The Chomsky Contradiction
Submitted by HuskerSkier on Wed, 02/29/2012 - 14:48While I do have a large amount of respect for Noam Chomsky, I find it somewhat troubling that one of our "greatest minds" doesn't seem to understand the concept of liberty. Here is a clip where comments negatively regarding Ron Paul and the libertarian philosophy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B0Q109uQ7o
In it he says "This goes for the whole libertarian philosophy... if you think it through, it's just a call for corporate tyranny"
Obviously here would be a good time to ask why corporations don't support the libertarian philosophy, since they would gain total control according to Noam. But he goes on to state why:
he says "but it's all academic, because the business world would never allow it to happen... they cannot live without a powerful nanny state."
So Noam just explains why the corporate world is against liberty - because they "cannot live without a powerful nanny state", but fails to realize this completely contradicts his statement that libertarian philosophy is a call for "corporate tyranny".
This is a contradiction that so many, especially "progressives", make. I refer to it as the "Chomsky Contradiction". Now Noam is a smart guy, and I'd love to hear him (or anyone) explain it too me (maybe I am missing something)... but maybe it's Noam who needs to "think it through".
Keep thinking Noam, keep thinking.
UPDATE: I used to have respect for Noam Chomsky, but after this discussion I no longer feel that way.
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Chomsky
brings up the old bit about Ron Paul's response to the health care question. I'm presuming that he supports universal insurance coverage. Does he ever acknowledge that increasing requirements for health insurance coverage is a major factor in the constantly increasing price of health care services?
Does he ever show concern that the marketplace intrusions that have already occurred are responsible for making it so the hypothetical coma patient's family can't afford to take care of him?
Guys like this have been advocating policies for decades that have resulted in these problems, causing real people to suffer on a daily basis. Yet, rather than show regret for those mistakes, he wants to stand behind a podium and pretend that the government can afford to save all of the hypothetical coma patients.
Simple illustrations
The concept of insurance offers a simple illustration concerning the concept of voluntary government.
But that does set aside the Elephant in the room, which is what I call Legal Crime.
If government could be ideal, could it be as simple as insurance?
If so, how do the current victims of Legal Crime get past what exists, and go to voluntary government, as voluntary government could be illustrated with the example called insurance?
Confused?
I have trouble reaching other people with my viewpoint, but it is easy to understand.
Example:
Suppose it was not against the law to pay into a new insurance product, a policy that is not mandated by anything other than common sense, and this insurance policy is offered by 10 competitive insurance providers.
A person paying into the collective collection of money, or insurance fund, will receive a benefit if the policy holder is injured by any law enforcer who enforces an involuntary law, such as the enforcement of collecting a Federal Income Tax payment from someone who refuses to pay such a payment, knowing that such a payment is no different than an extortion payment.
A person shopping for this policy has 10 competitive providers of this insurance policy offering a rate of payment and a rate of return, and the highest quality product is higher in quality than the lowest quality product in both cost and benefit, relative to the 9 lesser providers, until such time as the bar is set higher by another competitor.
Examples can be imagined as to a cost and benefit.
Premium:
20 Dollars a month paid in, or any amount less than the rate being paid as "Federal Income Tax".
Claims Paid in full:
Relocated out of the Country until such time as the Legal Trial is settled in favor of the accused, and the accused is relocated back home.
Why can't insurance be voluntary and why can't it apply to any form of threat to one's well being?
Joe
I'm really not a fan of Noam
I'm really not a fan of Noam Chomsky. I've read Failed States and one of his other books and found his blame American first perspective a little ridiculous. Chomsky, like Newt, views himself as grandiose and convinces many because he writes eloquently that he is somehow correct in his worldview. His anti-war stance also helps his following. While I disagree with America's recent foreign policy in the Middle-East, our country is still a benign power in comparison to our historical counterparts with similar military prowess.
www.RandPaulReview.com
Please Listen To This Regarding "Blame America First"
It's not blaming America; that's a logical fallacy that Rush Limbaugh uses to smear Dr. Paul.
Rather, it's acknowledging the realities of blowback:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN3EryUG0EA
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none.--Thomas Jefferson
One word
GATEKEEPER
explain it TO me,
not explain it TOO me.
If you want Chomsky to weigh your thoughts, you had better wrap them in intelligent looking English.
New Hampshire and Ecuador.
See Roderick Long...
Chomsky's Augustinian Anarchism
and
Reading Chomsky
Additionally, if corporations were the
primary reason government is not benign, how could Chomskey explain the worst democides of the last century: Stalin's murder of many millions, and Mao's, Pol Pot's, and Hitler's?
Thanks
Thanks
Thanks
Good Find.
Having that source to work on it is possible, and probably very instructive, to compare the Left Expedient Path to Liberty, competitively, alongside the Right Expedient Path to Liberty, from a Chomsky versus Paul Boundary.
