Do I belong here?
Edit:
I'm not going to sensor anyone here, but I think I have heard enough. Yep, I have some disagreements with people. But it looks like most people are sensible after all. I think that was important to get out, because it brings to everyone's attention that even from within some of the ideas are so strong that they are becoming a distraction.
So in short I'd be happy to let this thread die now.
The main substantiative difference between myself and many other's here seems to be the way we think about the constitution. I think of the constitution as the basis for our government, the highest law in the land, something that should be respected. Other's view it, seemingly, as the greatest document ever written. I get suspicious of such views. Invocations of founding father's as deities etc. It is good rhetoric but I prefer to leave it as that.
We have a good constitution. However, the founding father's knew they wouldn't be perfect that is why it can be amended.
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Here follows the original post:
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I read a lot of posts here. But often I feel like I don't belong.
Ron Paul has my respect but many of you do not.
I do not wish this to be a thread of discord. I simply want to know how many people out there are like me.
I couldn't care less about the NAU, CFR, or not being able to own any gun I wish.
Why because these things are not important? Of course they are. But I am not a hyper-nationalist. If I live in a country that is called the United States or Amero makes no difference to me.
What matters to me is my freedom.
I find it hard to believe that everyone who joins any organization believes the same thing. People can choose to be members of things to listen. Get that listen to other people's ideas. Listening doesn't mean you subscribe to them.
On gun law's my interpretation of the 2nd amendment is that the citizens should be armed enough to be able to protect the country via militias and the the government should not have a monopoly on arms as a protection against government repression. Honestly, do you believe having gun A vs gun B in some tiny percentage of homes would make the difference to either of these things?
To me this is an issue like abortion I wish people would just stop talking about and pandering to. I do not care.
What I care about is mine and your individual rights. The rights to our productivity and the freedom to live in society with minimal coercion.
I've been told to stop taking pictures in public places I have lived all my life because of security fears. It is that kind of paranoia that I am against.
I am for the logical conclusion, that terrorists are a small number of people and you can never have the security to stop a few people who are willing to blow themselves up to accomplish their goals. Not without a blood bath I do not wish to participate in or a complete loss of privacy and freedom.
I find Paul's ideas on monetary policy interesting but not conclusive. The Austrian school has an important view point, but it is not the only view point.
In short I listen and am eager to hear what others have to think. In an open and free society I believe we should all do this, and not dogmatically stick to our own narrow views.
It is one thing to have convictions, but is another to be arrogant and close minded. Name calling, bashing and flaming are the ways of small people. Enlighten people listen and tirelessly point out the reasons why they disagree with respect. And they listen with an open mind one capable of change and not simply of hate.
I try to be that kind of person, but many people here do not seem to embrace it preferring the spouting of pejorative labels to real discussion.
I will never label someone the word neocon with hate. I will never disregard someone's opinion because they belong to the CFR. I will listen until I hear what they say and judge it on the merits I hear.
Ron Paul
maryj Don't bump this again please
Liberty is our campaigns gift to the world it is our manifest destiny.
Freedom is a movement who's time has come. Our campaign will lead world wide freedom.
There are many that do not agree
with Dr. Paul on all issues, but we have this that binds us together in common cause:
That we are believers in the freedom and liberty of all people, that we are endowed our rights by our creator (whether or not that creator is conscious and cognizant of what he has bestowed may be subject to personal perspective), that that endowment comes from a higher authority than any government which may be established, that it is the prime obligation of government to protect those rights and liberties of all individuals, that whenever government trespasses against those rights, it is a usurpation of power from the people and an illegal act by government powers.
If you believe this, then you are in the right place. If not, then God speed on your journey through life and may you find that which you seek.
Free country, brother
Go where you want to go and believe how you want to believe. Say what you want to say and say to whomever you wish to say it to. Write what you want and go where you want.
Turn your nose up at one bunch and thrown in your lot with another. Ain't nobody's business but your own.
With research, you will discover that the above listed is available to you because the federal government allows it FOR NOW.
That may change momentarily, but, until then do the freedom thing. Enjoy!
You need me to convince you of this?.......We are all in deep trouble if we need me to convince anybody of anything.
