119 votes

"Chaos" in WA; Attendance Beyond Capacity-Update: Fraud Reported-Google Has Results

SEE UPDATES FOUR thru SIX at end of post for Fraud allegations

Google results---See UPDATE SEVEN at bottom of post

"Chaos!!! thurston county is total chaos! maximum occupancy at both locations hundreds if not thousands waiting to get in"

reported by Ron Paul supporter Matthew Edward Hayward

And Doug Hawks reports from the Redmond caucus: "hundreds caucusing; lots of Ron Paul supporters here"

Photo from inside Redmond caucus:


These reports are from Ron Paul supporters on their Facebook page


UPDATE: Some vote numbers are trickling in now on the Facebook group page above.

Ron Paul seems to be doing great, but those are small votes and very preliminary

UPDATE TWO: Washington TV reporting "high turnout"--- "standing room only" at caucuses statewide. http://www.king5.com/news/GOP-voters-in-Wash-caucus-on-presi...

UPDATE THREE: Seattle Times reporting robocalls "cancelling" caucuses in King County (Seattle) http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017655906_a...

UPDATE FOUR: FRAUD REPORTED!!! From the facebook page above a Ron Paul supporter claims the following: "He (a Romney supporter) was going around collecting each precinct's packet (41st Legislative District, Section B, pooled caucus held at Odle Middle School), and my dad who wore a Romney sticker was asked by them to go help count everything at some woman's house on Mercer Island. Although, they said "they didn't need him anymore" when they saw that I was going to come...I'm not accusing the King Count GOP of anything but it all seems odd."--- This is the second such report on that Facebook page of Ron Paul supporters. The other claimed that voting records were seized and destroyed on site by Romney "officials".

UPDATE FIVE: More allegations of fraud, this from Benton County http://www.dailypaul.com/218058/several-hundred-people-turne...

UPDATE SIX: This is reported in comments to this post: "1500 Voters Turned Away In Kennewick, Washington!

POLITICS: Local GOP apologizes for turning 1,500 away from caucuses in Kennewick
By Michelle Dupler, Tri-City Herald staff writer

Kennewick About 1,500 people were turned away from pooled Benton County caucuses in Kennewick by event organizers after rooms at the Three Rivers Convention Center reached capacity this morning.


UPDATE SEVEN: Google reporting some results now--- http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results/2012/gop-prima...

Here's what to do about Fraud Allegations:

Email producers of Rachel Maddow Show rachel@msnbc

Email Ben Swann bswann@fox19.com

I've contacted the Seattle Times and please feel free to do that too!

Include links to specific news articles and if you wish include links to this post.

Be specific and polite.

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Somehow it worked

While it was brought up that we were beyond maximum occupancy at the Red Lion in Thurston County, where we had over 160 precincts meeting, we continued to fill the room until around 11:15. Some tables had up to four precincts at them with people standing around the table. The tables were in no numerical order and near impossible to locate. At times people were going to the front of the room asking for people from certain tables to come up to the front and pick up their packets as well as to escort people looking for that table back to it. It was a mad house with standing room only.
This was the first time I’m aware of that we ever had two pooled caucuses in Thurston County. We have about 300 precincts and they were put into two locations, the Red Lion and Washington Land Yacht Harbor, Harmony Hall. It worked greatly to the advantage of supporters of all other candidates besides Ron Paul. It made it easy to advertize and easy to get out the vote. Had there been the normal array of caucus locations around the county they would have been much less well attended and all of the Paul supporters would have still been there and been much better organized.
In the end it worked out in our County, could have been better, could have been worse, but for the most part I think we did really well and there were minimal problems. I know of a few cases we lost alternates etc because of mistakes, not necessarily cheating. A lot of people did not know or understand the process. I would not be surprised if we picked up a few the same ways.

Matthew Edward Hayward

thank you

My sentiments exactly! HaHa.

My sentiments exactly! HaHa. The first thing I did was look to see how many days Mel's been on here. You said what I was wondering.


