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Super Tuesday Open Thread

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Part 2

What we really want here is a contested convention where there are two pitches vying for the future of the party. Santorum, the big-government pro-war evangelical. Or Paul, the small-government non-interventionist libertarian. Romney's message of inevitability will be disproven by the fact the convention is contested, as will Gingrich's "big ideas" and "contrast with Obama" because both Santorum and Paul have a far more articulate contrast. You will see four speeches, and only 2 will be coherent.

For this strategy to work it's important that Paul supporters continue working hard to become, and elect, delegates at the state level. We want the floor of the convention chanting "Ron Paul." We want chaos. Sad as it is, most Republicans don't even particularly care about the message of the candidate because they are so fixated on beating Obama. The proof of this is despite gaffe after gaffe Romney is doing as well as he is. I'm tempted to say that Romney is Obama-lite, but rather I think Obama is Romney-lite. Literally their policies are 95% identical on the important issues. So clearly to the uninformed voters who think their obligation within our Republic is showing up to vote and doing nothing else, policy positions don't matter. So the fact that a lot of the base think Paul's policies are "out there" won't really matter in the end.

The point is that case that has to be made at the convention is that Paul is electable in a general election against Obama. This is demonstrated with delegates. Nobody is going to remember or care who won this or that straw poll. When is the last time you heard Iowa mentioned as a feather in Santorum's cap? The 24 hour news cycle makes these things sound like the most important thing in the world, until the following week where it's completely forgotten.

So calm down, and get back to work. :)

Calm down guys

Paul is probably 2nd in delegates at this point. Winning the beauty contests is good for morale, but it's not strictly necessary. The path to victory is a contested convention, so Santorum wins aren't necessarily bad either. The more muddled this thing gets the better. We don't want the party to rally around Romney. We want to go to the convention with 4 candidates and no clear winner. If it comes to a contested convention, and pledged delegates get to vote for whom they want, Paul could very realistically have a majority of delegates.

There isn't going to be a "white knight" and they're not going to bring in someone unvetted by the primary process. Chaos is good, because Paul is the only candidate who can articulate a message other than "well, I can win elections! I can beat Obama!" A muddy convention destroys that argument.

Neither Romney nor Gingrich supporters are particularly passionate. Romney/Gingrich delegates are not going to fight for their candidate. They're just going to get behind whomever everyone else gets behind, and they are perfectly capable of changing their mind at the last minute. Santorum supporters are passionate, but they are also evangelicals and the Republican base has always been skeptical of the evangelical wing of the party. Most people don't want to make the presidential election about birth control.

What we really want here is a contested convention where there are two pitches vying for the future of the party. Santorum, the big-government pro-war evangelical. Or Paul, the small-government non-interventionist libertarian. Romney's message of inevitability will be disproven by the fact the convention is contested, as will Gingrich's "big ideas" and "contrast with Obama" because both Santorum and Paul have a far more articulate contrast. You will see four speeches, and only 2 will be coherent.

For this strategy to work it's important that Paul supporters continue working hard to become, and elect, delegates at the state level. We want the floor of the convention chanting "Ron Paul." We want chaos. Sad as it is, most Republicans don't even particularly care about the message of the candidate because they are so fixated on beating Obama. The proof of this is despite gaffe after gaffe Romney is doing as well as he is. I'm tempted to say that Romney is Obama-lite, but rather I think Obama is Romney-lite. Literally their policies are 95% identical on the important issues. So clearly to the uninformed voters who think their obligation within our Republic is showing up to vote and doing nothing else, policy positions don't matter. So the fact that a lot of the base think Paul's policies are "out there" won't really matter in the end.

The point is that case that has to be made at the convention is that Paul is electable in a general election against Obama. This is demonstrated with delegates. Nobody is going to remember or care who won this or that straw poll. When is the last time you heard Iowa mentioned as a feather in Santorum's cap? The 24 hour news cycle makes these things sound like the most important thing in the world, until the following week where it's completely forgotten.

So calm down, and get back to work. :)

Believe in the cause, not the results!!

Every minute you spend fighting for this cause or any other positive cause thats selfless, becomes the glue that solidifies positive change and your own self worth. I have never been more fulfilled in my life than in the moments that I gave everything I got to help this movement and I have never been more hopeful to know that we will take this country and this world back from the evil empire. You don't need a majority to change a country, our founding fathers did it with 1/3 support in the Revolution. We are still discovering our selves and our power, like Kids riding their bike on 2 wheels for the first time, they don't do it so they can ride on 2 wheels, they do it because it makes them feel good. So don't give up or stop doing what youre doing, this is what they count on. We were born with a purpose to help and awaken others. I know this or you would not be here reading this, if it wasn't so. Being part of this movement has helped me be fulfilled, where before I was empty. Once you find that, it becomes your way of life and it doesn't stop just because they count on it.