We want it more than they do....which is one of the many reasons I don't hang around with "they."
T
Unify
Dr. Paul Can win, if...
My opinion is that in order for Dr. Paul to be nominated and get elected, he needs to reach and "touch" most voters. Since most voters are moderates, Dr. Paul needs to put all of his efforts to promote and explain few issues that most voters care about, such as:
1. Bring our troops home and increase (improve) our defense. We may still have carriers throughout the international waters to protect our interest quickly if needed.
2. Security and taking care of our borders.
3. Reducing taxes and spending by reducing the size of government. Protecting freedom and liberty, free enterprise and personal responsibility will come from reducing the size of government.
With a very few exceptions, Dr. Paul can not implement these issues without the support of Congress. In my opinion, his plans and visions for the issues above can be supported by Congress and the American people.
Others issues such as returning to gold standard, creating competing currency, abolishing the IRS and the Fed Res, gun control, abortion, CFR ...etc, should be avoided or toned down. These kind of issues ARE NOT on the minds of most voters. Perhaps this is why a 3rd party candidate can not be elected, maybe in 100 years. We can tackle some of these issues during Dr. Paul's second term.
affirmation: President Paul
affirmation: President Paul 2008
What I love about Dr. Paul is that he makes us all think, debate, question and research things that may initially sound foreign to us. His volunteers are creative and dedicated and, although we may not always agree with him or, for that matter, each other, one of his messages is to simply be respectful and honest. How refreshing...It's disheartening how both his party and the media treat him - not to mention transparent!! He is so trustworthy and honest. For the sake of this country and the world, we must spread the word. I love this guy:)
affirmation: President Paul 2008
affirmation: President Paul
affirmation: President Paul 2008
What I love about Dr. Paul is that he makes us all think, debate, question and research things that may initially sound foreign to us. His volunteers are creative and dedicated and, although we may not always agree with him or, for that matter, each other, one of his messages is to simply be respectful and honest. How refreshing...It's disheartening how both his party and the media treat him - not to mention transparent!! He is so trustworthy and honest. For the sake of this country and the world, we must spread the word. I love this guy:)
affirmation: President Paul 2008
Yes, but don't leave
I agree with just about everything you said. I disagree with Ron Paul on immigration and the pro-life issue, but otherwise I think he is an exceptional candidate.
There are many people on this website, some more emphatic than others. I simply don't pay attention to things I read that I don't necessarily agree with.
The IMPORTANT part about this site is that it is a conduit for organizing the grassroots campaign, for letting people know what, when and where things are going on.
I see all the new interviews because I come here, I see good places to spend my hard-earned cash supporting RP, and I found out about both money bombs....here.
Regardless of whether you agree with everyone or not, it's a useful place to meet.
brianb, Do you want your own FREEDOM?
Then get $30-35M of your own money, go buy yourself one of those reclaimed ISLANDS for sale off the coast of Dubai, and live happily ever.
Maybe you don't belong here. Part of me thinks you are trying to stir the pot, which if that is the case, you did a great job from what I read below. Since you just joined the dailypaul "team" 5 weeks ago, sounds like you need more time to understand what we are all about, rather take a few cheap shots on a computer screen like you did above.
Reminds me of a saying I have seen long ago: "Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics..." For those who know what I am talking about, fill in the blanks accordingly.
John E.
r/s
John R. Ellis
"Citizen for Freedom"
BrianB, I know you wrote
BrianB, I know you wrote that you'd like to let this thread die. But I wanted to throw my 2 cents in...why not, I've got things to say too. :)
First, I really appreciate your pragmatic approach, and as such your proclamation that you're a scientist does not surprise me one bit. 'Real' scientists overwhelmingly have this trait, and objectivity is a good thing.
But I just wanted to address one statement of yours:
You're absolutely right about this. It's not the only view point, but that doesn't mean any other view point has any significant merit, because they all have major short comings.. some more than others. The biggest, in my humble opinion is that no other school of thought actually takes into consideration the free nature of human beings and the free will they exercise. It is really the only (current) view point that reasonably explains the economical events of history; and as such it is the only (current) view point likely to accurately predict future effects of current causes.
then delete the thread
and go out and get some votes. Here's how:
http://voters.ronpaul2008.com/grassrootscentral.test/signup.php
I agree with you...