These three stooges need to be shamed into resigning.

I did this with a homeowner association once.

We organized the homeowners over 4 months, and held meetings along the way and came to an agreement about what we did not like about the board of directors of the homeowner association.

At the end of month four all the homeowners showed up at the regular board meeting and the spokesperson for the homeowners stood up and said the homeowners were uniformly dissatisfied with all the board members and we asked that they all resign.

To our great surprise and amazement they all DID..RESIGN ..right there on the spot all within 5 minutes. All because we asked.

I don't know the methodology to use for our hero RON PAUL, but I have an idea...it has to be an idea that grows and spreads. When it grows big enough and gets to the media, action could happen.

Look...we have Wead. Wead already has primed the media for this for us....how? He went on TV and he was grinning and almost laughing that Paul, the "country doctor" is so unassuming and cool that the others don't know what to do about him.

I think at some point Wead can joke that "everyone knows" the other 3 guys are so far down on the pole compared to Ron Paul, that they should be graceful about it and just cede to Ron Paul. It would be the "right thing to do".

So let's start the SMAMING OF THE THREE STOOGES. They know they should resign too. This is ridiculous to NOT HAVE Paul as our esteemed candidate. Romney is a total dork and Santorum is a DORKLET...(not even a full DORK)

So start shaming..and let's start this going.


Did you organize for four months for this?

If not, why not?

FBI, I really don't think


I really don't think anyone needs to, intends to or craves passing muster with you.

Not sure what you mean ....as far as the homeowners we

sent a series of letters to the homeowners, and each letter was followed with a meeting at the clubhouse to gather "steam'.

People vented and became strong in the group. We realized we were not alone and we gained strength from this knowledge.

I think the idea of us doing something outrageous like putting an INVITATION TO RESIGN in the NEW YORK TIMES or the WALL STREET JOURNAL would get attention.

Something like:



In consideration of the fact that our country is steeped in debt, led by spenders and liars, we need the finest leadership in this historic time...from the finest statesman offered to us by our creator...

That fine leader is RON PAUL.

We know in their heart of hearts most would agree he is the leader we all need. With that thought in mind, we humbly ask that you step forward as a leaders yourselves, and resign...please hand the torch to a man who has the strength to take on the FED, and all the issues of the day.

Then stand back, be proud of this service to your country. This would cement your role in the history of this country handing the management over to one who is not afraid to handle it. Peace


Did you put the same level of effort in for RP pre-caucus....

...not signwaving, but identifying actual supporters, organizing, then showing up EARLY to the caucus?

And this is more of a general question, not directed at your particularly.

Had everyone put in the level of effort you put into your HOA, but for RP and specifically to win caucuses, showed up early, volunteered along the way, might the experience have been different?

I am a frustrated newby.

I "found" Ron Paul 2 months ago.

l. I have donated money several times
2. I feel I was responsible for getting the campaign's website to get their CONTACT link to actually work and have them list their CONTACT information online hoping this would not only allow communication, but help present a more professional image for those with actual money to donate.
3. I enrolled in phone from home and one other phone bank for Washington but was not contacted and by the time I figured out I was not going to be contacted it was too late.
4. I went to the Burlingame CA rally, meeting, and liberty caucus meetings.
5. Joined Yahoo group and am an alternate for my area
6. ordered brochures to go door to door.
7 talked a friend of mine into being on the GOP central committee in my area.
8. I posted here for the MARCH 25 MARCH FOR RON PAUL IN LODI CALIFORNIA AT NOON SUNDAY---are you coming?
9. I am trying to learn who and what to do here in California as once again I don't think the central valley is anyone's focus..from what I can tell and this is the RED AREA of California...
10. I am ordering T shirts to stencil for Ron Paul
11. I have identified some guys wo jobs who will sell the T shirts for small cost

I am no great citizen but am learning.


sounds like you are doing alot


Sounds like you are doing great.