Like Gandhi said "be the change you want to see in the world".

Does this look right to y'all?

I tweet and re-tweet about Ron Paul every day. Almost all the tweets I read are about him. I know in the past two days, it has doubled or tripled.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/santorum-wins-the-day-on...

Canyon County, Idaho

Gingrich got dropped out in round one, Ron Paul was third in round one. Romney took it on round 2. It was Idaho's first GOP caucus, and I must say it was pretty much a fuster cauc.... The advantage of the caucus appears to be the ability to disenfranchise voters en masse. However, the "counting" (they actually weighed the ballot boxes, we voted with coins) was done on screen and appeared to be legit.
NO DELEGATES WERE NAMED IN IDAHO, although we are essentially winner take all now. And, that puts a nice dab of icing on the disenfranchised cake.
The good news is the determination of the RP supporters. Good people stepping up and running for many offices. We have to win, so we will find a way.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

The worst of both worlds

So you come to support your candidate and find that you now have to vote for someone else and that your original vote won't even be reported. Plus, even if your candidate (or replacement candidate) wins the caucus they may get nothing because another candidate won a bunch of other counties.

So you get all the tactical voting nonsense of a caucus with the powerlessness of a primary. And you don't even get to elect delegates to represent you at the next level.

But of course the Idaho GOP designed it to give Romney 32 delegates, meet the proportionality rules of the RNC, and be cheaper than a primary since the state wouldn't pay for a separate earlier presidential primary. Given the goals, the did a fantastic job. Too bad the goal wasn't to reflect the will of the voters.

national delegates are bound by the ID caucus

even though the specific delegates weren't named today.

Disagree With Most Everyone

I respectfully disagree with most everyone's attitude here, whether positive or negative. I support RP to the end as most others, but I do not agree that there is cause for optimism after Ron Paul. A man like Ron Paul only comes once in a generation. Gary Johnson is a little OK, but neither he nor Rand is as firmly Constitutionally principled as Ron Paul is.

Things will go just like they did after Goldwater or JFK or any other presidential option for restoring dejure American principles.

50% of the population have an IQ less than 100. The "herd" has been around forever (the term was even used at the Constitutional Convention), and they will always be on the side of the elite establishment, because they will always follow the shiny and glittering propaganda of the elite like fish after a lure. Certain things require a certain degree of intelligence, and there is no way around that. The herd will never be capable of understanding the principles that weave the fabric of freedom and prosperity. Meanwhile, millions of foreigners are dumped across the country each year, further diluting those that actually give a damn.

NOTHING will change until those in govt fear the people, which we make more difficult daily, especially in these wars against terror and drugs, etc. Democracies simply do not work. How can any society advance based upon 100IQ? As John Basil Barnhill said in 1914:

"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."

1787, Thomas Jefferson -- in France, in a letter to his friend William Smith:

Wonderful is the effect of impudent & persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independent 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order. I hope in God this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted ...

Jefferson to Madison, January 30, 1787 on Shay's rebellion:

I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. .... It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.

--

Sorry, human nature isn't changing for RP supporters. The nice & easy way has its limits, and this has been so since the dawn of time. When we are ready to put our lives on the line for original principles of prosperity/freedom/justice (or life/liberty/property), then ... and only then, is their "hope & change". The only thing aristocrats and their servants fear is Element 82. That's what Thomas Jefferson said anyway.

Huh?

Iq isn't even a reliable marker for intelligence but I bet you can't back up your assertion anyway

I disagree with you on most of your points.

First off, some of the MOST dedicated Liberty supporters that I know are first generation immigrants or second generation Americans who have heard some stories. I know that you are likely referring to the "illegal immigrants" who illegally cross the border with Mexico, but allow me to remind you that these people are in search for liberty more than you will EVER know. I would like to ask you to avoid discounting the fact that most of these people cross the border in the desert on foot for hundreds of miles risking theirs and the lives of their families in search for the little freedom left in America! I blame them for breaking the law, but I blame the government for destroying the Mexican agriculture with NAFTA. Read a bit please before pointing fingers!

Secondly, this movement is following the leader Ron Paul, but allow me to remind you that Ron Paul is 76 years old. This man has my utmost respect, and I hope he lives to at least 120! But this movement will continue to grow worldwide even after Ron Paul.

Thirdly, America has long lost its way. This election is more than certainly very critical, but do not fool yourself that the establishment will forfeit the continuous control grabs just because the people voted for Dr. Paul. THey will do everything to keep their power and to want to grab even more.

Though I disagree with most all that you said, I agree with the quotes made by Thomas Jefferson - a man who truly understood that freedoms were about single allowances in the context of tyranny, and that liberty was the basic matter of existence.