Hang in there.... so many people....so many points of view....I myself disagree with Ron on immigration....I did vote for Ron in 1988. That 1980's Ron Paul was very distrustful and full of good criticism of the INS. The INS, in my view, is worse than the IRS....since it requires Tax Returns, plus many more documents and fees, and documents and fees, and documents and fees, and its never ending to be "legal".
I like the libertarian BLUE CARD solution to the Mexican "illegal" crises. But Ron never brings that up these days. I forgive him, he has already enough battles.
But what I would like to POINT OUT something of a warning to the Ron Paul Anti-Mexican crowd and ALEX JONES-TYPE Ron Paulers and even the 9/11 skeptics...... is this:
Arguing that the Federal Government SHOULD/MUST/ "Protect our Borders" in an OPEN and FREE SOCIETY, makes it no longer and open and free society, it makes it ONE STEP CLOSER to becoming a CLOSED FACIST society where --sure they can't get in--- BUT WE CANNOT GET OUT either.
Remember, a Fence, an ID Card, denying a businessman's right to hire WHO he/she wants, is TAKING a LIBERTY Away and placing the Federal Government in charge to say, "Dos Papers Comrad".
Think about it....... I know you know what I am talking about..... the freedom to enter and LEAVE a country is tied together and VERY important indeed.
Treg
Blue Card immigration solution
For those of you who do not know already , the Blue Card is issued to every Canadian and Mexican national after a police background check. The blue card alows both Mexican Nationals and Canadian Nationals to enter freely into the USA. This measure is ment only to keep murders and criminals and TERRORISTs out of the Country.
There is alot more to it....
Peace out.
Treg
How can you have freedom if you can't own a gun
then I have lost that freedom. Members of the CFR are traitors to this country and are working for the establishment of a North American Union which will eventually be consolidated in to a New World Order. You don't believe in freedom. You are right you don't belong here! I can't believe this guy he is actually endorsing the NAU.
He says it makes no difference if he lives in America or amero. What you don't realize is that we will no longer have our freedom then. You are a jerk!
Who doesn't belong here?
I'm fairly sure by the post above that eilif doesn't have a clue about RP's philosophy. He may understand the issues, but the underlying philosophy is FREE ASSOCIATION. Yes, eilif, you go on thinking that that automatic weapon will protect you against the government's helicopters and SWAT teams.
Economics is the center of all of this. Gun rights are just an indicator of disrespect for the constitution. RP's philosphic goal is beating down and containing the STATE through policy. It sounds to me like BrianB understands that more than eilif.
It seems the majority
It seems the majority disagrees with you, so I will stay, and I won't even call you names.
How can you have freedom if you can't own a gun
then I have lost that freedom. Members of the CFR are traitors to this country and are working for the establishment of a North American Union which will eventually be consolidated in to a New World Order. You don't believe in freedom. You are right you don't belong here!
I would suggest
I would suggest you look at their record, rather than"listen" to what they say.
They say alot of things that are misleading all the time.
Davy C Rockett
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://cystic-fibrosis-symptom.com
http://medical-definitions.com
I try to listen, if they
I try to listen, if they seem to have some good points I then research.
Clearing up the misunderstanding
How can you claim to view the constitution as the framework for government, yet not give a hoot about one of it's most fundamental provisions?
How do you expect to have your liberty if you don't have the means to defend it?
I'm concerned about the NAU, the Amero, and the influence of AIPAC and the CFR. Any single minded group which holds powerful influence over our government and directs it's policies in contravention to our liberties is dangerous to those liberties.
The above issues are areas that clearly frame the present struggle between those on the side of individual liberty and those who favor global collectivism. Mind you, under this global collectivist system that powerful people (acting in their own self interest - or worse, misinformed altruism) are feverently working towards, you will have no true liberty. And you will have no recourse against their abuses. And you will have no means to fix that sad situation.
Because you don't care about the very means to defend your liberty, you will lose it.
Freedom in the end is not
Freedom in the end is not given to you so it cannot be taken away by anyone. Freedom is in fact not giving in to coercion. A free society is something else, and the constitution supports a free society. But America does not have a monopoly on freedom. The constitution is the law and needs to be obey or amended, but it is not the only way to have a free society.