If you need any help with tips on the door-to-door or any retail canvassing let me know, that's my area of expertise (I've got to pretty much rule out being there to help in person, due to timing but if you need any help with list acquisition, methodology, it's what I do and I'd be glad to lend whatever knowledge you need).

You'll want current voter lists. The campaign is involved in this work as well, and you won't want to duplicate efforts, but I'm pretty sure it won't be a problem in the Sacramento/San Jaoquin area.

You'll want to brush up on all the particulars of the primary, perhaps consider an absentee voter strategy (which can really be helpful in a state like California).

The entire central valley is a prime area for Ron Paul; of course, the central cities are as well, but for different parts of his message.

Thanks...can you tell me where to get lists you would recomment

of probably voters? Thank you.


This might sound a little

This might sound a little detailed, really it isn't. Main thing is just to call the number in the link below and ask them what you need to do. The rest is kinda an overview I've typed fast and it's probably confused...

In California cheapest and best usually is direct from the County Registrar---it's the primary source of all voter data, so for California lists the county registrars always have the most current info which exists anywhere. http://www.sjcrov.org/contact.html

On that page, you want candidate information and services. Probably it's best if you just call them. Many of the counties nowadays will take your order and payment over the phone, like on a credit/debit card, then run the file and email it to you...or, if the file is too large for email, they'll send it on CD.

Most counties in California have their own rules and rates, usually there's a minimum (maybe something like 25.00) against a per record cost (meaning per voter record).

In California you can choose what you want in the file. For "probable voters" you will want them to include the voter history. Make sure you ask for that as sometimes they assume you don't want it. It increases file size alot, but you always can cut it out and create smaller files when you don't need that.

Voter history will show you all elections in which someone has voted going back several elections. Super Voters (those most likely to vote) generally means those you can see vote in every election, even the small local elections.

Of course you will want Party affiliation.

It might be worthwhile to you to order ONLY Republican voters (when you order you select what it is you want, they'll usually show you a list of what fields are available, or you can just call them and have someone answer your questions).

If you order by Republicans only, that would greatly decrease the number of voters, since approx 30-40% will be Republican in any given area. However, it's best to KNOW how a person is registered because MANY voters simply lie to you...it's really quite dramatic, a very high percentage of voters lie about which party they are in...if they know you are Republican, they'll say they are...don't ask me why, I've never figured that one out and don't really want to :)

Assuming you get all voters (and I think that'll be best for you), that makes it much easier to ask voters to change their affiliation before the deadline, which is in May sometime, so they can vote in the GOP primary (if you are doing registrations, you can get the cards for free from the Registrar...they'll limit how many they give you at one time---most counties don't require you to take any classes if all you are doing is running a basic registration or canvass).

Lodi is small, so the list shouldn't be too costly.

Don't try walking without a list, it makes no sense. More than half the eligible people out there are not registered to vote, and many who aren't will lie to you about being registered.

You'll need to state that the information you are purchasing is to be used for political purposes only---there's a form they ask you to sign attesting to that. The form will ask you how you plan to use the list. Just write in quick things like Canvass; fundraising (if you even might do it)and voter registration. That should be enough.

You'll probably want to form a PAC with California (no cost, and you can do it online and over the phone and by mail). You also might choose to do an FEC PAC (a federal PAC, you choose which type---I think you might want a basic non-connected PAC, which means you can support or oppose federal candidates and that you are in no way in cahoots with the official campaign, don't exchange PAC to PAC information with them; it's alright if you personally and they have some contact, it's just that your 2 PAC's can't coordinate activities). Again, no cost for filing that Federal PAC. If you file the federal PAC with FEC in California you'll have to file a copy with San Jaoquin and with the Secty of State, maybe even with one or more other counties. It's weird, but they require that.

The PAC registration makes it easier for you to order lists, just in case you run into some officious bureaucrat, most of the county registrar people tend to be helpful though, so it's not likely to be a problem...AND, it keeps you "honest" with the law; you want to avoid doing anything which might cause a complaint from someone and if you aren't technically within the law you could be fined.

IF any money is being spent on behalf of a federal candidate you are required to file.