I would not choose either Left or Right, since my understanding is such that the best way is Equitable Commerce, which can happen over night.
But, since so many people are polarized, either Left, or Right, it may be of grave importance to figure out where Left and Right agree, so as to formulate a workable combination of the two, in the fight, of defense, against absolute despotism.
I just started reading the links, and so I have things to do, thanks again.
EDIT:
I am very impressed by this first link on Chomsky and I have a running commentary to offer.
Example:
"Now Chomsky’s notion of the state as a crucial bulwark against “concentrations of private power” might initially seem puzzling, given that – as Chomsky’s own research has confirmed time and again – the state has historically been the chief enabler of such concentrations. But what Chomsky seems to mean is not so much that it generally acts as a bulwark now, but rather that it can be made to do so; if you’re facing a much stronger opponent (private power) who also has a sword (government power), you’re better off trying to grab the sword and use it against him than you would be simply destroying the sword."
Now that makes sense, but from the Ron Paul perspective, if I can offer an interpretation, the sword in question isn't the force sword, it is the information sword, or to use a more accurate word: CURRENCY.
Currency is economic information. How much is needed to transfer the vital matter required to make the economic engine work?
Now, as it happens, the Legal Criminals have control of that sword, that economic CURRENCY thing.
Ron Paul, as opposed to Chomsky, can see the vital need to take that sword away from the Legal Criminals, and return that sword, CURRENCY, back to honest productive people.
The thinking there has to do with economic POWER, or Surplus Wealth.
Who creates it?
Honest People create Surplus Wealth, and they do so with agreement, cooperation, division of labor, specialization, and accurate CURRENCY.
When CURRENCY is falsified, it is as if a parasite has attached itself to the Economic Engine, and a steady flow of power is siphoned off of the Economic Engine, that Sword, that parasitic, fraudulent, CURRENCY, is held by those Legal Parasites, those CRIMINALS.
So...take that away, and what happens?
Who has that Sword, once it is taken away, and who has the power to take it away?
The answer is easy. Everyone has the power to take it away, and it can be taken away over night.
Example:
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford
Here is where, in my opinion, currently, Ron Paul is ever so much more effective at helping anyone who may want to move toward Liberty, compared to the work done by Noam Chomsky, which is saying a lot, since Noam Chomsky has a wide audience, his work has immense measures of CURRENCY.
Ron Paul goes for the throat of the Beast, so to speak, or even the Heart, while Chomsky appears to prefer taking a less direct route, along the lines of treating symptoms, not causes.
There is so much more to it, but I like how the first link has offered analogy, along with direct quotes, to explain Chomsky's recipe for remedy.
EDIT:
"After all, a business can get your labour and/or possessions only if you agree to hand them over, while a government can extract these by force."
Here is where the division of 4 separate groups are not well understood, or, they are well understood but the author is using deception to discredit his targeted victims.
The Involuntary Capitalists have no problem using force and deceit, not just force, but a combination of violence with deceit, in order to enforce their will upon the victims that are targeted. Deceit is so much more effective than naked force, as victims can be led to accept their victimization, a State of being that would never exist had there been no willful application of deceit by the Legal Criminals upon the Targeted Victims.
A Confidence Man, Con-Man, can certainly get someone to hand over their earnings voluntarily, so long as words like "voluntarily" mean whatever the criminal definition is at the time the definition used fits the occasion. Fraud is fraud, it is not voluntary exchanges of surplus wealth, depending upon who you ask to define the word "is", as in the famous Clinton quote: "It depends upon what "is" is".
I am approaching the level of Spam on this forum today, so this ends my efforts to promote Liberty on this day.
Joe
Chomsky is a pig.
THIS is a guy who said, even if 911 WAS an inside job, it "happened a long time ago." Maybe someone should tell HIM that about the Holocaust.
Naom lost any credibility he may have had
some time ago. But I am still grateful for all he has done to bring awareness to a host of significant issues. I had not begun to do much critical thinking about the U.S. Government before hearing his remarks on the the genocide in East Timor, perpetrated by the Indonesians, endorsed and funded by _________.
I'll let you fill in the blank.
πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα
My opinion...
I think that his confusion comes from the confused libertarians that actually support the idea/concept of corporations. Once we libertarians get our sheet together and realize they are an artificial government construct perverting the free-market we can get rid of misconceptions such as this. If I thought the idea of corporations was in line with libertarian philosophy I might be hard pressed to disagree with him.
NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.
Well, it depends on what you mean by corporations.