To clear up why I don't find the 2nd amendment very valuable today, you should look for another post I made about the purpose of that amendment.
My response to your earlier post
Why would common citizens need nuclear weapons to fight their own tyrannical government? Additionally, why would we need fighter jets? Obviously, any internal battles would be fought by people, on foot, outside of the scope of large bombings. People obviously would not need or want nuclear weapons. Additionally, if it came to be a time where responsible people were fighting a tyrannical government, I am confident the U.S. military would side with the people over the government. By this, I mean a responsible revolt as in the ones discussed by Thomas Jefferson. Not some willy nilly bullshit. The big military is neutered of its most ridiculous weapons on its own soil, so your speak of there being nothing one can do is ignorant. Also, who do you think would back the government using these weapons on American citizens?
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
I agree with you in regards
I agree with you in regards to guns. I believe in the second ammendment but common sense says it does not cover all arms. In regards to your general question about whether you belong here I would just offer these thoughts:
-If you are against pre-emptive wars you belong here.
-If you are in favor of personal liberty you belong here.
-If you are in favor of local communities making their own decisions you belong here.
-If you are in favor of a non-interventionist foreign policy you belong here.
-If you are against the income tax you belong here.
-If you are against our CIA meddling in the affairs of other countries you belong here.
-If you believe in free trade, peace and friendship with all nations and entangling alliances with none, you belong here.
It seems these core issues are so important that they should trump any other petty disagreements we may have.
If you don't care about my right to own a gun why should I
care about any of your rights?
If you do not care about the
If you do not care about the NAU or CFR then you have no clue why the country is being run into the ground. We are being set up to fall so the globalists elite can come in and take over where they havent already. When they start putting people who protest against anything the government does into concentration camps, you`ll say "how did this happen?" so remember this day, the day you are being warned whats coming while you still have time to prevent it. If you do not believe this to be true, all I ask is that you go read the Patriot Act and HR 1955. If you cannot see whats going on then you are part of the problem.
Ron Paul 2012
Maybe one day you can laugh
Maybe one day you can laugh at me. But right now 99.99% of the population will laugh at people like you. I hope you realize, no matter how much you care about this message how destructive it is to Paul. Your rhetoric goes too far, and everyone who doesn't already believe as you do, or isn't hyper open minded is going to blow you off. It is as simple as that. Ignoring how to best get your message across, doesn't make you more true to it, it just makes you foolish.
Hmm
Maybe that 99.99% figure you mention is the PROBLEM. I am sure there were people in Nazi Germany who stood up early and were shouted or laughed down. You'd rather be one who stands up or laughs down? You tell me...
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
brianb, Maybe one day you will get it
brianb, Maybe one day you will get it. Before you call these people foolish educate yourself on what they are talking about. Only then will you see who is being foolish.
Also see what he writes about Nationalism.
That is because he wants to do away with Nationalistic thinking so we can have an open border policy or no border just a North American Union with new laws and the end of our rights guaranteed by the US constitution.
I already have, read about
I already have, read about the CFR, NAU etc. I've read many things. I don't agree with your conclusions and consider them hasty. I'm a scientist, I need hard evidence not conjecture.
I have wondered the same thing
and so have some of my family and friends. Not about the same issues, though. That in itself says something. I have been trying to unify people to get a fundraiser going for Ron. I have been trying to unify our efforts and ideas. It is difficult work. People have called me a troll and a plant, when I and many of my family members are working the campaign unpaid as if it were a job. Some of my family members don't even want to read Daily Paul anymore over all of this sophmoric troll-calling, etc.
We are in this campaign because Ron is the greatest hope for liberty any campaign has ever seen. It's your liberty. To believe in God, or not. To raise your kids how you want to. To be free to start a small business without burdensome laws. To be free of the government making healthcare decisions for your family without your consent. To keep your own property.Whatever your belief, we all need freedom. Your ideas may be different, MY ideas may be different. But those ideas and dreams we value require freedom.'Nuff said. Ron Paul or bust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBC8nc-1r0k
delete my account!!!