You probably won't have any problem ordering the list if you haven't already filed as a PAC and received confirmation and a PAC number.

Assuming either you or someone you know has some idea of how to work with database files, you'll probably just want to order a standard delimited file (.csv) because then you can do anything with it.

If you want it already into Excel or Access, they probably can do that for you too (just depends on how that county operates---the last time I dealt with any voter lists from that county was many years ago, I got it the same day by going in person to the Registrar's office early; I wanted hard copy and they printed it out for me within hours; can't say it'll work that way for you, and you definitely don't want to get hard copy.)

You could make your walk-lists using several different bits of software. Excel most people have, any spreadsheet will work fine.

To make a walklist out of any spreadsheet program, all you really need to do is sort by the address field, which will line up every voter who is at each home. You also can sort by precinct. Most canvassing is done by precinct. So, you first could sort by precinct and then by physical address within each precinct, that will give you a bunch of small files, each being one precinct, each in walkable order.

I usually do it with precinct maps; in California most counties make those available pretty cheap too.

There are vendors who can provide all of this, some even have online ordering and instant access but the prices are much higher and the data often is very, very old. So it's not usually a recommended way to do it.

You also could use something like GoogleEarth for streetmaps to get your maps, which wouldn't be exactly and only the precinct streets, but it wouldn't matter much because each canvasser would know the precinct by the list, so you just print out as close as possible to only those streets showing on Google.

Wow...thank you------this should be it's own thread as I am

sure many others could use this information.....


there's always more to do

There's alot more to know; things like absentee ballot, which in itself can be a thread.

Door to Door and telephone canvassing opens up a whole new world in how to Get Out The Vote.

Identifying supporters, getting them to change registration and making sure they vote, in California, are very doable things...they are extremely labor intensive. A town like Lodi can be knocked out pretty good, but the time grows short.

Try seeing what San Joaquin people already have organized for Ron Paul and consider working with them.

If nothing else, try to make Lodi a model for how to do it next time.

There's very little time left for Ron Paul in California, but it'd be nice to see some people follow the model of how to work precincts...to date, few have tried, they watch television and believe that's where the campaign is happening, they watch debates and think that stuff is far more important than it really is.

yeah...and maybe, just MAYBE the RON PAUL CAMPAIGN

can explain to me WHY there is only a northern and southern California coordinator. That's really stupid leaving out the RED VOTERS in the CENTRAL VALLEY.

is a state unto itself and has it's own identity.

In fact the Central Valley is sick and tired of being lumped in with the coast. They don't think like the coast and they don't vote like the coast.

We are being ignored and the Central Valley is tired of being ignored not only by the lefties but now even the righties.


When this is all said and done

and the last ballot has been cast in the GOP primary, Ron Paul needs to ask Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum for a private meeting and sit down and talk business. If Dr. Paul can't be the nominee, the least he can do is find some fiscal common ground with one of them and dump his delegates on whichever one is willing to come closest to him on foreign policy (Obviously a Congressional declaration of war before any military action would be the first litmus test.). Mitt Romney CANNOT win!!! The Fox/GOP establishment is blatantly cheating just to give their chosen loser (like McAmnesty) the nomination. Even if Dr. Paul fails to secure the nomination, Mitt Romney MUST LOSE!!!!!

"The truth is that neither British nor American imperialism was or is idealistic. It has always been driven by economic or strategic interests." - Charlie Reese

God damn it. You REALLY need

God damn it. You REALLY need to stop using phrases like "fraud reported" with shit like this.

Fraud ACCUSED is what it is. Turning people away becuase of hte fire code is not fraud and there is ZERO indication that everyone turned away was a Ron PAul supporter.

All this childish whining EVERY STATE does not help.

Believe it or not, Ron Paul has NOT won the last 65 states in a row over the last 50 months! But there LITERALLY are people on this board that would claim he has.

Here 4 days ...

I think the fraud may be you.


