump that in their lap because they sabotage themselves with their answers. You can't go blaming the privates when the news cameras are on you.

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Bolton is nothing but a lying

Bolton is nothing but a lying neocon POS. I read somewhere in this thread where someone commented that Bolton and Faux news should be tried for their lies, their deceptions, and their treason. I could not agree more. Thank you, Ranger for your willingness to serve your country and for your courage to speak truth to what you witnessed while you were there. Thank you, and I hope you are able to let go of all that you probably saw and/or witnessed while you were there. The mind needs to heal too.

Larry in North Carolina
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to not support Ron Paul!

David had his sleeves rolled up,

The guy that got the applause they were rolled down.

its this kind of thing that scares the heck out of me, total mind control.

Another quote from John Robert Bolton

"I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy. I considered the war in Vietnam already lost."

John Bolton hid in the National Guard from going to Vietnam. He was too afraid to go to war himself, now this son of a bitсh wants to send other young people there. People like him make me sick.

F&*king FOX News Should Be Prosecuted For War Crimes And TREASON

GREAT JOB RANGER!

WE ARE ALL PROUD OF YOU.

Stossel should apologize if he is not part of the problem... but I suspect he is part of the problem.

.