Another quote from the same time was "Give me liberty or give me death." It was in fact used in the Ottoman Empire territories during the liberating movement in the mid-19th century - not even a 100 years after the Revolution and the US Constitution.

So, please try to chill and focus your energy in something more positive. This is a lifelong fight (fyi).

Voted your post up. Your passion is admirable.

There are plenty of smart

There are plenty of smart people supporting the status quo. Heck, with some notable exceptions (Bush, Biden, Perry, etc.), I think a lot of the establishment clowns themselves are smart people. That doesn't mean they aren't power-hungry, corrupt, misguided, etc.

Like I have been ....

saying all along .... Paul has HUGE crowds everywhere and all he can do is win third place or fourth place ? And Santorum wins a few states ? .... I guess the local mobsters from the city were I grew up in when I was a kid was right . One of the mob guys always told me " Kid , everything you see isn't on the up & up . It's all a scam " . Just like these primaries .

Ron Paul is losing

Because he's a crackpot, no fraud .

Like ....

the three liberal stooges , Mitt , Newt and Rick are normal ? lol give me break .

Come-on, Alaska!!!!!!!....

So far RP's in 2nd place, only 6% behind Romney... (12.6% reporting)

We are closing in on Romney in alaska

We are less than 200 votes behind and we are at 25 percent

looks like ohio was accurate

exit polling of all republican voters that said they would only vote for their candidate: 10%. ron paul got 9.3% today. That 9.3% could be huge come November if the establishment refuses to let him have the nomination.

I am running out of states I

I am running out of states I can move to at an alarming pace with these type of results... However I will continue to support Ron Paul, so more signs up tomorrow (So Cal).

Murrieta, Ca

Werd!

Time to let our voice be heard... 500,000 Paulions going to Tampa ? It would be good for the republic!

Veteran -Dad -Artist

Iceland is looking pretty good right now, lol!

might need to get Rosetta Stone lessons

RP R3VOLution

Carnie Games

I wonder how many of people are aware of how some of these caucuses were being conducted tonight?

In some places (including the entire state of Idaho) they setup little 6 ft x 6ft square booths surrounded by black curtains. Inside are 4 buckets, each with a different candidates name on it. Outside is a man with a bucket of tokens. He hands each person a token as they enter the booth. They deposit the token in the bucket of their choosing.

Besides the obvious, someone walking into the booth with a hundred tokens in their pocket and dumping them into the shills bucket, there’s a 100 other ways that someone could take advantage of the blatant stupidity and manipulate the results.

Why isn’t everyone demanding a fair election process free of criminal conduct? How about we use paper ballots, drop them in a box and then count them where they stand, right in front of every Citizen who cares to view the process? Who’s responsibility is it to insure that our elections are transparent, honest, & public?.

Remember who did not get invited to the AIPAC Debate

All 3 of the other candidates gave speeches today at the AIPAC convention. You figure out what is going on and who has bought this election. Spell it Red Shield(Rothschilds Euro Division and Rockerfeller US Division.) Every other candidate except Ron Paul is funded by the Jewish Banker Illuminati Cabel. It is only Obvious. The election is fixed. CNN Declared Victory in Georgia for Gingrich 20 seconds after the voting closed. you can find the exit poll results online in the morning. The exit polls were on less than 1/40th of the entire vote. It is statistically impossible to do. Also match Faux News and CNBC and Politico for the number of people polled at exit polls they will be all the same numbers showing that they were all pulling information from one source. What source? The one that fixed the elections.

Pure truth by garyw

Through 90 percent counting by Rothschild's es&s vote rigging machines and vote rigging media.

Pure truth by garyw

Through 90 percent counting by Rothschild's es&s vote rigging machines and vote rigging media.

exit polling

maybe it only appears to be accurate because they fix the results. I witnessed a number of people say no thanks when approached by CNN/FOX workers to be exit polled today. Yet the exit polling always appears to be right on the dot.

We had a real exit poll

in Fairbanks, Alaska and it was close to ther real results. We just need more real exit polls. And post the results here. I understand Liberty PAC is doing just that.

Liberty is on the march, tyranny is on the run!

The vote is rigged

Go here for more clarity on what is really happening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OynCgwmD-HM

This is why we have to band together and become delegates in every place that we can. If we have to tell them we are a Romney supporter to get it, so be it. This is a R#VOLUTION and we cannot give up. Delegates is where we can defeat the elite and their power.

I'm not sure if y'all know, but

Kucinch lost in his District primary tonight and is now unseated. He's finally free of the Democratic Party.

WOW...

.

8 Buddy Rommer 576

8 Buddy Rommer
576 Gingrich
888 Mittens
989 Thomas Jefferson!!
1327 Frothy.

Kootenai County ID