I just looked at your profile and saw the list of your top recent comments:

NO WAY! If there is one thing
What are you talking about?
Seriously? They couldn't come
No...the problem is, you
There would have to be so
Do you HEAR yourself some
Impossible to say. Not
Wow...you can to simple 8th
Honestly...we need a
You are either a troll..or a

Bro, you are NEGATIVE! I don't even have to click to view those comments. Even the "Subject" of your comments are overwhelmingly negative. If you expect to receive respect, you've got to offer it.

"He did not come into the world to condemn it, but to save it." - John 3:17

"Well, you know it's like I always say 'it ain't government work if you don't have to do it twice.'" - Jerry Gergich

Have we found a GOP hack? LoL

Have we found a GOP hack? LoL ...

Disenfranchising voters who've arrived on time isn't a smart move even for a dumb GOP seeking ANY excuse to defraud candidates of potential votes, especially Ron. I'm quite sure an alternate procedure could have been instituted to comply with any fire code withOUT turning ANY potential voter away. Personally, I'm beginning to dislike the GOP's leadership as much as my distaste for the Democratic leadership. That's a pretty big pill for the GOP to swallow as I'm probably not alone in my sentiment by a long shot. ;)

they hurt everyone

Any GOP people involved in disenfranchising voters hurt each candidate and all those working toward a nomination and hoping to have a strong candidate in the general.

They turn-off those who they will need as allies in the general.

It's fundamental you just never want to cause people to slam the door in your face because of what went on in the primary/caucus fights.

@Mel... If you wanted to


If you wanted to change it, the phrase would be "alleged fraud", not that I am a grammar Nazi or anything.

get some grammar


Learn to read.

What the bleep is "fraud accused" supposed to mean to anyone? It means nothing.

I said fraud reported specifically because it hasn't been proven and had not been proven at the time I was receiving reports. People were reporting what in their words amounted to fraud, their word, not mine.

I received reports of fraud, so I said "fraud reported".

So, I did not use it as my word, I said "reported" since they'd reported it...they had not "accused" it because a person never can be said to have "accused" anything unless perhaps if they live in your neighborhood and speak that special language.

you need to take your 3 days

you need to take your 3 days and 2 hours and move along troll.

Now why am I not surprised at

Now why am I not surprised at all. I noticed that we have been stuck at 83% of precincts reporting for what seems like an hour or more. It went from 62% to 83% pretty quickly, but stalled at that number. I knew then that something was rotten.

Larry in North Carolina
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to not support Ron Paul!

It's the standard pattern


As has been well reported, LBJ lost his first race for US Senate because his campaign reported all numbers early...they had their people in counties report early...that meant the opponents sat back and eventually knew how many numbers to report from their counties.

He later won an election because he learned to sit back until he knew how many votes he needed.

That's what is happening here, to some degree at least it is tried, in each state, whenever there is at least one crook on the loose.

There are many crooks on the loose.

That is the standard pattern when RP is doing well/winning

Stalled Count=Cooking the vote count

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Well, people help us get California on March 25 Sunday...bring

your signs to Lodi to the Woodbridge Inn. Come at noon. Just drive toward Lodi and when you get there ask anyone where the Woodbridge Inn is.

I don't think anyone out there knows CENTRAL CALIFORNIA even exists. Do any of you know that CENTRAL CALIFORNIA IS A RED STATE inside of a blue state? There are MILLIONS OF RED VOTERS and I cannot get anyone's attention to come to Manteca or Modesto. Modesto even has an airport. Modesto is an hour from San Jose, a half hour from Stockton, an hour from Sacramento and where is the campaign going? TO FRESNO WHERE THE IRS IS.....

Can you please start thinking about coming to Lodi on March 25? Look---Lodi is where there are a lot of wineries for those of you who need to know.....we can walk to Lodi Lake.
There probably is not a nicer town for a walk for Ron Paul.

Meet at noon. Just show up. You will have a good time.


I'll be there, Karen

1 hour away in Sacramento.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. ~J. Swift

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh for

Sacramento! We love ya.