As they are currently implemented in the real world, I'm in agreement with you. As they would exist in the absense of state interference, though, I don't see a problem. This is very possibly an issue of semantics: to my mind, a corporation is merely any joint ownership of a business venture by shareholders. A division of entrepreneurship, if you will. There's nothing wrong with people freely interacting like that. When you start using the state to grant favors, priveliges, special legal statuses and such to these entities, however, there's a big problem. The solution to that problem is to remove political power.
He's Great On International Matters
A great thinker and one of the good guys, even if he is misguided on some issues.
In his exchange with Christopher Hitchens following 9/11, Chomsky demonstrated himself to be the superior thinker -- no small feat as Hitchens is brilliant (take for example Hitchens's closing remarks in this death penalty debate, beginning at 2:45: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrG6p48SFhE).
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none.--Thomas Jefferson
I don't know if Chomskey stopped thinking
years ago and is simply coasting on his past laurels and pandering to his base, or if he is dishonest and knowingly twists libertarian ideas to debunk them. Since he is a revered linguist, he should be clear and precise in his understanding of libertarian concepts. His failure to understand/be truthful unfortunately misleads a lot of people who still believe in the Chomsky legend.
True this.
True this.
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Chomsky is just another inside job. His role: control conspiracy
discussion.
He explains how the media controls the discussion and explains many other things very well.
But when you push him on issues outside the walls that he acknowledges are put there artificially, he STILL gives inside job rhetoric.
There are many conspiracy controllers. They'll say just enough truth to get us to think they aren't an inside jobber, but then they steer people away from certain topics.
It's typical bait and switch.
No topic should be off the table.
I would name some people I think are inside job conspiracy controllers, but I would probably tick a LOT of people off here.
haha, you can't do that
you can't leave a teaser like that, tell us who!
haha, i can and i will
i've been booted from this site for doing so
a site is only as free as the moderators allow
First off...
Before the fed gov was involved in health care, we had a health care system that was the envy of the world...and church hospitals and charities DID take care of the poor and no one got turned away. It's the corporate-run health care system that is the RESULT of gov intervention that is leaving people to die in the streets with no "insurance".
Secondly, corporate tyranny is exactly what we currently have, and it's only gotten worse as government gets bigger. The gov permits... and actually even facilitates corporate tyranny.
It is dubious Corps would exist in a Libertarian society
Corporations are an enterprise of the state not the market
First of all Chompski is responding to what he thinks ...
happened at the debate and I blame the Media for that. Not Chompski.
Second, Chompski is not going to put his eggs in Paul's basket, because it will alienate some of his supporters.
Third, Chompski was not disagreeing with anything Ron Paul has said.
Fourth, I agree that there is an obvious contridiction in his final comments.
I honestly have less fear of the progressive leadership than I do of the neoconservative leadership.
The progressives will come around when egalitarianish principles are realized through libertarian principles.
The neocons will simply fight harder because their sole motivation is power.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Chomsky
is a communist.
Wose than a communist, he is a Mossad agent
Remember, it was the soul-searching soldier and army ranger Mr. Tillman, who called Chomsky and proclaimed the war as a fraud and said he was going to come back and expose it. Tillman was then assassinated.
Mossad agent
he's not a mossad agent, he's a triple-agent communist who is a mole for the US government and Israel, but really just for CHINA! that's who he really works for.. He's a chinese commi who works for mossad and the CIA at the same time!
Yes second that...he just blabbers to fool the college students
to believe in a philosophical higher good/nonsense, but when it counts...the silence tells it all.
That immediately confirmed that he is true to his religion through Deceit and Deception than the crap he puts out.
Remember DemocrazyNow - when it came out to stand up to Bush and Wars. And the media drove all that public sentiment to them. DN would tell these people whom to vote and support. When where is DN? - The wars are a raging!
It is not a contradition
As your view of chomskey is incorrect. He does not WANT a NANNY STATE AT ALL. He wants a cooperative. Simply put an Ancarchistic model of socialism. Where the worker are no longer a wage slave. A government where all constraints of hiearchy are gone. A buisness model where you work for the company you own. not some hierarchy imposed on you by threat and force. I compleatly agree that Free Market libertarianism is a perversion of libertarian ism. It makes a worker the slave to the company he works for as much as the liberal does and his nanny state.
What if I don't want to own a
What if I don't want to own a company, and would rather work for a company that someone else owns? Would your ideal society prevent this (presumably by threat and force)? Or, in your ideal society, would free market anarchism be allowed to compete against anarcho syndicism? In other words, in your anarchist society, would individuals who wish to conduct free market transactions (such as selling their own labor) be permitted to do so?
Chomsky's Economics
http://mises.org/daily/1132
thanks for that article. I
thanks for that article. I was always curious about Chomsky, I wanted to understand the economics (specifically how it allocated resources) of this 'libertarian socialism' that he talked about... Well if Mises.org can't find anything comprehensible, then I'm pretty sure I've got better things to do. So thank you for that link.